Signalling & Mainline

[Frosties]

Hello,

Trying to learn signals.
Ive read the "bible" on signalling, but it doesnt really cover WHEN i need to signal.

Do i have to cover each crossover and switch with signals or what?

Is there any rules on where to put signals or such. In real life you dont see much lights on crossovers and such things.

Mainline:
I have a 2 track mainline so i can have traffic in both directions. But do i really need that?
And how do i optimize the maintrack so i can have traffic in one direction if needed but still keep the traffic flowing?

 

[RRSignal]

Thing are a little different if you're using Trainz' built-in signals or scripted signals like GrahamSea's or JointedRails. You also don't say what country and railroad you are trying to signal, but in the U.S., you generally signal the entry point to a group of switches. So, if you have a full crossover (4 switches, 1 pair to cross from Track 1 to 2, and 1 pair to cross from 2 to 1) you would have 4 signals. You would also use 4 signals for a half-crossover (2 switches, to switch from Track 1 to 2, but not from 2 to 1). If, say, there was another switch near this interlocking - lets say, into a yard or a siding - it might be included with the signals so that it doesn't require it's own signal to control entry or movement through the switch. If it's some distance away, even if it's a few hundred feet, this siding or yard probably will have it's own signal guarding movements through the switch.

Switches that are rarely used or are not remotely controlled (in real life) usually are not signalled, such as sidings to freight customers. However, a switch set to reverse will still interrupt other signals (usually block signals) further up the line.

Study the Philadelphia Conrail charts here. There's also a doc here on signal types and placement and interlocking diagrams of the Northeast Corridor. You'll probably figure the hows and whys of signalling just from looking at some of the diagrams.

I should point out that the default Trainz signals are not very prototypical; if you want accurate ones, you'll have to plan on using one of the aforementioned scripted signal systems.

 

[Deano5]

A good idea for a beginner is to clone a built in route and mess around with it in surveyor to see how it works. Look at what signals are where and what settings have been set for them all, change things around to see what breaks, try to fix it again, then you'll soon learn signals the Trainz way. Kind of like reverse engineering on a complete route and session. :wave:

 

[Bill69]

Also be aware that the default settings of your switches can make a big difference to how the route will perform. Main line trainz should always have the switches set in their favour and crossovers can have the switches linked so when one changes the other changes too.

Bill69

 

[jlp1551]

I found the following last week in the Tips and Tricks sticky note topic, http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html. There is a lot of info there from laying track to signals and lots of other things. They are PDF files, so I downloaded them and use them for reference now.
By the Way, Read thru the Tips and Tricks thread, there is a ton of info there about Trainz and things to do. There are some areas where there is complaining, but I just ignore those!!!
Enjoy!

 

[Frosties]

..crossovers can have the switches linked so when one changes the other changes too.

Bill69

How do i link crossover switches?
When the train is done with the crossover, and releases the switch, will it revert back to its starting position?

 

[Scottish]

I have always found signal layout to be one of the most frustrating things when trying to get sessions running correctly under AI. I have studied what tutorials I can find but I have found that they try to combine rules about prototypical real railway signalling and get them mixed up with hints about how trainz works. Expressions like linking signals together confuse me since I do not know how you do that in trainz.

I often find myself in the dilema between 'not enough signals' and 'too many signals' on a route. One is just as bad as the other. I have come to the conclusion that to get AI to work is a bit of a 'black art' or guesswork. I now have concluded that signal layout for AI cannot be based on real conditions and that trainz does not follow prototypical rules. I once tried to test this by modelling a set of junctions on the railway line near me and placing signals exactly as they are on site. Only some of the sessions ran under AI and others would not. Often a consist would stop between signals and report 'waiting for track clearance' and move no further. I tried placing extra trackmarks and drive to commands with only limited success.

I have found that signals on open lengths of track with junctions placed a fair distance apart are usually fairly easy to debug, however areas where there are a number of junctions in close proximity are a nightmare to signal for AI. Also the number of junctions between signals is a factor I do not understand. Sometimes signalling every junction with the usual set of three (one on each approaching track) often results in a 'signal within overlap distance' message which probably results in problems for AI. Clearing away all intermediate junction signalling and allowing one signal at the run in to the set of junctions often gives better results for AI setting the correct sequence for the following closely spaced junctions to the desired path.

I wish somebody who thinks they they have solved the problem of how trainz AI works in an area of closely spaced junctions (such as approaches to large stations, yards or town centre tramways) would write a tutorial for signalling these areas specifically for trainz AI and keep it focused on getting AI to work and avoid bringing in real world signalling rules to confuse the situation. I think both newcomers and the more experienced trainzers would value this guidance since I think that the majority would be satisfied if the could get their sessions to work without problems rather than being a perfectionist who tries to be prototypical in his approach to a layout.

Have I found the solution - NO!!!

Scottish

 

[pfx]

My tip to achieving what appears to be a near-protoypical signalling set up, is the use of invisible signals. This can also help greatly with that old 'AI running at half speed under caution' issue. It can take a bit of messing about but once set up and used in driver, looks good.

As for properly protected crossovers, search for boat on the DLS/CMP and use his ASB assets or if you feel flush, you can purchase his ASB turnout assets.

 

[wheelsonfire]

How do i link crossover switches?
When the train is done with the crossover, and releases the switch, will it revert back to its starting position?

What I have found useful, and which still works with TS12, is brummfondel's Path Control (available here ) It not only controls the route but it will block control over another junction which makes it perfect for crossovers. Once the train using the path has cleared the junction it allows other AI trains to obtain control over the junction.

 

[boleyd]

There are some primary issues that face the Trainz "signaler"/installer.

1 Most signals, and auxiliary rules, have descriptions about how to get them into Trainz for use on a route. They also may detail how they work once installed.

2. The missing link is the WHY use the signal in the first place? What happens if you do not signal a junction/switch? What is the result of signalling every place there is a junction/switch? Then the customer is faced with the variety of signaling rules and philosophies in different countries or in the USA difference amongst railroads.

Trainz is a very powerful simulator made all the better by customer contributions but the when and why are sometimes missing. This leads to customers being frustrated or making a ridiculous mess but believing that mess works as in real-life.

 

[Scottish]

Hi Dick,
Your post is an interesting philosophical view which needs some thought to fully appreciate. I think I understand and agree with you.

Trainz is a powerful simulator which sometimes works it out in a better way than the user. Underlying my post above was the same thoughts illustrated to solicit comments about AI signalling. I think I have proved the point of not overcomplicating signalling or commands. I have been trying to debug a session for a few days. I add more signals. I add more drive to commands. No luck!

I decide to go back to scratch and delete most of the signals and extra commands and guess what, Trainz works it out itself and the session runs. As I said above, too many signals and commands are just as bad as too few.

Scottish