Train simulators are better than model railroads because...

[sterrett]

I can add theft to the Railway Modelling list of disadvantages!

I built a handsome "OO" model of "Yeoford Junction" and "Exmouth Junction Sheds" in half of our double garage while we lived in Wiltshire (17 miles from "Moorhouse Towers". Many of the locomotives, Bullied West Country, Standard 2-6-2's and the bulk of the coaching stock were hand-built by "Wrenn". Lovely, heavy, metal rock-solid models they were and beautiful movers - you could clearly hear the clackety-clack as they rode the rails!

At some point, thieves broke into the garage and stole the "Wrenn" stock, leaving the Lima, Hornby, Kitbuilt and Scratchbuilt stuff behind. (Must have been fellow enthusiasts who I had spoken to at swopmeets or exhibitions!)

The Insurance company laughed it off and sent a loss adjuster who negotiated a low settlement of £500 based on catalogue price and a 5% discount "which a model railway stockist is sure to give if you place a bulk order such as this!"

When I went into the shop in Swindon with my £500, the owner laughed out loud - "Haven't you heard, boy? Wrenn's gone out of business! The original stuff's worth a fortune now!"

I lost interest in my railway after that loss and dismantled it, selling the stuff to a shop in Bristol. It was "Mechanik - EN57", then "BVE" and now "Microsoft Train Simulator" and "Trainz" that got me firmly hooked once more!

You can do so many things with a virtual railway - for a start, in "OO" gauge you would need a room 20 - 30 feet long to prototypically model a typical small British station area!

I still stand back and admire a good model railway though, and on a summer's day, if I could afford it, I'd love to relax with an outdoor "G" gauge branch line in the garden! ..........Maybe, one day, if my son or daughter join the rich, famous and well-connected!

 

[freightcar2]

I like model-railroading as much as I do trainz, but I have no model railway, yet. I like model-railroading and trainzing equally, but trainz is cheaper and my brother can't grab 'em and throw them on the floor...or "chocolate" them over, but he can load trainz and destroy great routes!!!!!!!!!!! :n:

 

[stationfried]

if i may just say that as a young teen i had train sets all over our house but the trains then and i mean the quality of the product then is just simply far out weighed, a few dollars then is something like few hundred dollars in todays money for a descent train set in ho gauge layout 15 16 then and i'm now 50-1. so few dollars for trs2006, what...$69.00 aus.:udrool:

 

[marvschwenke]

No one elde has mentioned this yet, but what I like is the ability to issue driver commands and watch the train carry them out. This relievies me from having to fiddle with each turnout to align it properly.

Having said that, I think Trainz needs some additional driver commands and a CarCard\Waybill system similar to the system we modelers use.

I am not talking about the Industry\Commodity system that Trainz currently has. I am talking about a Surveyor populated trackmark list representing a cars desired routing attached to each instance of a freight car. Then a set of DeliverTo Commands could be written to facilitate local switching operations.

 

[Quiebus]

... they are not better at all. They are different. Model trains are nothing like the real deal and a simulator is nothing like any of the other two. This exorcize is like comparing apples and pears: useless.

 

[johnwhelan]

No dust problems.

Cheerio John

 

[Railwayz]

... they are not better at all. They are different. Model trains are nothing like the real deal and a simulator is nothing like any of the other two. This exorcize is like comparing apples and pears: useless.

That surprises me! I've driven the prototype for more than twenty years and I find Trainz and other simualtors to be quite realistic. Not perfect but pretty close given the limitations of home PCs.

Trainz is certainly more realistic in operation than the current RailCorp simulators used for Driver training which by the way cost considerably more than Trainz.

Railwayz

 

[WileeCoyote]

To be truly honest, I have to agree with Quiebus on this one.

Model railroads are not really like Trainz, there's a very big difference between the two of them.

When I pick up the controller in my basement and fire up a BR 216, roll it over to the wagon yard and hook it up to a passenger train, but I feel a different sense of control than I do with Trainz. With model railroads you can replicate the day to day operations of any railroad, just like you can with Trainz. Unlike Trainz however, you can touch it, feel it, reach over and flip a switch lever with your own hand, watch with your own eyes as a miniaturized version of a railyard carries out its daily tasks with the rigorous manner of a real one... there is a very plain, but nonetheless obvious difference here.

For the sake of example, I shall explain what I mean by this.

It's eight in the evening, you've had your buddies/neighbours/girlfriend/stock broker over for dinner, for lack of any topic of conversation, you ask if they want to see your model railroad. Usually such a request is never refused, I've never met anyone who has blatantly said that they have no desire to see my model railroad. You take them down to your basement (or up to your attic, whichever you prefer) and show them your masterpiece, probably your only existing work of 'art' after your mom washed your crayon doodles off the hallway wall. What they see is the work of many evenings and weekend afternoons of glueing, painting, sanding, wiring, track laying, and so otherwise building your own railroad in a very small proportion compared to a real one. In this they see that you're at least dedicated to one thing, that you take the time and the effort to build it, to perfect it, to make it look real. And then, when you plug everything in, they see it all come to life. Before their very eyes they see the result of your handiwork, your creation, which if it is good enough will leave the indellible impression on them that you either:

1. Really like to waste your time on the most meaningless of things

2. That you are willing to put your effort into something so as to make it look good, not just to yourself but to anyone else who sees it.

I really think that by looking at somebody's model railroad, we see just how much time and effort they put into things. Right then and there we can see just what kind of person they are, if they persevere through time to create something for the joy of others, or simply their own, or if they simply got a cheap, chinese-made train set for Christmas from their in-laws which they have running on a table in their basement.

That was a model railroad, a small representation of the real world, nonetheless it is one which can achieve great dimensions of work, art, beauty, and several hours cooped up in a musty basement with a bottle of beer, some pliers, a screwdriver, and the drive to create your own world on a small scale.

And now let us move on to the topic of train simulators.

Once again we have the same situation, people over at your lair, you have nothing better to talk about, so you ask them if they want to see your virtual railroad. Once again, you go into your basement, turn on your computer, start Trainz, and start Trainzing. Now if your name is GOR, they'd probably be very impressed at what you have done, you have created a 3D representation of your own world. However, if you're a n00b who still has yet to even use trees or more than one texture on their layout, they'd think that you're just wasting your time on a futile hobby which will never go anywhere or improve itself.

Now if I had a girlfriend, I'll bet she'd be much more impressed with the former than the latter. Why? Quite simple, because she can take controller and watch as an SD9 rattles up a hill with a rake of coal hoppers, she can actually see, touch, and feel what she's doing. And if you have sound, that brings in a whole new dimension, it is simply reality on a much smaller scale. Now were said person to give a go at Trainz, they'd be doing little more than hitting keys and moving the mouse around, far less physical interaction than a model railroad provides. You can see it, but can you feel it? You can hear it, but can you touch it? You can play with it, but can you play with it and watch as everything else runs in the background? With a model railroad I have the ability to control a complex environment, I have the power in my hand. Whereas with Trainz it's all in the fingers.

And now the practical advantages of Trainz.

You can take it anywhere you want, assuming of course you have a laptop.

You can design, build, and destroy a layout in half an hour, not half a year.

You save several thousand dollars in locomotives, wagons, fake grass and trees, buildings, controllers etc.

You can actually drive the train from the perspective of the engineer.

You can't accidently destroy it by spilling coffee on it or dropping it on the floor (unless you have it installed on an external HDD).

My choice? Both. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, Trainz having realism and portability, and model railroading having dimension and the up close and personal feel of actually being on a railroad. The choice is yours to decide, I've already stated mine.

WileeCoyote

 

[freightcar2]

To be truly honest, I have to agree with Quiebus on this one.

Model railroads are not really like Trainz, there's a very big difference between the two of them.

When I pick up the controller in my basement and fire up a BR 216, roll it over to the wagon yard and hook it up to a passenger train, but I feel a different sense of control than I do with Trainz. With model railroads you can replicate the day to day operations of any railroad, just like you can with Trainz. Unlike Trainz however, you can touch it, feel it, reach over and flip a switch lever with your own hand, watch with your own eyes as a miniaturized version of a railyard carries out its daily tasks with the rigorous manner of a real one... there is a very plain, but nonetheless obvious difference here.

For the sake of example, I shall explain what I mean by this.

It's eight in the evening, you've had your buddies/neighbours/girlfriend/stock broker over for dinner, for lack of any topic of conversation, you ask if they want to see your model railroad. Usually such a request is never refused, I've never met anyone who has blatantly said that they have no desire to see my model railroad. You take them down to your basement (or up to your attic, whichever you prefer) and show them your masterpiece, probably your only existing work of 'art' after your mom washed your crayon doodles off the hallway wall. What they see is the work of many evenings and weekend afternoons of glueing, painting, sanding, wiring, track laying, and so otherwise building your own railroad in a very small proportion compared to a real one. In this they see that you're at least dedicated to one thing, that you take the time and the effort to build it, to perfect it, to make it look real. And then, when you plug everything in, they see it all come to life. Before their very eyes they see the result of your handiwork, your creation, which if it is good enough will leave the indellible impression on them that you either:

1. Really like to waste your time on the most meaningless of things

2. That you are willing to put your effort into something so as to make it look good, not just to yourself but to anyone else who sees it.

I really think that by looking at somebody's model railroad, we see just how much time and effort they put into things. Right then and there we can see just what kind of person they are, if they persevere through time to create something for the joy of others, or simply their own, or if they simply got a cheap, chinese-made train set for Christmas from their in-laws which they have running on a table in their basement.

That was a model railroad, a small representation of the real world, nonetheless it is one which can achieve great dimensions of work, art, beauty, and several hours cooped up in a musty basement with a bottle of beer, some pliers, a screwdriver, and the drive to create your own world on a small scale.

And now let us move on to the topic of train simulators.

Once again we have the same situation, people over at your lair, you have nothing better to talk about, so you ask them if they want to see your virtual railroad. Once again, you go into your basement, turn on your computer, start Trainz, and start Trainzing. Now if your name is GOR, they'd probably be very impressed at what you have done, you have created a 3D representation of your own world. However, if you're a n00b who still has yet to even use trees or more than one texture on their layout, they'd think that you're just wasting your time on a futile hobby which will never go anywhere or improve itself.

Now if I had a girlfriend, I'll bet she'd be much more impressed with the former than the latter. Why? Quite simple, because she can take controller and watch as an SD9 rattles up a hill with a rake of coal hoppers, she can actually see, touch, and feel what she's doing. And if you have sound, that brings in a whole new dimension, it is simply reality on a much smaller scale. Now were said person to give a go at Trainz, they'd be doing little more than hitting keys and moving the mouse around, far less physical interaction than a model railroad provides. You can see it, but can you feel it? You can hear it, but can you touch it? You can play with it, but can you play with it and watch as everything else runs in the background? With a model railroad I have the ability to control a complex environment, I have the power in my hand. Whereas with Trainz it's all in the fingers.

And now the practical advantages of Trainz.

You can take it anywhere you want, assuming of course you have a laptop.

You can design, build, and destroy a layout in half an hour, not half a year.

You save several thousand dollars in locomotives, wagons, fake grass and trees, buildings, controllers etc.

You can actually drive the train from the perspective of the engineer.

You can't accidently destroy it by spilling coffee on it or dropping it on the floor (unless you have it installed on an external HDD).

My choice? Both. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, Trainz having realism and portability, and model railroading having dimension and the up close and personal feel of actually being on a railroad. The choice is yours to decide, I've already stated mine.

WileeCoyote

Well said...makes me want a model railroad. :'( :'( :'(

 

[JCitron]

Arguably, the virtual hobby of train simulation is gaining ground on the older more mature model railroad hobby. Obviously affordability and space are major factors but what is the key for you? Is it the ability to hop inside the cab? What features of playing with Trainz really appeals to you over the "real world" model train hobby?

Over the years, I have had small to medium sized N-scale layouts. The smallest being a 2 x 4 foot setup that fit under my bed. The largest was more than three 4 x 8 tables setup in a U-shape.

Maintanence.

If you don't run the models for a few days, the track becomes gooed up with gunky stuff that keeps the locomotives from running smoothly. I remember working on the big layout only to have one side working well while the other half still needing cleaning and adjustments. This was a constant chore, and it became old really fast.

With Trainz, I can let the layout (route) sit for weeks on end on my hard drive, then have a go at it again when inspiration hits without having to spend hours cleaning the tracks and locomoitive wheels.

Cost.

I can no longer afford the very models that I'd love to own. What was once $30 or $40 or less are now in the hundreds of dollars because collectors buy them up to put them on the shelves rather than let the rest of us run them and enjoy them for what they are.

Fumes and other bad stuff.

When building the baseboards there is the glue and solvents as well as plaster. The fumes from some of the glues can be very hazardous, and since we usually work in the small confined space of a basement, attic. or garage we have to deal with concentrated fumes that can not only make us ill, but also cause a fire. As it turned out, I was allergic to the plaster and would get a major rash on my hands and even my feet from the plaster dust when building my layout. These glues and such are not just part of the layout building. They are there when scratch building or putting kits together.

Theft.

Someone else mentioned this, and the same happened to me although at not the same level. Every time we'd have visitors, something from disappear from my layout whether it was a piece of rolling stock, a model car, or anything. I could never prove who took it, but still the item is now missing from my collection.

Cats and other critters.

When my last layout was built, my cats would steal stuff from it. I would find buildings in the kitchen along with a caboose and a few freight cars. At first I thought it was my 3-year old nephew, but one day I caught the culprit. My fluffy cat decided that she wanted to play with the trains and was taking them downstairs. Luckily someone else found them and put them on the counter before they got stepped on. I did lose a truck to an old boxcar, and that has never been found.

When I had my giant layout in my basement, we had mice. They decided that the tunnels would be a good place to live. That was short-lived of course, but still they made quite a mess as they took the stuff out of the hills to make a nice house for themselves. This is in addition to their other mess that they leave behind all over the place.

Trainz only has bugs, but they get eradicated with patches that are issued by the publisher once in a while.

On a more somber note, Trainz means a lot to me personally as it is my way of escaping the rotten things that happen to us in our lives. Without Trainz, I would not have any hobbies at all. I am slowly losing my small-motor functions due to a neurological problem.

With my physical layout I was unable to work on it due to tremors in my hands and twitching eyes. I would spend more time dropping things and getting paint all over instead of actually making any progress at all. With Trainz, everything works because it is in one place without the physical model becoming damaged due to a nasty drop to the floor.

John

 

[Railwayz]

To be truly honest, I have to agree with Quiebus on this one.

Model railroads are not really like Trainz, there's a very big difference between the two of them.

My choice? Both. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, Trainz having realism and portability, and model railroading having dimension and the up close and personal feel of actually being on a railroad. The choice is yours to decide, I've already stated mine.

WileeCoyote

I have to agree with your choice wileeCoyote. Both are an attractive proposition and I confess to having an each way bet myself. However, as others have said, space tends to be the big enjoyment killer at least for me. I still collect the models of locomotives etc that I have driven for real and now keep them in a glass cabinet to take out and admire and sometimes just reminisce.

But for simply driving a train I enjoy slipping into the simulator and submerging myself in the complexities of getting my train from A to C with stops at B along the way. And your right! Pressing keys does get boring which is why I am working on using real world controls to replace the keyboard.

Now and again though I like to simply sit beside the track and watch the trains roll by from a ground level perspective. For this I have a layout of my local station with portals each end to issue train with simple commands and just watch them run.

That's why I prefer simulators to models but I recognise that it's a personal choice. The only problem with any virtual layout of course is the temptation to continually add to it because the walls are no longer a limiting factor.

Railwayz

 

[amrail2000]

Train Simulators are better than model railroads because...

Ok, here's my take on the issue.
1= space. there is no way i could even dream of running sixty miles of main line track with the space i have.

2=price. for me to roster the equipment that i have would me in bankruptcy.
running trainz allows me to not only build the route but change it as i see fit. also try asking a landlord for permission to put a hole in the wall. It normally doesn't go that well.

On another, do i think virtual rail roading will replace model rail roading. NO. but i do think the following will be just as big. and a lifelong model railroader I will gladly suport both as one can help the other. there is nothing more fun than building an exact duplicate of your layout on trainz and running it. now you can see what your layout looks from a scale persons perspective. so some here said, "long live trainz"

 

[Smileyman]

I don't think simulators are better than model railroads.
They're just different.

There are different rewards for both types, some of them obvious, but I can't see one ever replacing the other completely.

It's like buying an album and listening to it wherever, and whenever you want.
It's cheaper and more convenient than going to a concert to see the band, but seeing a band live will never be captured fully by any medium.

I feel the same way about Train Simulations.
I can enjoy them very much, but I still want that loft converted for my "real" model railway. :hehe:

Anyway, this is a bit of a u-turn for you boys isn't it?
A few years ago you made a concerted effort to play down the "model railway" appeal of Trainz, and put it out there as a "railway simulator" for the rivet counters.

Smiley.

 

[Winterpaw]

after moving too far from my uncle, the one whos basement we'd take over with huge HO layouts, i just dont have the time or space to spend on a solo project.

trainz makes a very nice replacement, though i hope itll be a supplement to a garden train ill eventually get around to once all the economy fiasco settles down.

i have a vacuum form bed and an airbrush compressor sitting in storage just waiting to be used again.

 

[ZapperJet]

I don't much like model railroads, I like real railroads. Trains is closer to model railroading, but good enough for real.

Cheerio,
John

 

[lewisner]

For me its the usual factors of space and price PLUS "realism"...a 00 gauge Deltic will still sound like a whirring mechanical motor, whereas the latest Trainz version will roar like the real thing and chuck clag out.Plus, I don't have to O/D on glue fumes or drop solder on my jeans...

 

[Iced8383]

Virtual Railroading.

why:

Marklin HO trains cost more that $200 USD

wiring is a pain in the butt(Literally!).

 

[ianwoodmore]

Real, model or virtual railroads

I like real, model and virtual railroads. They all have a place.

Trainz is much cheaper even if you have to update your computer gear, and takes up less room.


I also want to extend my model railroad by integrating it with TRAINZ so that when the model railroad parks a train out of sight until it is due to appear in another location, then a layout on TRAINZ would takeover. This was one of the initial attractions of the Raildriver that unfortunately never eventuated. Perhaps TRS2009 can incorporate that feature.

 

[backyard]

Au...a hard hitter...

8) Blimey mate...

You hit my very achilles heal...

I bought RailDriver, from Wm. K. Walther, through my local hobby shop(Central Tennessee Hobbies) albeit at two discounts...

I have many cars, and even locomotives(none available at this time in TRS...just wait...), I bought there, after TRS, for accurate measurements.

I understand why Kadee, Atlas, Walther's, etc, stopped publishing side views of cars on the web(buy one, mod it, support us, we do more content...).

I was told years ago, I would not be able to manage a basement layout, due to rising costs...

I have built a 5'x9' model railroad...and as with Trainz, I suffered in the scenery department...

Anything that brings children around their Dad, for a lifelong hobby, is good.

The works of an Atlas GE U28B, with a prototype GE engine sound, well oiled, cleaned gauged wheels, proper height knuckle couplers lubricated with graphite, moving sleeper to sleeper with 12 coal cars & a caboose, in a practical layout, is breath-taking to me.

As a life-long model railroader(46years), I still cannot compare my 20,000 ton coal train, with 8 of the newest locomotives, up Crawford Hill, to that reality...

In years to come, as my former admired modeler friends are gone, I wish to meet Trainzers from all over the world, but my days of week track joints, are gone...

 

[Sourdough]

... they are not better at all. They are different. Model trains are nothing like the real deal and a simulator is nothing like any of the other two. This exorcize is like comparing apples and pears: useless.

Not true....both model railroading and train sims try to recreate the real deal, so to say they are nothing alike is simply incorrect. Besides, the real deal isn't part of the comparison chart...only models and sims...which are very simular in purpose but using a different method of modeling the real deal. Saying that it's an apples to pears comparison doesn't fit...and whether it's a useless excercise is strictly a matter of opinion...