The make up of a UK train

[itareus]

...are there such resources available which would give track elevations for given areas?...

The answer is Yes and No ! There are commercially available sources of this sort of data but you have to be seriously rich to afford them. Landmap http://www.landmap.ac.uk/ also have lots of mapping data but this is only available to the UK academic community, getting access is like trying to break into Fort Knox.

I have resorted to using such mapping resources as are available free e.g.:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/

http://www.magazine.ordnancesurveyl.../os-getamap-home.html?_s_icmp=osl-hpg-ddm-tl5 - you need to register for this but it's easy and free.

For tracks you need to find a location, or many locations, at which the map contour lines cross the track. Taking that as a starting point and using railway gradient diagrams if available you can at least approximate the elevation.

If anybody knows of a better way I would be very happy to hear about it !!

Chris

 

[AntonyVW]

Thanks Chris. I will go look at those sites. I know from a gradient diagram I have that the area in question - at least for about half a mile either side of the station - is on the level. My problem is that The diagram does not tell us the gradient at any point along it so I can only guess by using contour maps at present. I know that there is a mile and quarter post within a few dozen yards of the station so I can pinpoint that quite easily. So I am hoping that maybe one of the sites you have mentioned might help me on my way.
thanks

 

[itareus]

If you would like to let me know where the area in question is and the opening or post grouping company I will see what I can dig up for you or maybe suggest an 'old fashioned book' that might help.

Chris

 

[ray_whiley]

The Middleton Press books dealing with specific areas contain gradient profiles - at least, they are included in the ones I have. I see from the list that there is one on 'Branch Lines around March' - but it's not one I've seen.

Ray

 

[AntonyVW]

If you would like to let me know where the area in question is and the opening or post grouping company I will see what I can dig up for you or maybe suggest an 'old fashioned book' that might help.

Chris

Hi Chris. The area Im centered around is Droitwich in Worcestershire. The original line was built by the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton company which became part of the GWR. The line to the east of the town where the first Droitwich station was (which became Droitwich Road when the one in the town opened), was I believe part of the MR. Droitwich is a junction which runs south to Worcester, north west to Kidderminster and north east to Bromsgrove via Stoke Works. The line to the east of the town joins with the line at Stoke Works and heads south rejoining the line south east of Worcester. This road became known as the 'old road' as it was operational before the line going through Droitwich was opened, which then became the predominant line. Id be grateful for anything you can suggest I can get hold of. Thanks Chris

Ray.
I have the book in front of me by Middleton Press for the line Worcester to Birmingham via Kidderminster. Which is the line Im mainly interested in. It does give the gradient profile but unfortunately does not give any heights along it. but you are right. They contain a lot of useful info.

 

[itareus]

...The diagram does not tell us the gradient at any point along it so I can only guess...

I was going by what you said in your post at 16.37 yesterday, extract above. It's clear now that "gradient" was a typo and should have been "height". I fully understand, that's what spending hours and days trying to work this kind of thing out does to your brain !! Unfortunately I don't recall ever seeing a gradient diagram that gives heights. If you have a smart phone with a built in GPS or want to buy a GPS unit you could always do a site survey at key points on the line.

I think that I have, somewhere, a .pdf copy of the BR LMR Sectional appendix from a few years back, may take a while to find it as it's on an old PC but if you think it would help. The SA's don't give heights but they do have mileages at junctions, crossovers and statioon. Obviously the SA only includes lines that are still open.

I'll have a further dig around and see what else I can come up with.

Chris

 

[fen_tiger]

That's one more local railway book I've yet to acquire - 'Branch lines around march'. It could be quite useful in my trainz layout '' March To Wisbech' - so far March station's trackwork is pretty much complete, apart from the rest of Whitemoor Jnc and the yards.

I could easily instead recreate the old Wisbech - Upwell tramway as i have the book detailing maps & photos; plus somewhere in my DLS stable is the BR Class 04 tram loco - in BR green (not BR Black is was used in the prototype). as for the steam tram loco, tried to download it loads of times but something prevents it commiting to the game..

So instead, i'm doing the wisbech main line using 'branch lines around wisbech' and when i get round to it - google earth - to make sure the housing, etc is reasonbly matched in game.

Re: gradients around wisbech. not a problem as everywhere is completly flat, wide open and isolated, and criss-crossed by countless ditches, drains and man-made rivers. 6 to 10ft below sea-level, fenland is constantly at risk from sea or river flooding, even with all our pumping stations. The wisbech line only has one major bridge, crossing the Twenty Foot river just outside of March. The other 2 rail bridges (still intact today & visible on google earth) over the old & new bedford rivers, nr Watlington, were converted for farm access only, after the tracks there were ripped up in the late 60's. still looking on the DLS for suitable matches for these two major bridges to include on my route

regards.

Andy

 

[AntonyVW]

I was going by what you said in your post at 16.37 yesterday, extract above. It's clear now that "gradient" was a typo and should have been "height". I fully understand, that's what spending hours and days trying to work this kind of thing out does to your brain !! Unfortunately I don't recall ever seeing a gradient diagram that gives heights. If you have a smart phone with a built in GPS or want to buy a GPS unit you could always do a site survey at key points on the line.

I think that I have, somewhere, a .pdf copy of the BR LMR Sectional appendix from a few years back, may take a while to find it as it's on an old PC but if you think it would help. The SA's don't give heights but they do have mileages at junctions, crossovers and statioon. Obviously the SA only includes lines that are still open.

I'll have a further dig around and see what else I can come up with.

Chris

ops yes sorry about that Chris. You know what its like you get one idea in your head but the wrong word comes out and you dont check that it says what you meant. I did mean height not gradient of course. The best solution I have come up with is to use a large OS map and estimate the heights from where it shows no embankments or cuttings. Having said that some current research Im doing might discover more. But I shall mention that research in another post elsewhere as its more to do with RL railways than Trainz. I would though be interested in the document you have mentioned if you dont mind please?
Thanks
Antony

 

[itareus]

...I would though be interested in the document you have mentioned if you dont mind please?...

I'll dig it out for you, if you have not heard from me by next weekend the send me a PM as a nag mail ! I will need you to PM me your email address as well please.

Chris

 

[ray_whiley]

Andy (fen_tiger) - I've just checked in my old TRS2004 and I have an 04 diesel tram in black. It's a long time since I used it, so I can't remember whether it was a download or a reskin - I suspect the latter but will check in the 2004 folders. If it was a reskin, it will have been an easy one to do as it dates from my very earliest days in Trainz!

I also have the GER steam tram which is no problem in 2004 but I will check dependencies and try it in 2009 which I see you use. It may be a day or two, though, before I come back with info.

I also had a go in my early TACS/GMax days at making the steam tram but this was less detailed ie. no interior detail, but colours based on a magazine article.

I have also seen a screenshot of one of the 4-wheel W&U coaches but I don't know where it came from - it might have been from the Thomas series.

As you may gather, I have always had a love of the W&U and in my days with card, plasticard, etc. made 10mm, 7mm, 4mm and 2mm models of the tram locos, also attempted the coaches in 7mm and 4mm.

Ray

 

[fen_tiger]

Hi Ray i noticed that the old tram loco is also in BR black - which was used on the long-lost wisbech tramway & also the old harbour branch 1855? - 1966 (from wisbech east to the port (part of it ran through wisbech park). Yes, the 'heritage' section of my route (wisbech - watlington) will have br green diesels - br class 04; class 14 & class 17, & 3 steam locos. whilst the 'modern 1980s' part (march to wisbech) will have the BR blue & grey scheme in use.

If i could get the ger steam tram (toby) running on my slowly creating layout it would be a boon along with the diesel tram.

I'm guessing that somewhere you have the 'branch line to upwell' book knocking about. If eventually i get this layout up and running, i possoble may think of an extra addition in the way on recreating the old 5 mile wisbech tramway and even canal.


Andy (fen tiger)

 

[ray_whiley]

Hi Andy - I didn't know that the old tram loco was also available in black - the one I downloaded was in brown, as was my (rather experimental) version but a slightly different brown lievery folliwng a good article on the various liveries used at different times. I'll have a look at it in TRS2004 sometime and try to take a screenshot.

On the subject of the W&U tramway - I had the pleasure in 1963 of sharing a tent at a village fete with the Rev. W Awdry and his layout which, of course, included Toby the Tram Engine - this was probably before his books became so well known! He was showing his 6 x 4 layout which was described in a Christmas issue of RM in the late 1950s (if I remember correctly - 1957 I believe) whereas mine was my very first effort at building a layout! There was no comparison between the two - but quite a contrast! He was an honoured guest - I happened to live in the village ...

Ray

 

[ray_whiley]

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Hi Andy - this is the livery I was working on. As I said, it was a very early model using TACS/GMAX when I hadn't learned how to do transparent windows - and it was never finished.

Ray

 

[fen_tiger]

Hi ray.

Yep, the wisbech & upwell tram engine was in black livery during the 50's when used on the tram branch. i'm going by the info described in the Wisbech upwell tram / canal book. the 2 tram engines might have been re-painted in br green prior to the tram line being closed in may '66. info i'm unsure of. * the two tram diesels were also used on the old wisbech harbour line (running from where the wisbech fire station is now) to the port.

My own trainz layout is starting to look something good now. Using google earth around march station and march east sidings to get them pretty much identical on my own trainz layout. Had to re-configure the length of the sidings track work three times to accomodate the 3 works trains i now have got parked in the sidings. the other march east sidings and the old goods shed (in real life) are next to be fully re-created in my layout.