Splines vs Cut & Paste

[stouthm]

I've been with Trainz for a long time and have read most of the discussions concerning splines reducing frame rates but let me tell you what I did. I'm either nuts or retired but that's another discussion. I replaced all the tree splines on Madtrainz's Tillomook Port route and replaced them with Pofig's trees. I selected 10 different trees and then proceeded to cut & paste my way through the entire route. Sooo many trees. Before eliminating the splines my frame rates were in the 40 - 50 range. After the replanting I'm getting 15-25 frame rates. Cabin views (25-40) are much higher than the external view which I can understand. Everything is the same except the trees. Now I'm questioning if splines really do lower frame rates or is this something strange. Can anyone please explain to me why my frame rates lowered?

My system: DuelCore Intel Core 2 Duo E8500, 3.2 MHz, 4 GB Ram, NVidia GeForce GTX 460 (768 MB)

If anyone is interested in this route check out the screenshot thread titled Tillomook Port Bay. I'm thinking of uploading it if enough members show interest and I get the Ok from madtrainz.

 

[RoysTrainz]

Yes you are nuts and retired not retarded

good morning Stouthm,

I have to say being nuts and retired not retarded if that was what you meant I agree its not a disadvantage in this world. Welcome to the club.
First your spline thing good you get rite of them. They not belong here anymore and yes trees like Pofigs or Mqguirels are the better option only..... use them carefully and spent them wisefully which of course contradict with the first statement but there is hope.
If you plant more trees then me we have to talk if you think much less which for sure I think you do than look at how many different trees you group in such a way that it fools the eye make it look a forest but not really only from far.
3 or 4 I use for the regular forest and some shrubs near the track and grass no splines anywhere should do the job.
I am not sure your Geforce 460 (for heavy forest) is the right vehicle but should be ok since I did a test on my sons notebook last month with no specific high end gaming card in it running nice after tweaking some option and that was a 3-4 year old Acer Aspire 77xx I think it was.

The big trick is plan trees and object in such a way that the effect is what you want with the least amount of different type of objects per basemap.
Cut n Paste is the way to go and only use splines for track,road,powerlines and sorts.
Hope this helps and pls share the outcome of your trials ok?

have a great day or night,

Roy

 

[RoysTrainz]

Nice picts btw but I see also grass splines right at least 2D objects grass replace them with jvc and i see one big difference if I remember right is TS12 versus 2010 is a different pair of shoes or here in our country flip flops too!
Play with the options draw distance, high versus normal scenery detail, tree detail ultra versus high, aniso etc all little things that add up to what your computer/card can support and last but not least get a SSD to enter a different trainz world on any computer as the reads n writes or from an other galaxy even on a smaller computer less or no hickups depending on what you do of course.
enough said for today

Roy

 

[stouthm]

Roy, nice to hear from the master. No, I will not plant as many trees as you have, no way. Yes, there are spline shrubs along the tracks and there is no easy way to replace them with shrubs from Pofig or JVC.You cannot switch a spline object with a single object and I will NOT replace all those spline shrubs with single objects. There are too many to replace and I'm not willing to do it at this time. I'm nuts enough already. I look forward to your updates on your Canadian route and when I show the pictures to my wife she thinks you took pictures with a camera. I await you finishing this route. I do hope it will run in 2010.

 

[Dermmy]

Not really comparing apples with apples there stouthm.

The spline trees would be spline versions of good ol' 8 or 12 poly billboard trees. Pofig's trees are up to 4k or 5k polys each. The 'new' graphics engine handle speedtrees way different to how it used to cope with alpha billboards, but the 'true' comparison of splines v objects you would need to replace the spline trees with the same trees made as objects and use the same number of each object tree as there were in the splines. To save you the trouble I will tell you that the objects would win. Why? Because each iteration of the splines are going to be a different length, making each tree within the spline in effect a unique object which needs calculated and loaded individually. Every repetition of the object tree is exactly the same tree, loaded and calculated exactly once. Objects just gotta be better...

Andy

 

[RoysTrainz]

apples and pears

Dermmy thanks for the nutty professors':hehe: approach which i avoided to go to technical just straight forward splines out objects in TS12 compliant of course. Dermmy you're a good guy and I think we have a great community out there of Trainz nuts very healthy of mind and thus of body as this simulator is the ultra gymnastics for the mind and spirit. Save the world use trainz ,whatever.
@Stouthm my wife Ning is now very proud of me and that means this week I get extra points (to work more hours on trainz) and want to tell your wife thank you for the great compliment of the camera thing.
If you use 3 max 4 different pofigs and look also at different size(height and weight) put them in the smallest square for doing copy and paste you're ready to go to make a forest and for bigger forest copy a larger segement from the one you just created and each time paste,rotate,paste ans once in awhile or many times overlap a little bit. It is not as much work as you think and you will gain tremendous fps at the end, trust me.

At this moment i am putting cameras and running 13 huge consists up and down the tracks at the same time, and hammer trainz sw and the only thing that might happen after a while is refresh memory when getting low and in the worse case save the session when it lags a little bit and go from there fresh and smooth.
Next week a week off and than the final stretch for repair and redo from Golden North yard towards Donald station and than i can say kind of done(OMG my trained devlish eye always see some little corners that need a little touch/rotation you name it. That is what i call nuts but what a hobby. I feel thrilled like a nine year old when I run my trainz down the Kicking Horse river and pass and blow the horn till I get the chivers if you know what i mean. It means I did will and can't wait to share with you guys the Absolute real thing!

Stouthm take out those old splines and 2D things go TS12 go 3D.......Ning said

have a good one

Ning n Roy

 

[Dermmy]

Dermmy thanks for the nutty professors' approach

ROFL - I just changed my title Roy, I love it!

OOH - just noticed this makes 5k posts!

 

[stouthm]

Thanks Andy for the explanation, it made sense to me which at times is hard. Andy the Nutty Professor, I like it. Roy, too late. Instead of using just 3 or 4 trees I used 10 when I did my copy & paste. I did use those same trees throughout the route so I did something right. Live and learn and you are correct about this game making you think. As for getting T12 I'm very comfortable with T10 and hate the thought of transfering everything over to T12 and probably losing most of the content. I'm not into going into the config files and fixing things. We shouldn't have to do that but that's another discussion. Thanks again for replying guys and Roy say hello to Ning for me.

 

[RoysTrainz]

Soo and we always thought women gossip and talk more than man

ROFL - I just changed my title Roy, I love it!

OOH - just noticed this makes 5k posts!

Passing the 5k post puts you in the Trainz women's gossip corner as honorable member and depending on your age maybe they will respectfully call you honorable mumbler:hehe::hehe:

I am happy you change your avatar (is that what is called?) you will always remember me whatever happens. the nutty professor goes Trainz.

have a good one

Ning n Roy

 

[RoysTrainz]

TS12 and 2010 a world of difference never hesitate

@stouhm!

In live I have a saying and sometimes nasty habit like in golf " never over never in" .... If you not try it or scared it won't work.
From my experience I brought my routes gradually from 2004 thru 2006 to TS12 and yes from time to time you have to fix things but it is more than worth the effort as the reward you get is beyond what you expect or people talk about and I know what I am talking about.
TS2010 was a intermediate step (n3v might think different but that's fine to me) and as such is moved from a wannabee to a cannotbee compard to TS12.
I imagine your route is not as big as this section and or not even close I hope althus copy and paste groups of trees over the spline using different layers of course would do the job in less than one day/ copy paste rotate overlap (little bit etc. Even on and near the track make small group of grass, brush objects out of no more than 2 different grass dry and one green and copy and paste them freely over the tracks yes over the tracks and rotate them when doing copy and paste. After that push f9 and exclude the textures so you clearly see the track and objects only after deleting the brush grass splines and delete each and every object on the track leaving the ones surrounding and once in a while overlapping the track. This goes much faster than you think try it you will see and a new world opens to you.
I have no commission on saying this but if you have a chance buy TS12 and make the move I help you all the way with nifty tricks & tips to make the bumps in the roads smoother for you ok ?


Hope this helps

Roy

 

[stouthm]

Roy, this is high praise for T12 coming from you. I will seriously consider purchasing T12 and if I need any help I know where I can find it. Thanks for the offer and the suggestions for replacing the splines along the tracks.

I also play golf so I understand what you mean with your quote.