Stay with Trainz my friends,

[sniper297]

Hee-hee, I still say you should send all that moolah to me, I'll send you my washing machine. It's a Eurostar I bought online in 2005 for $900 bucks, started blowing fuses about three months after the warranty expired. Nobody knows how to fix it or where to get parts for it, but it has gleaming white enamel and lots of shiny chrome - won't do what it's designed to do, wash clothes, but it LOOKS real pretty! Need I say it? :hehe: LIKE RAILWORKS!

At JCitron, forgot you - first game editor I used was the original DOOM level editor 20 years ago, so when I got MSTS the route editor wasn't the worst I'd seen, but it came pretty close. I have no problem beating it into submission, but i still hate it. IMO surveyor isn't as good for route development as the railworks world editor - sure it's got lots of extras like the copy and paste, but trying to position the camera and move a gantry signal head with everything skittering around is tedious, for my money they should have designed it so the SHIFT key makes faster movements with the unshifted movements a lot slower and more precise, which is how most game editors work. Surveyor session development on the other hand is pretty fast and mostly intuitive, by contrast the railworks scenario editor IS the worst game editor I've ever seen - 10 times worse than the MSTS route editor for clumsy interface and instability. How the same people could design such a great world editor and such a cruddy scenario editor is a complete mystery to me.

 

[wholbr]

"Only real sports fans in the world"....trust an englishman to come out with that.................hahahaahahahahaha.
The greatest supporters in the world are the welsh rugby supporters

Hi again everybody.
Rugby? It's a town somewhere in the Midlands I believe. I've never understood why so many Welshmen spend so much money and time going to look at this town every week. However, having just returned from Manchester to Somerset traveling in a state of utter euphoria all the way I can appreciate the difficulties of supporters of minor sports in trying to get the recognition comparable to the only true great sport of Footie

Anyway, I just have a quick look at open rails and it looks like you would have to spend a week downloading all the bits and pieces you would need just to give it it a go. I think I will wait until the alpha version become something more runnable before I delve into it further.

Having said that, I had quite an attachment to the Microsoft simulator so it would be nice to see the great mass of content created over the years becoming usable again in another simulator and especially if that simulator is freeware.

Thanks for the advice
(I think I'll have another glass of brandy to finish off the celebrations)

Bill

 

[Pendolino]

since it's not polite to call them what they really are - Railworks Jihaad Nazis - most call them "footy fans" instead.

It wouldn't be polite, but it is the most accurate description I ever heard about that bunch of fanatics!

 

[NikkiA]

Webmaster at UKtrainsim is a Brit, he's probably the one who coined the term "footy fan";

http://members.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?form_reader=whynotrailworks

I like how he cites 'footy fan loyalty' as a downside of railsim/railworks, when you can get banned from UKTS just for mentioning that a payware 'pack' (quotes because we've moved onto the 'we can make more money by selling individual reskins' mentality now) 'seems a little over priced'.

****** hypocrite!

 

[sniper297]

How about it, calling them "fanatics" is an insult to fanatics. :hehe:

At NikkiA, I've known Matt Peddlesden for 10 years, he has a few overzealous moderators there but most are reasonable. Nels Anderson allows a "looser" forum, but Nels ran bulletin boards back in the days before the internet so he's been at it a lot longer than Matt. A moderators job isn't easy, like a fireman our primary goal is to put out the fires without worrying about how many windows we break in the process. And smoldering furniture gets thrown out the windows, breaking more glass in the process, so if you do get banned talk to the webmaster and usually he'll let you back in.

At wholbr, the XNA framework is really the only part of the list you need to install, all the other stuff you have already or you wouldn't be able to run TS2010.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...2A-E249-4560-8011-98EB3E799EF2&displaylang=en

 

[sparky15]

I have RS and at first thought they had the makings of a great sim on their hands. I actually like the track tools in RS better than Trainz. Two years ago I posted at Train-sim that RW would be little more than a platform to sell payware for. So far, I was right. And Steam, really? It's a simulator designed to be customizable, pretty counter intuitive if you ask me.

As for the cultists, I think you're seeing a lot of frustration. They're heavily invested in something that is evolving into a game instead of a simulator. At least with MSTS, you can go to MLT and by a locomotive PACK, find yourself a nice freeware route and some great rolling stock and you're good to go. You can pick and choose what you paid for, not so with RW. Without any sort of balance frustrations are growing. Anything released from anyone carries a price tag somewhere.

Operationally, I think it's designed more for European type railroading. In their defense, they aren't from North America. I've been to Europe several times and I would fail trying to emulate their style. The few third party involved who do are in it for the money. I saw a tutorial that carried a dollar amount with it. I will give a nod to Hack and his foliage pack though.

With a shrinking user base and few willing to build freeware, those guys are pretty stuck if you ask me. Some users have way over stepped their bounds, though, attacking members of this community with personal assaults outside the forums.

It is a shame, they had a good start for a sim. It devolved into a payware culture and the developer selling new "levels" instead of fixing core issues. I think they are after the gaming community over the simming community at this point.

Dave......

 

[sniper297]

Well, as for European railroading I heard it thru the grapevine - back in 2005 Kuju hired real life UK railroad workers to tell them how signals and operations worked, but they had a graphic artist on the payroll who was under the delusion that he knew it all - so the coders ignored the pros they hired as consultants, and wrote it the way the graphic artist described it.

 

[Vern]

Even now with the Christmas "payware push" at RS, there's scant mention of any core improvements to Railworks. I've asked a couple of times now whether the Class 86 in this WCML pack will feature the correct tap changer or whether we'll have the same old % throttle with the loco still accelerating from 60 MPH up a 2% (1 in 50) hill at 20% setting.

I caused a stir at UKTS a couple of months by tagging "Railfail" in my signature. It was promptly deleted and any threads where I used "RailFail" were moderated out. Asking in what capacity Adam and Derek were really posting also got me a severe mauling.

Unfortunately for me TS2009 has bitten my laptop with the same performance issues TS2010 did, fine with track and Transdem textures down but plant a few trees or mainstream terrain texturtes down and it drops to a FPS crawl. That's the battle I'm currently having, with the MSTS editor no longer reliably useable it's funnelling me towards RailFail as the only sim I can use for route building (unless I take a PhD in...something and fire up the Zusi editor).

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Carry on like that Vern and you will get yourself permanently banned from uktwatsim.

But trust me you will feel so liberated.

Laptop is probably not a good idea for Trainz, as there is far more detail and higher res textures than either MSTS or RailDross.

RailBroke is all low res background and high res locos and stock.

Mike.

 

[Vern]

Solution at least for now is to build in TRS2006 then upgrade in TS2010 on the main PC. Means starting over with my Newfoundland project but I'm determined to get it done!

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Yup you can do that, but all the vegetation will be the old style.

I doubt you will be able to use any of Jankvis excellent freeware 2009 textures, grass and trees.

Untill you transfer it from the laptop.

Mike.

 

[sparky15]

Vern,
Have you tried windowed mode with 09? I run it on an older MacBook Pro with 2.16 core duo chip and ATI x1600 video card. Built in routes are a slide show, but my own average 30FPS. Higher in less built up areas, lower in some. This is in compatibility. Still worse than older versions but became somewhat useable after giving up full screen.

I will say I have XP on the bootcamp partition that never goes on line. Zero anti virus installed.

Dave.....

 

[pfx]

I suppose this thread is sort of a re-working of all those Auran bashing threads but in reverse.

I had MSTS when it came out and found it very restrictive and the route building element nigh on impossible. I bought TS06 for the al fella and he was addicted. I never gave it much thought until I moved back home for a spell and found myself stuck to TS06 and gave MSTS short shrift from there. It was and is, graphically far better and the interface is a dream in comparison to MSTS.

I recently moved on to TS09 and, after a few gliches at the start (okay so it's still not the model of absolute stability) have found that this improves massively on 06. I would go for 10 but I doubt my PC could take it.

I'm not sure if I'm lucky or what as I've read so many TS09 bashing threads about how this, that, and the next thing is crap and Auran have ripped us all off but that is certainly not my experience. With such a massive amount of free assets to download, it is hard not to find what you're looking for. I know there were gripes about the withdrawal of support but that is only logical progress (I don't want to start an argument about that, it's been comprehensively covered elsewhere) as with any software company.

All in all, I've been pleased with Trainz through the years and wouldn't change unless something with supreme graphics, stability and AI came along. I'm sure we'll all hear if it does.

@IKB, I reckon the Tartan Army would take some beating for passionate supporters. Granted, they play the ugly gemme but you can't deny they're a fanatical, if mental support. As for Welsh rugby fans, I worked in an Edinburgh hotel and it was always all hands on deck when the Welsh arrived for the 5 (now 6) nations games. The boys like a drink... Hehe.

 

[Alco_P-A]

Stop the bashing of train simulator games. There is no perfect sim out there. RW and Trainz both have their good and bad points. I have and run both RW & Trainz 2010 and overall I like them both. True building in RW has a learning curve and the graphics are not like Trainz,but I do like the detail and sounds of the loco's better than Trainz. As far as route building,Trainz wins hands down. I think having a favorite depends what you like to do. Model Railroading or Conventional Railroading. It's nice to have both and be able switch off now and then. So let's take it easy on the train bashing. Try to enjoy both. They both are fun.

Alco_P-A - bigboytrainsandhobbies.com

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
I would certainly agree with PFX in regard to the overall satisfaction with Trainz. I for one have certainly never felt that I had been ripped off in anyway by Auran as I find that there products are very reasonably priced and from what I read the Trainz simulator is definitely far in advance of anything else in the field.I think what sets it apart from the others is surveyor. With that anybody can install Trainz and be building their first basic route almost within minutes of looking at surveyor.

As I said, I had an attachment for MSTS as it was my first simulator which I seem to remember you could actually set up A1 consists to run on a timetable which I used to enjoy doing. However, I never did create a route as it all seemed to be very complicated and cumbersome with my one or two attempts to create anything ending in complete failure. I then moved on to rail simulator which within three days of buying ended up in the desk drawer where it's been ever since (enough said).

Being happy enough with Trainz I suppose the debate would be how should it develop from where we are. It may just be me but I have the feeling that a lot more of the content for Trainz is coming out as payware now. I have no objection to paying a reasonable price to someone who has spent many hours creating content but the problem seems to be that quite a high percentage of the payware content available is of poor quality to say the least. There are some great payware providers out there but how does anyone get that sort of quality to become standard right through the providers. I believe that will be the great argument if indeed payware is to be the main source of new content for Trainz.

As for the debate on the fervor of Welsh Rugby fans or that strange game they play in Scotland that is supposed to be football that always finishes up with them in tears, I can only feel sorrow for those of you who cannot appreciate the beautiful game as played in the English Premier league. For surely the next best thing to heaven is to have been where I was on Sunday along with 78,000 others at the only true home of football and sport in general (the Man U Ground) cheering and singing home to victory the world's greatest athletes in the world greatest team.

I rest my case on that one

Bill

 

[gtasa]

Sandbox is what i think of trainz.

But when i want to drive trains realistically I'll play Railworks.

 

[wholbr]

Sandbox is what i think of trainz.

Hi Their.
Sandbox? Whats Sandbox.
Bill

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

But when i want to drive trains realistically I'll play Railworks.

You obviously do not know much about railways then, if you think RW is realistic.

IKB.

 

[amigacooke]

I can only feel sorrow for those of you who cannot appreciate the beautiful game as played in the English Premier league.

I'm so old I can remember when the top english league was a competition that more than four teams could win. Then it stopped being about football and started being about the money. Anyway, no-one can beat the cricket supporter. Who else is prepared to stick around for five days following a match that may end in a draw.

PS IOW network in RailWorks is very enjoyable (tee hee I'm going to write RailFail cos I'm so naughtly.)

 

[JCitron]

Hee-hee, I still say you should send all that moolah to me, I'll send you my washing machine. It's a Eurostar I bought online in 2005 for $900 bucks, started blowing fuses about three months after the warranty expired. Nobody knows how to fix it or where to get parts for it, but it has gleaming white enamel and lots of shiny chrome - won't do what it's designed to do, wash clothes, but it LOOKS real pretty! Need I say it? :hehe: LIKE RAILWORKS!

At JCitron, forgot you - first game editor I used was the original DOOM level editor 20 years ago, so when I got MSTS the route editor wasn't the worst I'd seen, but it came pretty close. I have no problem beating it into submission, but i still hate it. IMO surveyor isn't as good for route development as the railworks world editor - sure it's got lots of extras like the copy and paste, but trying to position the camera and move a gantry signal head with everything skittering around is tedious, for my money they should have designed it so the SHIFT key makes faster movements with the unshifted movements a lot slower and more precise, which is how most game editors work. Surveyor session development on the other hand is pretty fast and mostly intuitive, by contrast the railworks scenario editor IS the worst game editor I've ever seen - 10 times worse than the MSTS route editor for clumsy interface and instability. How the same people could design such a great world editor and such a cruddy scenario editor is a complete mystery to me.

Lol. I forgot about the Doom level editor. That really was intuitive, but at least it didn't crash randomly like the MSTS World Editor used to on me.

I never tried Railworks so I wouldn't know about that. I was thinking about getting it when it came out until I read about the frustrations everyone had with it, and I didn't want the frustrations I had with MSTS before.

John