Train hits buffers at Kings Cross

Don't want to preempt any enquiry findings but it does look like driver error, I'm surprised no modern protection systems were installed in KX suburban but then 'stable door and bolting horse'.

Chris M
 
TPWS on approach to terminal platforms should have reduced speed to 15mPH or less. Either that or a very short skirt on the platform. Missed Cambuslang that way once........:o
 
Don't want to preempt any enquiry findings but it does look like driver error, I'm surprised no modern protection systems were installed in KX suburban but then 'stable door and bolting horse'.

Chris M

If you don't want to pre-empt the inquiry, why do you then go on to suggest the driver could be at fault? There is TPWS on platform 11 and the driver was a trainee with a driver instructor in the cab. Beyond that, it's impossible to comment further and to do so would be nothing beyond speculation.
 
From the news report:

"Mr Blakemore said that after he got off the train he saw the driver still sitting in his seat with his head in his hands."

The media will be speculating wildly about this incident, why can't I ? :).

We shall see when the enquiry reports.
 
I'll speculate that this driver trainee is no longer in the graduating class for new drivers and is now possibly seeking some other line of employment.
 
Standard Industry practice would be to drop Candidate back into Simulator process until we discover the underlying causes. It is illogical to waste the resources already invested in the Candidate too soon. Having been both a Trainer and a Driver, I've sat in both seats. That sudden realisation that "****! We're not stopping!" Is not a good one.
 
Well they say you can't call yourself a proper driver until you've had a collision or derailment !
knowing how the railway works the trainee driver will now be marked up for potential management material :hehe:
 
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Well they say you can't call yourself a proper driver until you've had a collision or derailment !
knowing how the railway works the trainee driver will now be marked up for potential management material :hehe:

Yup. That makes perfectly sense as this is the full driver's training experience. :)
 
O once had a near nasty situation on the Glasgow Subway many moons ago. I wa standing leaning on the wall of a train as it came into a city centre station but as it stopped the driver made a mistake and opened the doors on the off side. Obviously realising the eror he/she qucikly closed them again but a few inches more and I would have fell onto the track. Everyone was of course a bit rattled by that.

Also once staying in Castlerock one summer leading a boys camp to a very moder centre annually one of our leaders had came over for the middle wekend. I and some of the older boys walked him to the rail station a minite from the gate and waited for the Belfast train.It was a single line and doubled at the station and as it slowed down one of the 17 year-olds jokingly said it would be a laugh if the train crashed and they were stuck with the officer leaving (he had a very disciplined tradition!). The train slowed at the points to come inoto theplatform on our side and then there was arumbling noise and we couldn't believ what happened next. The train suddered and came off the rails into the space between the 2 tracks.. Fortunately it was going slow and came to a halt off the track and everyone was stunned. Thankfully no-one wa hurt but the lads all turned round to look at Brian and one teen said the boy who joked about coming off the track "see you. Now we are stuck with Mr Scoullar for longer {!).

Later we found it was the signal man's fault. You bought you tickets actuallup in the signal box where there was a ticket machine operated by the signalman and a bench. Seems he had forgot and pulled levers too late. Later that same day a train crane came up from Belfast and sorted things quite quickly but I have never forgot the awe of watching a train jumping poits.
 
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Hi everybody.
As someone working in transport safety I believe there are some misconceptions being posted in this thread that perhaps I can help and advise on. There is within the United Kingdom a legal framework set out by the health and safety executive with regard to accidents/incidents in any workplace. The foregoing is also supplemented by the “fairness at work act” which lays down set procedures in regard to the handling of disciplinary matters when it is felt action against an employee may or could take place.

In the above, if an employer feels that an employee has breached any company rules, safety regulations or has carried out harassment, bullying or discrimination in any way then the above laid down procedures must be brought into practice.

In the event of an incident such as that which took place at King’s Cross station, then the driver of the train must undergo at first a medical check-up and then if fully fit would be requested to attend a company incident investigation meeting. At that meeting the driver would be asked to make a statement in regard to how in his view the incident took place and details of any witnesses or procedures that would give evidence to his/her statement. Only questions which would give clarification to employee statement are allowed to be asked by the employer at this stage of the procedure.

If the employee admits in their statement that he/she has some responsibility for the incident or if the employer feels there are further investigations to take place based on the employee statement then the employee has to be suspended from work on full pay while those further investigations take place or the formal disciplinary procedure is brought into practice. The employee is then informed that they must not contact anyone in the workplace while on suspension and is normally given the contact details of company personnel who would not be directly involved with the incident or any enquiries being made. The employee is not allowed to contact anyone else within the company but those persons whose details they have been given

If through the foregoing enquiry the management feels that disciplinary action needs to be carried out against the employee then a written statement is sent to the employee informing that person of the date and time of a disciplinary hearing and the allegations that will be laid out against them at that hearing. The employees is allowed to be accompanied at that hearing by a person of their choice (known as a formal companion) with the exception of anyone holding office in the legal profession.

Under legislation the management must lay out their case against the employee at the disciplinary hearing, who will be allowed to rebuff that case and question the evidence presented by the employer. The formal companion is also allowed to make statement on behalf of the employee in regard to any weaknesses he/she feels are in the company case against the employee.

At the conclusion of the hearing, if management feels there is sufficient evidence which concludes liability of the employee for the incident then disciplinary action can be carried out at that point. That action is immediately effective and in the case of dismissal the employees pay stops at that point.

Under legislation the employee must be allowed the right of appeal and that appeal hearing must be undertaken by a person not involved in the first hearing and not in any way have any connection with the incident/accident or other for which disciplinary action has been taken. The terms of the appeal hearing are the same as those of the original disciplinary hearing.

If those undertaking the appeal hearing decided to overturn the original hearing decision then the wages have to be paid for the time between dismissal (if that has been the case) and the persons reinstatement as an employee. Appeal hearings often overturn the conclusions of the original hearing which is a point so often not recognised by employees and general society in the UK.

In the case of the King’s Cross incident an investigation is under way by the government health and safety executive (HSE) which would be outside of the train operating company’s own investigation or that of the Office of Road and Rail Safety. In the foregoing the train operating company cannot carry out any disciplinary action against the driver or the training driver who was also in the cab, until the HSE or their agents investigation is concluded and therefore they remain suspended on full pay.

In the above, no speculation need take place as normally HSE investigations are concluded within three months as has been the case in the Stafford rollercoasters accident investigation so well publicised the here in the UK. In that case the HSE investigation took less than eight weeks to conclude and compensation is already being paid out to those young people so tragically maimed in that incident.

I believe I can state that all of us involved in transport safety here in the UK have every confidence in the foregoing procedures as their efficiency and effectiveness have proven to be correct in so many cases and incidents for so many years.

So, let us all just wait and see as I believe the HSE enquiry results will be released within the next three weeks.

Apologies for the long posting, but there is no quick way to state all the above.
Bill
 
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Thank you for the detailed post, Bill.

The process is very similar over here in the states. Our National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) www.ntsb.gov would be called into investigate such an incident over here, and the employee would be under the same strict no-contact procedure.

I agree we should wait and see, but being a Trainz forum you are going to see posts in jest here as well. :)

John
 
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