Tampa, Floriida today to announce $1.25B in high-speed-rail funding

[ish6]

Florida to get high-speed-rail cash

President Obama will be in Tampa today to announce $1.25B in high-speed-rail funding


read on ... :wave:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...h-speed-announcement-20100127,0,4321977.story

Ish

 

[bendorsey]

Humm - another Mickey Mouse bailout (sorry guys - I couldn't resist).:hehe:

Personally I don't think this will ever break even let alone pay for itself. Those "for" always over estimate the potential ridership and under estimate the overall cost. Those "against" do the opposite. In this case I don't think the happy medium will ever be sufficient.

If there is any corporation in the world that doesn't need a bailout or subsidy its the WDC. Have you priced a ticket to enter the park lately? As the guy in Jurasaic Park said when he went to re-boot the computer "hold on to your butts", lol.

You gonna ride it when its done Ish???

Ben

 

[ish6]

Hi Ben,

Yeah, actually, since it'll stop near attractions, which I can take the girls to, I'll ride it, since it would also be my frist time on a high speed train! LOL :wave:

Besidse, wife hates those long trips to Orlando, etc ... it takes a bit longer due that I have children, so I drive 60mph on the slow lane instead of our average 70-75 mph ... about 1 and half+ hrs!

The train, hopefully, be a nice change of pace!

Now, let's hope it doesn't take ten years!

Take care, Ben!
Ishie

"bit from the article"
"As proposed, the train would start at Orlando International Airport and run along the BeachLine Expressway and Interstate 4 until stopping in Tampa, a little past Ybor City. It would have stops at the Orange County Convention Center, Walt Disney World (near Celebration) and Lakeland."

 

[motorbreath]

Being a Tampa native and a railfan who would actually like to have this, I'm still conflicted since I don't really know if this is something we need. I would hope that if it does get built, that all of our residents (98%) who are from up north and are accustomed to commuter rail travel will put it to use and make it profitable. I doubt it though. But I-4 is a nightmare, so who knows?

 

[bendorsey]

Hi Ish:

Many (and I mean many) years ago I rode the train from the new station in St. Pete to New London, Ct. I used to belong to a model RR club that had its layout on the 2nd floor of the old station downtown. Long since torn down but one of the gents in the club scratch-built a model of it for his pike.

If the state gets involved it will take 20 years to build. Here in Tequesta we had a 50 year old bridge that qualified for replacement by the shovel-ready stimulus plan. Was within 2 weeks of starting the work then the state stepped in. Took an additional 8 months before the project got started. Any time someone from the government appears and sez "I'm from the government - I'm here to help" you are in deep doodoo, lol.

Wonder if this HS rail will end up like the Cross Florida Barge Canal (a pork-barrel boondoggle of the first magnitude).

Ben

 

[motorbreath]

So are you a Native too? And the "new station" in St. Pete?? New for Amtrak (did they even build one), or ACL or SCL?... I forgot which one shot over to that side of the bay. Most of my adventures to Pinellas County were chasing fish, not trains, which are very rare these days.

 

[motorbreath]

Ok, Ben. I just Googled it. I never knew they both ran to St. Pete. I know the line where on of them headed out there via Busch Blvd in Tampa and where it crosses the very tip of the Bay (more of a canal) at Palm Harbour. Now it's bugging me and I need to find out where the other line was, or if they shared track through there.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic. The talk of home just caught me off guard. I'll look for a pre-existing Tampa/Florida thread.

 

[ish6]

Being a Tampa native and a railfan who would actually like to have this, I'm still conflicted since I don't really know if this is something we need. I would hope that if it does get built, that all of our residents (98%) who are from up north and are accustomed to commuter rail travel will put it to use and make it profitable. I doubt it though. But I-4 is a nightmare, so who knows?

Hello,

I think it's something we need, indeed ... One good example is when my wife and I traveled to Puerto Rico to visit her mother, which forced us to drive at 3am to Orlando, and leave the car park in their long-term parking space, which cost us a bit since we were out of the country for weeks. If we had to take the train then the only cost would be the ticket price. And not to mansion the gas for the car, etc I believe we were all paying 4 bucks a gallon then!

Also, I think the change of pace could benefit everyone, especially, school kids and the Elderly. If I drive to Orlando would be for the airport or one of the attractions, to be honest, so I can see how it will help us from time to time to just hop on it, instead of driving ... my legs sometimes just get tire ... too old here!, LOL


Ish

 

[ish6]

Hi Ish:

Many (and I mean many) years ago I rode the train from the new station in St. Pete to New London, Ct. I used to belong to a model RR club that had its layout on the 2nd floor of the old station downtown. Long since torn down but one of the gents in the club scratch-built a model of it for his pike.

If the state gets involved it will take 20 years to build. Here in Tequesta we had a 50 year old bridge that qualified for replacement by the shovel-ready stimulus plan. Was within 2 weeks of starting the work then the state stepped in. Took an additional 8 months before the project got started. Any time someone from the government appears and sez "I'm from the government - I'm here to help" you are in deep doodoo, lol.

Wonder if this HS rail will end up like the Cross Florida Barge Canal (a pork-barrel boondoggle of the first magnitude).

Ben

Hello Ben,

I just watched the Obama Town hall meeting, and a Man asked a question about the high speed rail. I can't recall what was the questio aboutn, but I think it was about the train not passing through his town (not sure) ... Anyhow, the train will got at 184mph, and it should be done by 2014; But like you expressed above, until they break ground we can't hold our breathes.

As with any government branch, there are so many obstacles to jump, however, it seems that in this case the HSR have been plan for years, and now they are getting the funds; However, the news this week said something about they need another billion, etc but since it changes everyone is hard to confirm such reports.

Off-topic -- just curious questions! :wave:
Ben, are you still involved in any model RR Club? ... LOL

Also, have you been to the International Trolley & Train Museum?
http://findlocal.orlandosentinel.co...ional-trolley-and-train-museum-orlando-museumhttp://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/w...07a65c3d1c3e57171fd585aa7a71d&.jsrand=8158428

Thanks
Ishie

 

[motorbreath]

Hello,

I think it's something we need, indeed ... One good example is when my wife and I traveled to Puerto Rico to visit her mother, which forced us to drive at 3am to Orlando, and leave the car park in their long-term parking space, which cost us a bit since we were out of the country for weeks. If we had to take the train then the only cost would be the ticket price. And not to mansion the gas for the car, etc I believe we were all paying 4 bucks a gallon then!

Also, I think the change of pace could benefit everyone, especially, school kids and the Elderly. If I drive to Orlando would be for the airport or one of the attractions, to be honest, so I can see how it will help us from time to time to just hop on it, instead of driving ... my legs sometimes just get tire ... too old here!, LOL


Ish

I know for a fact it would be very useful to some of us on occasion. I hate driving to Orlando, yet I have done it several times a year, usually for concerts. My concern is whether or not it would be used for it's intended purpose, to shuttle folks effectively to and from work on a daily basis. I would have to read more into it. Where would stations be? Brandon, Plant City, Lakeland? Where would it start and end? With many of these communities, people would still have to get in their cars and drive a while just to get to a station. There would have to be a serious ease of access, cost effectiveness, and better travel times for Floridians to take to the rails.

 

[SR6900]

I could see this being very useful to tourists as well. You could quickly go from the beach in the Tampa area to Orlando for a day, or from Orlando to Tampa for a day at the beach or Busch Gardens.

 

[brickbuilder711]

I hope this is not an article to take as a grain of salt. Either way, I'm waiting for the leg from Miami-Orlando to be annouced, now that would be cool.

 

[Isaacg]

Haha,

I know I've posted already on the other page, but I guess I'll mention something over here, too. This is a great move, I mean, not to many people in North Florida or Southwest Florida will like it, seeing as it's "not going through my town". This has seems to have boosted local transit efforts here. I think it's a good move that they've decided on starting over there in ORL, even though it's been assumed to be a Mickey Mouse ride and working over to here. Since ORL has been dedicated to local transit(hint: SunRail), it makes sense to start there, where the connections are. I mean, SR may never start until after the HSR line starts construction, but a rail line here from St. Petersburg-Clearwater-Tampa isn't going to get done anytime soon between now and 2014/5. I think I'll probably use this more than I've previously thought. Seeing as I've got family and friends there, I won't have to be concerned about getting a ride from someone(I don't particularly like to drive). Floridians will get to experience a new kind of freedom.

 

[bnsf50]

Here we go with more pork.
I've got a question that maybe somebody in the EU would know since they have high speed rail in some places there. Can a high speed rail train climb a 6 or 7% grade? Because that's what they would have to do in California to get from the San Joaquin valley to LA. Otherwise that would be an E ticket ride going through the loop at 200 mph., that I wouldn't want to be on..
Right now even Amtrak stops at Bakersfield and reverses to Sacramento because of the grades. The passengers are bused from there S.E.&W.. The only trains that use the loop are freight and they are limited to 45 mph. max with stuck in the hole times of up to 3-4 hours at times.

To sum it up I don't how how high speed rail would work here let alone pay for itself in tickets.

 

[backyard]

That's what government does...

In Florida, they look at this as a way to accommodate and attract more tourists as well as intercity commuting...

Yes, they will eventually break even, but the revenue collected in taxes from tourism always justifies a move like this...

Yes, there will be a few lawsuits from folks with absolutely unusable land or other environmental concerns, but Tallahassee has decided & that's that!

It goes the same for the rest of this nation...we need to reconsider wasteful uses of our resources & one I want to see go is the airline industry...it's wasteful & now a global threat.

By the way, I-285 from the Howard Franklin Bridge east to the I-4 interchange is now 12 lanes, six in each direction. It fits nicely into a smaller corridor than you would think, as I told people there back in the early eighties.

I-4 has been resurfaced and six-lane'd all the way to Daytona.... but these roads are jammed with traffic every day & the mix of cars and truck screams for a rail transportation revolution.

 

[paulzmay]

Here we go with more pork.
I've got a question that maybe somebody in the EU would know since they have high speed rail in some places there. Can a high speed rail train climb a 6 or 7% grade? Because that's what they would have to do in California to get from the San Joaquin valley to LA. Otherwise that would be an E ticket ride going through the loop at 200 mph., that I wouldn't want to be on..
Right now even Amtrak stops at Bakersfield and reverses to Sacramento because of the grades. The passengers are bused from there S.E.&W.. The only trains that use the loop are freight and they are limited to 45 mph. max with stuck in the hole times of up to 3-4 hours at times.

To sum it up I don't how how high speed rail would work here let alone pay for itself in tickets.

A bit of research suggests 3.5-4% grades are normal in Europe. I suspect that the folks in California have this sorted out one way or another. It probably involves more tunnels and bridges rather than tight curves.

I can't speak for all of the proposed projects, but I find it difficult to believe that a mode of transport that has been so popular and successful in the rest of the world won't work in the USA. I'm aware that a lot of American cities are so diffuse and car dominated that running trains to a central location isn't very helpful for passengers arriving if there isn't easy onwards transportation, but this isn't true everywhere, and more and more cities in the US are investing in mass transit of one sort or another. The other point is that HSR generally replaces air travel over medium distances in a way that is less hassle, less cost, more reliable, quicker centre to centre and less environmentally destructive. It is these advantages that have given Eurostar a 71% share of the combined London-Paris Air/Rail market.

Paul

 

[rjhowie]

Well after all the years of mass decline in passenger railways over there it is good to hear of this. The national system is rather thin. We take inter-city in Britain and Europe as standard and real inter-city with more than just a skeleton service. Paul's comment about connecting transport is interesting. I occasionally buy a monthly tramway magazine and at the back it has news of tramways all round the world, country by country. What I have noticed has been the steady increase across the US for light rail which is just a modern name for trams really.

 

[motorbreath]

In Florida, they look at this as a way to accommodate and attract more tourists as well as intercity commuting...

Yes, they will eventually break even, but the revenue collected in taxes from tourism always justifies a move like this...

Yes, there will be a few lawsuits from folks with absolutely unusable land or other environmental concerns, but Tallahassee has decided & that's that!

It goes the same for the rest of this nation...we need to reconsider wasteful uses of our resources & one I want to see go is the airline industry...it's wasteful & now a global threat.

By the way, I-285 from the Howard Franklin Bridge east to the I-4 interchange is now 12 lanes, six in each direction. It fits nicely into a smaller corridor than you would think, as I told people there back in the early eighties.

I-4 has been resurfaced and six-lane'd all the way to Daytona.... but these roads are jammed with traffic every day & the mix of cars and truck screams for a rail transportation revolution.

These are the very things I hope it would alleviate if they go through with it. Has anyone found a link to a definitive route and station plan?

 

[ish6]

It's all I can find .... from google

 

[ish6]

Bit from the article

"Annual revenue is supposed to be $53 million, with expenses coming in at a little more than $52 million. No debt payments are included because the stimulus money could cover construction and the initial equipment costs."

Ish