Signalling Dilemma

M

Mick_Berg

New member
Can anyone think of a solution to this - on my little branch line the locos run round the train at each terminus. If I put a signal at the junction that is used for the locos to run round, when the loco goes through the junction, TRS sees the train (coaches) as a separate consist, sets the signal to red, and won't let the loco recouple to the train.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
The "Run around train" command in Driver achieves this. I have found that sometimes you need to a little adjusting of distances, but AI driver is quite prepared to pass a red light to get back to his train.

I have found that problems arise if the driver has to make a complex manoeuvre when running around, particularly if he has to go through two signalled junctions in the same direction. The other problem is where you leave insufficient space at the end of the line for the driver to be sufficiently clear of the junction for the points (switch) to change. This might necessitate changing the trigger radius.

Hope this helps

Peter

PS - another possible solution is to instruct the driver to decouple from the consist and then "couple to" the vehicle at the other end.
 
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Hi Mick.

I was working on a route yesterday that needed a runaround of a short train in a loco depot that had no signals at the junctions at either end.

To my surprise it actually worked ok. Even when the loco had to drive toward the other end of the train it ran at a faster speed than the usual 1 kmh as it does after passing a red signal.

Of course this may not help if your runaround is on a main line area where you need signals, but I was surprised it worked so good when usually it gives problems without signals.

Dennis
 
Mick Berg, try installing an Invisible Signal so that when the Driver is backing onto the train/consist he can see the Signal just a few feet form the end of the train.
 
lewisner said:
Mick Berg, try installing an Invisible Signal so that when the Driver is backing onto the train/consist he can see the Signal just a few feet form the end of the train.
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone, I'll try these suggestions.
It all works fine without signals, but I want to have my route signalled, (they are essential for realism) and if you leave out certain signals, you get errors like "track ahead is unsignalled" and the previous signal stays at red.
BTW I wish I knew of a way to find out exactly how my original line was signalled, all I can do is look at a few photos and guess the rest.
Mick Berg.
 
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yes the AI in TRS is intelligent to run without signals. I finished my new route a few days ago and tried running it without signals. The trains don't crash or seem to have problems.

The other problem is where you leave insufficient space at the end of the line for the driver to be sufficiently clear of the junction for the points (switch) to change. This might necessitate changing the trigger radius.
Click to expand...

How do i adjust the turnout trigger radius? it also bothers me sometimes when i have to move my train very far away from a turnout to change it. ><
 
I"m just recovering from a major Trainz catastrophe, but it would be useful if you posted a screenie showing the layout you want to signal.I"ve signalled my own prototypical layout as near as possible as per the original and I"ve generally found that Trainz AI is happy with this provided you include a few extra Invisible Signals and Red Trackmarks so that it has a clearer understanding of what it has to do.
 
ahh yes this reminds me of another question I had in mind.

although I would be happy to draw out a diagram of my layout, yards and all, I was wondering it there was another method to getting the entire network on a screenshot or picture or something. i cannot use the map and take a screenshot because the route is at least 20 baseboards long.
 
You can do that by opening Mini Map and zooming in or out to show the part of the Map you want.Then press "Print Screen".This saves the Screen to you Clipboard.Open Paint or whatever photo program you have (E.G Adobe Photoshop) then click "Paste As New Image". If you"re happy with it, click "Save As" then select "Jpeg" from the list of file types.Give the shot a name and save it to My Pictures.Then you need to use Imageshack or Photobucket to Upload it here but thats another story.....:p
 
*throws hands up in surrender*

I've had it with the signalling part. I've laid over 30 miles of track, industries, nice scenery and all, but I can't signal the route. The AI trains ignore the reds, derail each other, stop for nothing, crash my game, and I still don't have a single idea on how to signal properly. No intention of flaming anything or anyone here, but I'm sure you won't feel good with a pretty route without any functionality whatsoever. It's pretty ironic, how Auran has such an intelligent AI (like which other simulator even comes CLOSE to this?) with nice signals and all, but doesn't give the slightest idea on how to use them. And no, the manual does NOT help at all by going

"Careful placement of signals will allow you to operate complex operations
involving several moving consists without incident."

:(
 
OK...In shot 1 we see the throat of the station.You give the Driver the instruction "Drive to Dingley Dell Platform" and he arrives at the station and pulls up to the Red Trackmark.You then tell him "Run Round Train".He decouples and drives into the Headshunt between Points Y and the buffers.The distance between Points Y and the buffers should be AT LEAST 20 Metres + Length of Loco + 20 Metres.The loco uses the Runround Loop.Note that this has a Yellow Trackmark so it can only be used in one direction.The Driver will pause for a while at Points X then couple to the train at slow speed and he is then ready to depart.I set this up to use an Austerity Tank loco and 2 coaches.The distance between Trackmark Dingley Dell Platform should be a couple of feet over the length of the complete train i.e loco + coaches.Also note that at Dingley Dell Couple there are an Invisible Signal and a Trackmark, and the same at the buffers. I"ve tested this and it works perfectly....Any questions? :p
 
Lewisner, my route is pretty much the same as Dingley Dell, it's that simple. I'll try your suggestions.
And how do you change the trigger radius of a signal? I wasn't aware that you could.
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
Mick if you set your route up as I have done it CANNOT fail = Trainz AI runs by the same rules, although obviously if you want to use US signals you have to substitute them for the UK examples I"ve used.As for altering the radii of signals, I"ve done it for Buffers/Railends and as far as I remember you do it in Explorer- but in my example you don"t need to.The only important thing is that the train loco must have space in the Headshunt to clear the Points.The Invisible Signals serve to let the AI know it has a clear run through to the Buffers.Let me know how you get on!....:p
 
lewisner said:
The distance between Trackmark Dingley Dell Platform ...............Also note that at Dingley Dell Couple there are an Invisible Signal and a Trackmark, and the same at the buffers. I"ve tested this and it works perfectly....Any questions? :p
Click to expand...

Yes, some questions....
First you say "the distance between trackmark Dingley Dell Platform should be a couple of feet over....." - between D.D.P. and what?
Second, why have trackmarks Dingley Dell Couple, and at the buffers, if they are not referenced in the Driver instructions?
Third, I read from somewhere reliable (Paul Hobbs maybe) that a buffer acts as a signal. So is the invisible signal at the buffers necessary?
None of this is criticism, I appreciate your help.
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
Lewisner, we never heard back from you with answers to my questions about Dingley Dell.

I've settled for this solution to my runaround problems; I have no signals in the area of the runarounds. This actually fits my prototypical route quite well, as there were no signals in the area, because the points were operated by the train guard from a small local frame. The AI handles this very well, in fact, two locos will run around their trains at the same time over the same tracks, cleverly avoiding each other. (And yet at other times, the AI fails completely, getting completely stuck on a very simple manouvre like backing out of a siding!)
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
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