Tips and Tricks-Surveyor
- Thread starter titaniclover
- Start date
G'day Lewisner,
As much as your information and description above is 'correct', I must take issue with your 'thinking'. As a railwayman of some 34 years standing (most of it 'sitting' actually - 26 on the footplate, 4 retired and 4 as a signaller), it would be pointless, nay IMPOSSIBLE for a train travelling away from the viewer (assuming this to be in a "down" direction) in your above example to 'properly' shunt at this location, without a facility to allow it to 'run around' the rake (vehicles) it is either picking up or dropping off! The track layout you show is ideally suited only for "up" trains to shunt at, making the crossover somewhat redundant (unless it is needed elsewhere)! Nonetheless, it does serve your needs to explain the rudimentary signalling arrangements you are trying to explain. By the way, the principles of the Sykes Lock and Block interlocking is fascinating reading - even more interesting are the various 'methods' by which it is carried out...
Jerker {
}
As much as your information and description above is 'correct', I must take issue with your 'thinking'. As a railwayman of some 34 years standing (most of it 'sitting' actually - 26 on the footplate, 4 retired and 4 as a signaller), it would be pointless, nay IMPOSSIBLE for a train travelling away from the viewer (assuming this to be in a "down" direction) in your above example to 'properly' shunt at this location, without a facility to allow it to 'run around' the rake (vehicles) it is either picking up or dropping off! The track layout you show is ideally suited only for "up" trains to shunt at, making the crossover somewhat redundant (unless it is needed elsewhere)! Nonetheless, it does serve your needs to explain the rudimentary signalling arrangements you are trying to explain. By the way, the principles of the Sykes Lock and Block interlocking is fascinating reading - even more interesting are the various 'methods' by which it is carried out...
Jerker {
}Jerker your comments concerning this siding are correct if the siding is an industrial or service siding. It is, however, conceivable that this could be a refuge siding at the foot or top of a grade where a bank (assisting) engine can be stabled for short periods. The Poms do seem to go in for these strange little sidings; just check out the Rosworth Vale layout or the one based on the Stranraer line.
Cheers
Nix (also an ex-loco man)
Cheers
Nix (also an ex-loco man)
G'day Midland,
Agreed. However, it is unlikely (given even the 'Pomm's' tendency towards doing strange things), though not improbable, that a "down" train would be shunted across to an "up" refuge siding as you suggest. Being a man of my own heart, could you cite how many occasions this 'happened to you' in the course of your duties? The more common practice of shunting the "down" train temporarliy onto the "up" line to allow for a following train to pass is more likely to occur ( a practise I put to 'use' as often as I can, even these days)! This, of course, would make the crossover mandatory! A refuge for '"Bank Engines"? Certainly! Given either of these options, further thought about the matter tends to indicate that there ought to be a second 'disc' on the "up" side of the crossing to allow for the movement from the "up" line to the "down" line. Here in Victoria, Australia, where a disc can only take a train into a single interlocked road (a separate disc required for each interlocked road) that is how it would be done and I believe the good Mister Sykes would want it that way, too!
Jerker {}
Agreed. However, it is unlikely (given even the 'Pomm's' tendency towards doing strange things), though not improbable, that a "down" train would be shunted across to an "up" refuge siding as you suggest. Being a man of my own heart, could you cite how many occasions this 'happened to you' in the course of your duties? The more common practice of shunting the "down" train temporarliy onto the "up" line to allow for a following train to pass is more likely to occur ( a practise I put to 'use' as often as I can, even these days)! This, of course, would make the crossover mandatory! A refuge for '"Bank Engines"? Certainly! Given either of these options, further thought about the matter tends to indicate that there ought to be a second 'disc' on the "up" side of the crossing to allow for the movement from the "up" line to the "down" line. Here in Victoria, Australia, where a disc can only take a train into a single interlocked road (a separate disc required for each interlocked road) that is how it would be done and I believe the good Mister Sykes would want it that way, too!
Jerker {
}Could you cite how many occasions this 'happened to you' in the course of your duties?
Never!
Not only "never" but in the area I worked in I cannot remember a single instance of a siding/crossover set up as in the illustration!
We had plenty of switchlocked sidings in double line areas which needed a crossover, but the sidings were generally substantial involving AT LEAST two roads with points at each end to allow for running around wagons, even if there was only one set of points joining the sidings to the main. In those cases both up and down trains could shunt quite happily.
And yes, our signals were inevitably interlocked with any crossing alarms that might be needed but our disc shunt signals only ever indicated that "the points were correctly set for the movement which was now authorised but that the track was not necessarily unoccupied." This meant that one disc would suffice for any number of alternate routes as the driver had to move under shunting staff direction or at the very least at such a speed as to be able to stop clear of any obstruction (what we used to call the "company rule"). In the event the majority of our signals were colourlight ones and only one ground shunt signal would be provided for any number of different route settings. You Victorians obviously took route signalling seriously. The closest we would come to that would be using a three position ground shunt which would only ever show a green when the route was set for the main line and there were mainline signals further along; all other movements would be indicated by a yellow.
Cheers
Nix
Never!
Not only "never" but in the area I worked in I cannot remember a single instance of a siding/crossover set up as in the illustration!
We had plenty of switchlocked sidings in double line areas which needed a crossover, but the sidings were generally substantial involving AT LEAST two roads with points at each end to allow for running around wagons, even if there was only one set of points joining the sidings to the main. In those cases both up and down trains could shunt quite happily.
And yes, our signals were inevitably interlocked with any crossing alarms that might be needed but our disc shunt signals only ever indicated that "the points were correctly set for the movement which was now authorised but that the track was not necessarily unoccupied." This meant that one disc would suffice for any number of alternate routes as the driver had to move under shunting staff direction or at the very least at such a speed as to be able to stop clear of any obstruction (what we used to call the "company rule"). In the event the majority of our signals were colourlight ones and only one ground shunt signal would be provided for any number of different route settings. You Victorians obviously took route signalling seriously. The closest we would come to that would be using a three position ground shunt which would only ever show a green when the route was set for the main line and there were mainline signals further along; all other movements would be indicated by a yellow.
Cheers
Nix
Guys,guys...I never intended to start WW3 nor did I intend to start another "Question and Answer" session, which (as you"ll see from previous posts) this thread is not intended to be.So I"ll say my piece and then no more......."Jerker" you"re absolutely correct in stating that the "Locomotive" would be at the wrong end if it drove into the Siding.Which is why I said "Train" rather than "Locomotive".The vast majority of UK Trains are now fixed formation DMUs or EMUs with a Driving Cab at each end so the question of a Locomotive is irrelevant.Its also true that theres no "logical" reason reason for the Siding to be there, just as it is true that the Earth is seldom flat and grey with yellow grid lines.This was meant as a TECHNICAL ILLUSTRATION of a PRINCIPLE showing the placement of signals on UK railways.I"ve no idea how they do it it on Australian Railways or Tibetan Raiways or Rhaetian Railways - thats why I said "UK Railways".Many of these principles have been abandoned on UK lines in recent years which is why we have so many accidents.For instance , a Facing Crossover was (absurdly) installed on the high speed West Coast Main Line at the extremely remote location of Grayrigg in Cumbria.A few weeks ago Sods" Law intervened and a trainload of people was derailed in the dark and the Emergency Services had to bulldoze a makeshift road to get to the site...the Crossover has now been removed and replaced by plain line.Anyway , I"ll get off my high horse now and lick my wounds...but I warn you that my next tip will be "Correct use of the Combined Semaphore" (in the UK of course)..
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Harry_James_Potter
General Thrash
Hang about!
You mean to say that the planet is not grey with yellow gridlines and that all these cliffs, hills and texturing is real???
regards
Harry
American_Connections
AC MonkeyWrench Models
Tips & Tricks-Questions
Don't let-me get ya down bout questions here buddy, post your questions in "Tips & Tricks-Questions", then they can direct you to thier posts in this thread on the subject or tell ya directly there. I started a side thread to try and keep some peace in this one. I let my Native American / Irish temper out abit here and now I must suffer some humility, but I got my answer in T&T-Questions!
Come on back on topic!!!
I'm going to try to get the thread back on topic i really liked it...
Trick #1 You can load a car by pressing the ? button it will show you the list of loads it can take.
Trick #2 When your putting down textures if you want a baseboard done fast click the thing that looks like miniature baseboards theres 8 of them with red in the middle it textures the hole baseboard gets textures.
Now please keep it going like this!!!
I'm going to try to get the thread back on topic i really liked it...
Trick #1 You can load a car by pressing the ? button it will show you the list of loads it can take.
Trick #2 When your putting down textures if you want a baseboard done fast click the thing that looks like miniature baseboards theres 8 of them with red in the middle it textures the hole baseboard gets textures.
Now please keep it going like this!!!