Some questions about TransDEM

[mrscsi]

Thanks mrscsi. That makes perfect sense. But lets say I don't want to create raster maps for the entire DEM.

I've created a DEM for my project the Frisco High Line. The DEM runs from Clinton, Mo south a little past Boliver, Mo. I've had the DEM merged in TransDEM for over a week. That was fairly easy for me but it's the next part I'm stumped on.

Reading the manual and following all of the tutorials I would think creating raster maps would be the next logical step but again this is abandoned track and I'm not sure how easy it will be to find vector data.

Ideally I would like to import a "combined" google maps image into my surveyor map. I could then lay the track in surveyor along the abandoned line image.

This is a large DEM map as it is now. If I were to draw horizontal poylines I'm afraid TransDEM might meltdown. There is a good portion of this DEM that could be trimmed away at the appropriate step but I'm not sure when that would be.

What should my next step be to get this into Trainz surveyor?

Ok since I am not familiar with the line in question, I would ask "do you know (within 1/4" one way or the other on your dem) where this abandoned route runs?

If you do just lay out polylines and retrieve maps along that line. Again what I do if I am not sure where the route lay I retrieve horizontal rows of rasters and build a mosaic of the whole area, hide the dem and then zoom in and find the line I want and lay a polyline along that using the raster as a guide...

 

[mrscsi]

Thanks mrscsi. That makes perfect sense. But lets say I don't want to create raster maps for the entire DEM.

I've created a DEM for my project the Frisco High Line. The DEM runs from Clinton, Mo south a little past Boliver, Mo. I've had the DEM merged in TransDEM for over a week. That was fairly easy for me but it's the next part I'm stumped on.

Reading the manual and following all of the tutorials I would think creating raster maps would be the next logical step but again this is abandoned track and I'm not sure how easy it will be to find vector data.

Ideally I would like to import a "combined" google maps image into my surveyor map. I could then lay the track in surveyor along the abandoned line image.

This is a large DEM map as it is now. If I were to draw horizontal poylines I'm afraid TransDEM might meltdown. There is a good portion of this DEM that could be trimmed away at the appropriate step but I'm not sure when that would be.

What should my next step be to get this into Trainz surveyor?

You could also set the scale up from 24000 to say 75000 and the raster segments will be 3 times larger and wont take as many...

I have more ram than I ever will need and I run win 7 64 bit so transdem will run to 4 gb before it croaks on me but you may have a point if you are loading a huge dem...

But you can just scale up the raster then find what you want and then go more detailed, I have done that a time or two.

 

[geophil]

... maybe raster maps over google map tiles is the better choice. Isn't it just a personal preference thing?

Which maps you want to use is personal preference indeed.

The purpose of all raster maps is to find your way around, both in TransDEM and later, with the generated route, in Trainz Surveyor.

All geo-referenced bitmap images are called "raster maps" (vs. "vector maps"). Map Tiles are the easiest to use. Technically, the raster maps there are based on vector maps. Classic topographic maps show much more detail, even at the same nominal scale. The USGS 1:24k DRG ("Digital Raster Graph") is a typical example. It's the one available via WMS.

Be careful with reducing the scale in the WMS client. 1:30000 is fine but at some smaller scale the map features will no longer be sharp enough, not even in TransDEM.

 

[dricketts]

The purpose of all raster maps is to find your way around, both in TransDEM and later, with the generated route, in Trainz Surveyor.

Are raster maps not also used to accurately place objects in surveyor? Including splines.

 

[mrscsi]

Are raster maps not also used to accurately place objects in surveyor? Including splines.

I use utm tiles of high resolution ortho photos or google maps in wireframe mode to lay track and place objects.

Using an ortho photo I can place trees accurately

From what I remembered about hog you had the raster map texture with lines on it and it was semi accurate, then you could build utm tiles manually and place them manually and that's what I like about transdem is it does the raster texture and builds the utms and places them for you automatically.

 

[dricketts]

Good news. I've now created a couple of crude maps in surveyor of my entire 80 mile long map. Now I'm experimenting with different WMS settings to see how much I can improve the raster maps as a texture on my surveyor map. With my first two surveyor maps the raster maps as textures were just shy of recognizable. But hey at least I got the TransDEM process started.

My next question would be about creating and using UTM tiles from Google Maps or something similar. I use TS2009. I foresee the UTM tiles moving around my mistake all the time when I'm trying to place splines or other objects in surveyor. Is there a work around to this problem in TS2009?

 

[mrscsi]

Good news. I've now created a couple of crude maps in surveyor of my entire 80 mile long map. Now I'm experimenting with different WMS settings to see how much I can improve the raster maps as a texture on my surveyor map. With my first two surveyor maps the raster maps as textures were just shy of recognizable. But hey at least I got the TransDEM process started.

My next question would be about creating and using UTM tiles from Google Maps or something similar. I use TS2009. I foresee the UTM tiles moving around my mistake all the time when I'm trying to place splines or other objects in surveyor. Is there a work around to this problem in TS2009?

You may have a valid concern, I use 2010 and it's one of the sweet things about the layer ability is that I can lock the layer for the UTM Tiles.

I would have to defer that to geophil. It's just one of the options that I haven't had to explore so I really don't have an answer for it.

I do know there is an option to repair all the UTM Tiles positions. But you would have to reload the map into TransDem.

It can be frustrating starting out at first trying to get a handle on all the things that this program can do. Oh once you get a system down that works for you you'll have a grin on your face while using it.

Right now I'm working on laying down accurate polylines for the Union Pacific Bailey Yard in North Platte Nebraska. Since I haven't graduated into connecting the polylines and creating nice junctions, I'm laying all lines so that they don't connect and then I will just make all my connections in surveyor. That's just the way I've found that works for me to do it, may not be the right way but I can do it fairly quickly and fairly accurately.

As someone who started off biting big chunks of real estate in TransDem I might suggest working in smaller sections. But you're on the same natural progression that I was on and all I can say is don't lose faith, don't get frustrated and keep playing with it and you'll eventually figure out a workflow that Works for you...

 

[dricketts]

Thanks again for all your help. I'm trying to create UTM tiles as we speak. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right but we'll see.

I'm creating tiles with the map tile servers window from google and along the same polyline I created from the raster maps. I'm not sure if I should have deleted the raster maps.

I think from here I use the "create UTM tile object button." Do the UTM files have to committed from the scenery folder just like the route had to using CM3?

 

[mrscsi]

Thanks again for all your help. I'm trying to create UTM tiles as we speak. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right but we'll see.

I'm creating tiles with the map tile servers window from google and along the same polyline I created from the raster maps. I'm not sure if I should have deleted the raster maps.

I think from here I use the "create UTM tile object button." Do the UTM files have to committed from the scenery folder just like the route had to using CM3?

Yeah they are regular assets

 

[dricketts]

Do I have to import each UTM folder individually? I was wondering if there is a way to get CM to commit all of them at once.

 

[mrscsi]

Do I have to import each UTM folder individually? I was wondering if there is a way to get CM to commit all of them at once.

I just select "import content" and select the scenery folder and it does all the utm directories under there...

In 2010, I thought it did the same in 09....

 

[dricketts]

Thanks got it. Like I said earlier I tend to over think things sometimes...

After importing and committing the UTL as object they should show up in wire frame mode correct? Mine are not. I might have to go through the process again.

 

[dricketts]

Well I went through the UTM process again and they are not showing up in surveyor in wire frame mode. They are committed as objects in CM.

I created and exported the UTM tiles after I had already imported the route and texture map files in surveyor. Should that matter? Any ideas why my UTM tiles are not showing up?

 

[mrscsi]

Well I went through the UTM process again and they are not showing up in surveyor in wire frame mode. They are committed as objects in CM.

I created and exported the UTM tiles after I had already imported the route and texture map files in surveyor. Should that matter? Any ideas why my UTM tiles are not showing up?

I think that's it. I always export map then utms then track if I am going to then import it all at the same time...

Just move down the export icons from left to right...

 

[dricketts]

I believe I exported in the right order.

1st Exported DEM with raster maps as textures into surveyor successfully.

2nd Shut down TransDEM to work on the project the next day.

3rd Opened DEM and the route file without the raster maps. Then created UTM tiles along the route.

4th Then exported the UTM files to the scenery folder in Trainz.

5th Imported these UTM files into CM3.

No UTM tiles show up in surveyor. I think it should have worked following these steps.

Where did I go wrong?

 

[mrscsi]

I believe I exported in the right order.

1st Exported DEM with raster maps as textures into surveyor successfully.

2nd Shut down TransDEM to work on the project the next day.

3rd Opened DEM and the route file without the raster maps. Then created UTM tiles along the route.

4th Then exported the UTM files to the scenery folder in Trainz.

5th Imported these UTM files into CM3.

No UTM tiles show up in surveyor. I think it should have worked following these steps.

Where did I go wrong?

Well it should export to your "editing folder" in trainz (at least it does in 2010) then if you import the content it should leave that folder there, if you scan for open assets and commit trainz will delete that folder.

Now the only way transdem can change that route is through that group of files in that folder.

If you have already imported into surveyor then transdem can't alter that route until it is opened for edit in cmp so that it can change those route files accordingly as you make changes.

Note if for example your route is named "long run" and you imported content and there is a directory called "long run" in your userdata/editing folder if you open for edit in cmp it will create a folder with a scrambled generated name...

 

[dricketts]

This is where TransDEM put the UTM files. If I understand you correctly I need to commit the UTM files with CM3 then import them into CM3.

Problem is CM3 doesn't see them unless I import them.

 

[geophil]

... the only way transdem can change that route is through that group of files in [the editing] folder.

If you have already imported into surveyor then transdem can't alter that route until it is opened for edit in cmp so that it can change those route files accordingly as you make changes.

Note if for example your route is named "long run" and you imported content and there is a directory called "long run" in your userdata/editing folder if you open for edit in cmp it will create a folder with a scrambled generated name...

That's correct and well explained. Thanks a lot.

 

[mrscsi]

That's correct and well explained. Thanks a lot.

I think we once we get him thinking as warped as we do he will be fine:hehe:

I know it took me a while to get my head around it and I am sure I wore you out with my questions...

 

[dricketts]

Sorry guys but I promise I'll be willing to help answer TransDEM forum questions for newbies once I get this figured out. Hey I'm close... I've made a lot of progress in the last week.

I had to reread that above several times then come back to it after work with a fresh perspective.

To paraphrase the above, I have to make sure the the route is open for edit since I've already installed the route in Trainz before I can import the UTM tiles.

Sound about right?