Trainz-build numbers below 3.7 are no longer supported....

[amigacooke]

And if you strike a bug, and we say that it's fixed in a patch that you refuse to install, we will refuse to help. Why? Because we have fixed it, you just refuse to use the fix...

And yes, on the helpdesk, we DO strike this exact issue, although less often now that the digital download editions get updated to include the latest updates. We've actually had this policy, at least as far as the helpdesk is concerned, for years (note, if it's not fixed in a SP, I will either look into the issue, or try to fix it; but if it's fixed in a SP or is likely to be resolved by updating, then you will be told to update), as in at least the 6 years I've been working on the helpdesk...

Regards
Zec

But this is a different case. In this case the community is helping (mostly ;-) N3V and each other by providing content to enhance (mostly) the product. If you refuse that help without a perceived good reason then without doubt content creators will be unhappy and consider their options.

 

[johnwhelan]

I haven't had much time for Trainz lately, so haven't realised how things have been developing. I will update these assets now, it shouldn't take long.

The problem is they have been included with S&C DLC, so if the S&C DLC is part of TS12 SP1+ and the DRM system doesn't manage a call home then anything that uses them is locked out. Updating them would do no good as TS12 looks to see if there is a DLC version first and if there is and DRM is failing they get locked out.

Cheerio John

 

[ish6]

Good Morning All ---

Tony's response:
Open Letter to the Trainz Content Creator Community
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/content.php?110-Open-Letter-to-the-Trainz-Content-Creator-Community


Ish

 

[n8phu]

That's pretty clear and concise...good letter

 

[peterwise]

Well said Ish, information, information !

Another idea would be to discuss planned changes with user representatives and take into account the feedback, hopefully then avoiding this sort of mess.

Chris

It seems to me that there is becoming a need for a Trainz User Council (online of course). It should not be too big, should consult online (e.g. on a private forum), should be heavy on DLS content creators (especially route creators), have representatives from N3V and from third party (DLC) creators and should be composed of forward-looking delegates, who have the interests of the whole Trainz community at heart. This is important as the Council should be problem solving to see the way forward, to isolate and solve the issues of today and those expected in the future. It is most important that delegates do not grump away about the past or what Auran/N3V did, is doing or may do in the future. It would need to be useful to N3V in making decisions that are of benefit to the Trainz community. On the other hand, while N3V should try to find ways of taking on board any recommendations (in the interests of the Trainz community), yet, as a business with commercial interests at stake, N3V should not feel in any way bound to take any recommendations on board.

I feel very unsure as to how such a group should be formed as democratic methods (alone) might well cause a number of nay-sayers to be elected. It is my experience that a small number of nay-sayers in a committee or group can adversely affect the decision-making ability of the group. At worst it can destroy the group completely as more tolerant and thoughtful members leave the group, leaving only those that want to endlessly argue among themselves. Readers will note that something similar happens on the Trainz forums from time to time. The important thing is that all delegates agree that their first principle is the well-being of the Trainz Community.

As Tony pointed out the well-being of the Trainz Community is also on paramount importance to N3V (for commercial as well as other reasons). No company or franchise can prosper if it does not keep its users or fan-base happy. As example, see what happened to the Star Trek franchise when Viacom took over from Paramount. They told fans what they could an couldn't do, encouraged big and expensive (and fee-paying) commercial conventions over fan-based conventions, stopped fans showing videos and DvDs in their own clubs and so decimated the fan base, the franchise, the upcoming new series. It's simple. Companies need happy users and happy users need a successful company. It's a symbiosis!

Peter.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
As someone who has been with Trainz from the very beginning and was thinking of buying Trainz New Era on its release date by download, all I can say after reading this thread is that my purchase will now be postponed until the autumn at the earliest and possibly well into next year.

I never donated to the kickstarter fundraising campaign as I do not believe in giving anybody something for nothing unless it is a charity. The foregoing is something I have certainly not regretted as I watched this whole development process “trundle along” putting me in the mind of a British class 125 HST service running very late with just its rear power car operating (LOL)

Having seen the some of the latest videos of Trains New Era on YouTube and elsewhere I have to say that T:ANE looks far from the “something truly awesome” that was promised at the start of the above process. The N3V management have also stated that the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] of May retail release date should be viewed as just a station stop on the new era journey with much more to come in the future (or words to that affect). However, to someone like myself as a prospective purchaser, how many patches will the journey continuation bring about before we arrive at the “something truly awesome” as in my experience trainz patches have never been the easiest things to download and install.

I am also in complete agreement with the following snip taken from a posting in this thread by John Citroen.

Now this also brings up another thing. Why does the program have to become so Geeky? I mean seriously, folks at N3V. Not everyone is technically inclined here. Trainz used to be a fun program for train enthusiasts to use.
John

The past 12 months has been some of the busiest in my long life so I have had little time for Trainz and building my North Devon route. I started that creation in Trainz classic edition, moved it to Trainz 10 with little trouble and eventually into Trainz 12 with a great deal of difficulty on that occasion. In line with Johns above comments each move has brought with it increased complication in getting rid of asset errors and faults or even obtaining from the DLS content that would run without a huge amount of finding Kuids etc.

I am a straightforward computer user and always will be. I have no wish to become a script writer or techno-geek. At the end of a long working day I want to be able to sit down and find enjoyment and relaxation in my route building. The foregoing should not have to include long searches on the forum or technical answers to problems or downloading assets which appear as faulty the minute they are opened.

At this point in time Trainz New Era appears to be far too complicated in its hardware and software operation. That will not be suitable for me and I expect very many others. Therefore delaying the purchase of T:ANE until all the above is sorted out would seem to be a reasonable course of action.

Bill

 

[StarFoxFan11]

From a marketing standpoint, this is a terrible idea. I mean, look at me. I've been stuck with TS09 for years and haven't upgraded. Granted, I plan on upgrading this year, but now I don't know if I want to because of this. It kills off a lot of content creators and it makes new ones weary of creating content. In other words, N3V has just dug its own grave. Good job N3V, not listening to its users since 2005.

 

[dragonharh]

I'm going to talk to the others guys ( RCW Staff ) and see if we shod close down there be one less content creator to worry about.

 

[amigacooke]

From a marketing standpoint, this is a terrible idea. I mean, look at me. I've been stuck with TS09 for years and haven't upgraded. Granted, I plan on upgrading this year, but now I don't know if I want to because of this. It kills off a lot of content creators and it makes new ones weary of creating content. In other words, N3V has just dug its own grave. Good job N3V, not listening to its users since 2005.

Your post is possibly misinformed, this thread already contains a link to N3V's response, I suggest looking at it.

 

[StarFoxFan11]

Must have missed it. :/ Whoopsie! What page is it on?

 

[dnevans8]

Must have missed it. :/ Whoopsie! What page is it on?

There is a link in post 243 on this page.

 

[sniper297]

Biggest complaint most content creators have is "moving goalposts". That cliche doesn't begin to describe what happens with Trainz. Trainz is more like trying to shoot basketballs at a hoop nailed to the back of a truck driven by a drunken gorilla weaving back and forth then making sudden left turns into driveways and crashing through fences.

I've been modding and creating addons for computer games for over 30 years, and I have a technical background - I can troubleshoot machines and circuits I've never seen before provided I have a known good example - one that is working correctly to compare the faulty one to.

Warning: Required tag 'full-throttle-speed' was missing and has been set to default.
Warning: Required tag 'throttle-notches' was missing and has been set to default.

That's just one of the many I've run across, got a new patch which changes the standard, zero documentation on what it means, where or how to add it in content manager, and no known good example to study to see how it's supposed to be done. Change in format for splines, no docs or announcement, just suddenly discovering that what always worked before no longer works and we're left to figure it out ourselves. Build number X.1 is no longer supported, you can only upload build number X.2 or higher now, but guess what? The bridge spline with more than 2 tracks will not work in X.2, have to wait for 6 months or a year for X.3 and hope that that build will recognize 3 track bridge splines.

What would be helpful to content creators;

1. Thorough testing of build X.2 to make sure everything works correctly before obsoleting X.1.

2. Advanced warning of obsolescence with documentation of the differences, including what the creator needs to do in order to get rid of all the error and warning flags for the new build.

3. Examples to go by - Have Zec or somebody clone a build X.1 loco/spline/whatever is affected and update to error free X.2, upload to the DLS so we can download and see what an error free X.2 build addon actually looks like. Absent some form of coherent documentation that would be the most helpful, worst trouble I had getting 2010 content to work in 12 was errors and warnings about something wrong or missing, with no explanation or example of what exactly the error checker WOULD consider to be okay. Ludicrous to have the error checker complaining about a missing or incorrect tag when there is NO EXISTING MODEL ANYPLACE ON EARTH that has the required tag! If you're going to change the programming of the error checker to add something, you MUST have tested to see that SOMETHING meets the new requirements? Then upload it, so we at least have SOMETHING to go by!

Most of us can live with changes provided they're moving in predictable directions and include at least some instructions on what we need to do, I haven't seen that in Trainz yet.

 

[clam1952]

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/content.php?110-Open-Letter-to-the-Trainz-Content-Creator-Community

 

[JCitron]

The problem is they have been included with S&C DLC, so if the S&C DLC is part of TS12 SP1+ and the DRM system doesn't manage a call home then anything that uses them is locked out. Updating them would do no good as TS12 looks to see if there is a DLC version first and if there is and DRM is failing they get locked out.

Cheerio John

This is the exact issue I ran into two days in a row. I have the S&C and Murchison 2 DLC and have used some content from there long before it was including in the validated form. Now that the same assets are part of the untouchable packs, if anything goes tits up on the server, my routes are full of missing dependencies. The same goes for any other routes that are downloaded and have the same content because even if the author used the free version, the program will look a the DLC version that's installed as that seems to overwrite the free one.

This is an issue that needs to be addressed but I have to think this one out and will post it as a separate topic.

John

 

[JCitron]

Biggest complaint most content creators have is "moving goalposts". That cliche doesn't begin to describe what happens with Trainz. Trainz is more like trying to shoot basketballs at a hoop nailed to the back of a truck driven by a drunken gorilla weaving back and forth then making sudden left turns into driveways and crashing through fences.

I've been modding and creating addons for computer games for over 30 years, and I have a technical background - I can troubleshoot machines and circuits I've never seen before provided I have a known good example - one that is working correctly to compare the faulty one to.

Warning: Required tag 'full-throttle-speed' was missing and has been set to default.
Warning: Required tag 'throttle-notches' was missing and has been set to default.

That's just one of the many I've run across, got a new patch which changes the standard, zero documentation on what it means, where or how to add it in content manager, and no known good example to study to see how it's supposed to be done. Change in format for splines, no docs or announcement, just suddenly discovering that what always worked before no longer works and we're left to figure it out ourselves. Build number X.1 is no longer supported, you can only upload build number X.2 or higher now, but guess what? The bridge spline with more than 2 tracks will not work in X.2, have to wait for 6 months or a year for X.3 and hope that that build will recognize 3 track bridge splines.

What would be helpful to content creators;

1. Thorough testing of build X.2 to make sure everything works correctly before obsoleting X.1.

2. Advanced warning of obsolescence with documentation of the differences, including what the creator needs to do in order to get rid of all the error and warning flags for the new build.

3. Examples to go by - Have Zec or somebody clone a build X.1 loco/spline/whatever is affected and update to error free X.2, upload to the DLS so we can download and see what an error free X.2 build addon actually looks like. Absent some form of coherent documentation that would be the most helpful, worst trouble I had getting 2010 content to work in 12 was errors and warnings about something wrong or missing, with no explanation or example of what exactly the error checker WOULD consider to be okay. Ludicrous to have the error checker complaining about a missing or incorrect tag when there is NO EXISTING MODEL ANYPLACE ON EARTH that has the required tag! If you're going to change the programming of the error checker to add something, you MUST have tested to see that SOMETHING meets the new requirements? Then upload it, so we at least have SOMETHING to go by!

Most of us can live with changes provided they're moving in predictable directions and include at least some instructions on what we need to do, I haven't seen that in Trainz yet.

Jim,

The Wiki has gotten much better than this over the past couple of years, however, I agree this needs to be addressed. This is also the result of the poor communication we've been kvetching about here, which we hope are finally addressed. When TS12 SP1 came out about a year and half ago, the SH hit the fan in a big way because these gorilla driven goal posts! N3V conceded and apologized for not giving us better communication of the changes, and hopefully this will become better.

Examples... There are some code examples already on the wiki, but they don't all have explanations of what they do, and in some cases the documentation is written in "programmer" making the explanation so obtuse it may as well as be written in "chicken scratches".

John

 

[peterwhite]

This is the exact issue I ran into two days in a row. I have the S&C and Murchison 2 DLC and have used some content from there long before it was including in the validated form. Now that the same assets are part of the untouchable packs, if anything goes tits up on the server, my routes are full of missing dependencies. The same goes for any other routes that are downloaded and have the same content because even if the author used the free version, the program will look a the DLC version that's installed as that seems to overwrite the free one.

This is an issue that needs to be addressed but I have to think this one out and will post it as a separate topic.

John

I agree entirely. All I want to do is run trains but instead I am sat here looking at this...............

Not a happy chappy

Peter

 

[nexusdj]

Welcome to the world of the SP1 user !!
Had to endure a 1500 asset verification last night and today its just finishing a 15,000 one !!

We've been complaining about it for months on here , only to be told on many occasions that its not a problem that they can replicate !!
So according to them you must be doing something wrong like the rest of us who have to suffer it on a regular basis .

It happens at least twice a month , more if the DRM server starts playing up . It's the only program I know that gets paranoid , Quick I sense a glitch in the internet connection to the mothership , Must check assets even though I checked them yesterday !!!!!

 

[peterwhite]

Nearly two hours now and still going............

What have I done to deserve this????

Peter

 

[clam1952]

Grrrrrrrr, just did a search for Installed + out of date and guess what 9604 Assets remaining to validate.

Very odd as it started with 921 then 3339 then 6357 then 9640 then started going down again.

Just as well I'm not restricted to one PC for Trainz

 

[ish6]

Hello Everyone,

I am just curious about something ....

I've been updating things with 3.7, and it's going smoothly, but is this the highest built N3V has shipped out yet?

I thought someone mention TANE creation can have 4.1!

Not sure of this, so if anyone knows please clarity!

I would appreciated it!

Thank you in advance!

Ishie