Tampa, Floriida today to announce $1.25B in high-speed-rail funding

So is there really any need to have 2 routes pretty much completely overlap each other?(Meaning Phase 2 I-95 and turnpike) It would make more sense to have the turnpike terminate in Fort Pierce...Unless of course it would go on the same exact tracks as the I-95 route...but if they plan on making 2 seperate dedicated lines it is kinda a waste of money.
 
Gandalf0444 said:
So is there really any need to have 2 routes pretty much completely overlap each other?(Meaning Phase 2 I-95 and turnpike) It would make more sense to have the turnpike terminate in Fort Pierce...Unless of course it would go on the same exact tracks as the I-95 route...but if they plan on making 2 seperate dedicated lines it is kinda a waste of money.
Click to expand...

Surely it's a choice? I looked at that, and it's the only conclusion I could come to...

Paul
 
Seeing that map, the lines to Ocala and the panhandle from Tampa would be a foolish waste. No one needs that. You can't get people on Amtrak down there. As I said, if it's not for commuters, it's useless. Also, it would need many stations from St. Pete to Lakeland just to justify it's existence. Sure, stopping is a hassle, but if there aren't stops for commuters on the outer edges of the SPRAWLING Tampa Bay area, again, it would be useless.

EDIT: Tampa to Atlanta... I'm on that train. I gotta try Amtrak on one of my road trips soon. Never done it.
 
@Gandalf0444: Thats an old map, and the two routes are there to show the alignment of whichever they'd choose. They aren't going to construct both.

@motorbreath: A HSR line to Ocala/High Springs would be(like you've mentioned), a disaster. It's mainly(no offense to Ocalans) country or wood. I don't think they're moving on with the St. Petersburg extension. That's being carried out by local authorities(eg. HART, PSTA, TBARTA, etc.). Here in Pinellas they've voted to add light rail along the CSX corridor and other parts of PinCo. It would be useless to have HSR out this far, rather than light rail raidiating into the city(Tampa).
 
Not only that, but the line on the map seems to cross the Bay. We all know that a Bay bridge has to be of a certain height, at least as high as Gandy Bridge, once you are north of Gandy. The CSX tracks in Pinellas could be put to use, but isn't there a very long stretch of street running that would require a really slow speed limit? I actually was looking at that area on Google maps today. I must be home sick.
 
The proposal to run between Pensacola and Jacksonville is a bad joke. AMTRAK droped that route due to lack of interest. It makes me wonder about the validity of the other proposals.
 
high speed in general...

I was hoping this topic was being discussed!

1) Why would the government want to invest so much money into a high speed rail system in a region most prone for a hurricane?:o Side note: What an awesome gift this could be to New Orleans... a new city and a way to get people there quickly! Then when a hurricane comes.. they have rail evacuations and levy's that hold up!


2) COSTS... and I'm not talking about the money to build it.. I'm talking about the money to ride! I'm sure we're not talking about a $3 pass that get's you an all day pass around town! I'm sure prices will be in the hundreds to take this two hour heart pounding 200mph trip! And only Tampa to Orlando?

3) Would Amtrak be it's name? Or would it become a competitor for Amtrak? And as having a competitor will there be a compitition strengthening both companies or will one just fall behind and then off the map completely?
 
Reality Check

The "stimulus" money is little over a third of the $3.5B that first 84 miles is projected to cost. Any guesses as to where the other $2.3B will come from?This thing is projected to cost $41M per mile and most of it is in the median of I-4 which should reduce eminent domain costs.

The system has 5 stations planned: one near US41 and I-4, one near Plant City, one at Disney, one at the Orange County Convention Center, and one at a part of OIA that hasn't been built yet. Just who is this thing for? Want to go to a concert, Magic game or UCF game in Orlando? The eastern terminus won't be close. You'll blow the time savings on the bus system or you'll blow the cost saving, if any, on cab fare. Tourist arriving at OIA and headed for the Mouse? There you go.

The plan is for a high speed electric train using technology from the last century to solve a problem (and the I4 corridor is a problem) in this century. We're putting a fast surface train in the middle of a highway that already has a record of not doing well keeping cars on the correct side.

Transportation systems are after all systems. Something like HST needs to connect to something. Problem is most Florida cities don't have anything to connect to. Trains in the NE corridor work because they connect to local rail/subway service in the larger cities. Neither Tampa nor Orlando have anything other than busses. I don't know about Tampa, but the Orlando bus system is a joke.

For any mass transit solution to work it must get people where they want to go, get them there when they want, and do it for less than the cost to drive. I don't see this project accomplishing any of those things for enough people to offset the costs.
 
Re: reality check.

Good points all.

This will never be financially viable and will soon become a drain on the limited resources of Florida residents. Keep in mind Florida is one of the few states without a state income tax. It can never be passed due to the large number of residents on fixed (retirement) incomes (self included). When the initial funding runs out and Flordians have to pony up the difference this will die a quiet death just like the ill fated Cross Florida Barge Canal did years ago.

Locally we have Tri-rail. A nice commuter system between a little north of West Palm Beach and Miami. Been talk of late of extending it to Stuart but no farther as the Stuart bridge is a long single track trestle (only single track span on the FEC). The entire route was recently double tracked to ease the conflict with freight traffic. This was possible because all the bridges were originally built as 2-track spans. Lately politicians have been talking about cutting funding due to the current economic situation. Want to bet the same would't happen with the HS system?

Finally, anything running up the center of an interstate is an open invatation to disaster.

Ben
 
biblenet said:
Why would the government want to invest so much money into a high speed rail system in a region most prone for a hurricane?:o Side note: What an awesome gift this could be to New Orleans... a new city and a way to get people there quickly! Then when a hurricane comes.. they have rail evacuations and levy's that hold up!
Click to expand...

Then again, why would anyone build a city below sea level on silt washed down a river? Katrina was a brilliant opportunty to say, "This is a stupid place for a city. Let's not put it back there."

BTW, the central FL area isn't really all that hurricane prone. And those we do get tend to be from the southwest and are considerably weaker by the time they arrive.
 
One cat 5 storm would change that opinion very rapidly.:hehe:

I live on the east coast so get more then my share (the eyes of 3 storms within 13 months went right over my house) but the worst scenario is a cat 4 or 5 storm making landfall with the eye just north of the mouth of Tampa Bay. It hasn't happened in over 100 years so they all think it can't happen. WRONG. Its only a matter of time and with all the built up areas 4 ft above mean high tide it will be a disaster that makes Katrina and New Orleans a hiccup due to the 30 ft (ormore) storm surge funneling into Tampa Bay. I grew up in St. Petersburg and know how hurricane disaster prone it is. Ditto Tampa, Clearwater, Bradenton, Sarasota, etc. The statement "it can't happen here" is utter stupidity.

Ben
 
Good its about time that amtrak used those Jet Trains that bombardier offered to them when the Acela went into service in 2000. Maybe they will reintroduce the florida east coast special for DC to miami.
jettrain1_gr.jpg



Bryan
 
bendorsey said:
One cat 5 storm would change that opinion very rapidly.:hehe:

I live on the east coast so get more then my share (the eyes of 3 storms within 13 months went right over my house) but the worst scenario is a cat 4 or 5 storm making landfall with the eye just north of the mouth of Tampa Bay. It hasn't happened in over 100 years so they all think it can't happen. WRONG. Its only a matter of time and with all the built up areas 4 ft above mean high tide it will be a disaster that makes Katrina and New Orleans a hiccup due to the 30 ft (ormore) storm surge funneling into Tampa Bay. I grew up in St. Petersburg and know how hurricane disaster prone it is. Ditto Tampa, Clearwater, Bradenton, Sarasota, etc. The statement "it can't happen here" is utter stupidity.

Ben
Click to expand...

During and after Katrina, local channels were showing the possible results of a cat 5 in the Bay area, and yes, it would potentially be far more devastating than Katrina vs. New Orleans. It could happen anywhere. And with the quake in Haiti, and recent minor quakes felt here in Georgia, the east coast is also not immune to seismic activity, although we usually think only California is threatened by such activity. This also brings to light the possibility of Tsunamis hitting FL. We can't live everyday in fear, but we can not be blind to the possibilities of disaster.
 
Yup - potential disasters abound. One of the Azores could have a massive landslide and generate 50 ft tsunamis all up and down the east coast. Charleston is a bad earthquake zone as is the midwest (New Madrid fault) which generated three 8.0's in the early 1800's. The ultinmate is the Yellowstone super volcano. Goes boom every 600,000 years. Last went boom 640,000 years ago (can't say I like that math). If it goes boom there will nothing left alive west of the Mississippi River.

Only place on earth with constant weather and none of the above is the south pole (not quite as nice as South Florida, lol).

Ben
 
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