Settle - Carlisle (the real one) and Carlisle - Barrow-in-Furness

[pware]

April next year I will be in Carlisle (UK) for a few days. My schedule will have me there on a Saturday and a Sunday. I am planning on traveling on the famous Settle-Carlisle railway and perhaps the scenic Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness coast line. From my study of the network timetables for the UK (and what a monster that document is) I have concluded that it is probably impractical to do both on the same day. The run between Carlisle and Barrow does not operate on a Sunday. I have noted that there is a rail connection that "loops around" from Carlisle - Barrow - Lancaster - Hellfield - Settle and then back to Carlisle but it would involve multiple changes of train with frequent long waits between trains.

So my plan, at this stage, is:-

1. Saturday: Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness with a stopover at Barrow. Then onto Lancaster then connecting with a fast direct train back to Carlisle.
2. Sunday: Carlisle to Settle and return.

All of this is based on the current timetable, which will apparently change to a newer timetable late in December. Is it a reasonable plan or am I missing something?

PS: Later on on the trip I plan to be catching trains from Fort William to Maillag and from Inverness to Edinburgh.

 

[rjhowie]

Can I say pware that the West Highland Line from Glasgow to Fort William then the Mallaig extension is the top route in the whole of great Britain and also appears in the top ten routes of the world - number five I think. When the West Highland was built the company doing it once it had finished the tracks and stations had no money to run trains so had to lease it out to another company back in Victorian times! There is a really tremenous viadyct and where it crosses Rannoch Moor the trackwork was created with pressed tree trunks, etc due to some marshy ground.

 

[pware]

the West Highland Line from Glasgow to Fort William then the Mallaig extension is the top route in the whole of great Britain ...

I certainly hope so. That was going to be the main railway experience on this trip but then I had the opportunity of a couple of days at Carlisle as well so I decided to see if I could fit in the Carlisle - Settle line, and then a friend told me that the Carlisle - Barrow-in-Furness coastal line was also "good value".

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Wait, Barrow-in-Furnass IS a real thing!? I though that it was just T&F logic.

 

[edh6]

The timetables are likely to change again before April, so best not to make any really firm plans until nearer the time.
You should also note that, in the UK, rail tickets are far, far cheaper if bought in advance using an online service such as the National Rail Enquiries website (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/). These advance tickets offer no flexibility (you have to travel on the booked train) whereas tickets bought at a station allow travel on any train, however the savings are normally significant.

I had a quick check of steam trains operating on the routes you mention, however the Settle - Carlisle tours all start in the South and have Carlisle as their destination and "The Jacobite" on the Fort William - Mallaig line doen't start running until the 11th of May (Details of mainline steam trips in April here, if you're interested).

I would also suugest you check out some of the UK's fantastic preserved steam railways if you get the time.

@Zeldaboy - of course Barrow-in-Furness is a real place, it's where we build our nuclear submarines!

 

[pware]

Thank you all for the information. Unfortunately, I am locked in as to where and when I will be - that means I will miss the first "Jacobite" service by about a week. However, from the list supplied by edh6, it looks like I may be able to do one or two of the trips listed for 16th to the 19th of May.

I will be investigating the options for purchasing tickets online in advance.

Peter Ware

 

[pcas1986]

If you are going to be in the northern part of England, try and get to York and see the National Railway Museum which is walking distance from the centre of York. I managed about 2/3 of a day there and would have liked two days.

As for S&C, I managed to convince my partner to travel from York to the Lakes District via Hawes but, sadly, all the railway infrastructure was long gone although the track ROW can be seen.

Fort William? Gee, I thought it rained heavily in Darwin/North Queensland but not a patch on that place. The rain was so heavy it broke my umbrella and I had to buy a new one which I still have. The scenery south of FW is spectacular.

If you get down south as far as the Isle of Wight, go visit the IoW Railway. They still run the same trains on the same track that I used to catch as a kid in the 50's.

 

[pware]

These advance tickets offer no flexibility (you have to travel on the booked train) whereas tickets bought at a station allow travel on any train, however the savings are normally significant.

I have discovered that there is a Britrail Flexi Pass that is "valid for any 3, 4, 8 or 15 days unlimited travel within a 2 month period. Travel days may be used consecutively or non-consecutively"

The conditions attached to the pass do not require booking a seat -

• "You can purchase your rail pass and just simply hop on the train you wish to travel on"
• "If you have a certain date and time you would like to travel on then you CAN reserve a seat" and
• "If you purchase First class then you can sit anywhere in First class and the same rule applies for a Second class pass."

 

[edh6]

I suspect that may be an offer only available to tourists from other countries, I've certainly never heard of it otherwise. Looking at the prices online, it seems to offer good value if you plan to make use of any long distance or express services, however it might not be quite so good if you only plan to use branchline and local stopping trains.

As you might be learning, buying train tickets in this country is something of a nightmare... The prices offered can vary between different ticket machines in the same station!

 

[pware]

Yes the Britrail passes are only available to non UK residents, and in the case of the Britrail Flexi Pass, to non European residents. They cover all trains with a short list of exceptions which includes the underground, DLR, steam trains and a few "private" services but Heathrow to London trains are included. They can be used up to 6 months from the date of purchase.

 

[pware]

Well, I traveled on the Settle - Carlisle Line (and return) on a bright sunny but cold day followed a few days later by a trip on the Fort William - Mallaig (the "Harry Potter") line (also return). Both on DMU sets. Both were impressive but the Fort William - Mallaig line won hands down even though it was done on a rainy foggy day.

I also experience steam on the Lakeside - Haverthwaite railway and high speed on the Inverness - Edinburgh express service which was also an interesting trip.

One thing that did not impress me though, was the much higher trainfares for UK traintravel -about 4x what I would have paid for similar distance trips here in Aus.

 

[davidbird]

Well, I traveled on the ... Fort William - Mallaig (the "Harry Potter") line (also return). ... the Fort William - Mallaig line won hands down even though it was done on a rainy foggy day.
...

When were you here? Sorry to have missed you...
Of course the Mallaig line wins, but we have had more than our share of rainy foggy days recently. Today is actually a glorious warm sunny day...

 

[pware]

When were you here? Sorry to have missed you...

Settle - Carlisle on April 29th, Mallaig on May 5th ... and I forgot to include steam on the Welsh Highland Railway (how could I have forgotten that) on April 22nd.

My blog of the trip (if anyone is interested) is travelware.blogspot.com.au

 

[rjhowie]

Hope you enjoyed the West Highland pware. There used to be a branch off the WH to Fort Augustus and anyone looking at the Fort Augustus on Google Earth would wonder why a line to a tiny wee backwater. It was originally planned by the North British to go all the way up the great Glen to Inverness but the rival Highland from Perth managed to block the Bill at parliament. By the 2nd World War it was eventually closed to passengers but remained open for goods trains run by a forestry company until 1948 and the closure and track lifting. The Glenfinnan viaduct on the West Highland is always a tremendous view for visitors.

 

[pware]

I did enjoy it and will be doing it again - hopefully in sunshine.

 

[rjhowie]

Good that you enjoyed it and you never know and maybe we could borrow sunshine for you?!

 

[davidbird]

...There used to be a branch off the WH to Fort Augustus ... It was originally planned by the North British to go all the way up the great Glen to Inverness ...

Not quite. The Invergarry & Fort Augustus Railway was independent, and planned to build the railway as far as Fort Augustus, with ferry connections on to Inverness. The NB and Highland rlys had both agreed NOT to promote any lines up the Great Glen. The I&FAR ran out of money building the line, offered it to the NB, who refused it, and it was operated by the Highland Railway.
It closed, but was reopened with a grant from the County Council, to offset the extra they found they had to spend on road repairs. It closed again, and was taken over by the NB, again with a grant from the council. It finally closed in 1947.
I once wrote to our local paper, and a response in the following issue claimed my letter was full of inaccuracies, didn't say what any of them were, but went on to talk about "the Fort William to Inverness railway, that was closed by Dr Beeching in the 1960s". That gave me the opportunity to write a further letter saying that if only the Government in the 1960s had taken the same attitude as Inverness County Council in 1913, and invested in the railways to avoid spending huge amounts on roads, the whole country would now be so much better off... but then that's a whole different argument :hehe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invergarry_and_Fort_Augustus_Railway

 

[rjhowie]

Must also say - not wuite. There were actually two attempts to have a line up the Great Glen to Inverness. I would agree that 2 companies(after a bill did get scrubbed in Westminster) not do try again for ten years. So there was an actual intent to have a line to Inverness. See this link below.

Somewhere I have a free book from decades ago which I was told were lying in a rail office near Glasgow's St Enoch Station. Wish I could find it in the house because it was an excellent and free history book. Anyway there was a as I said a bill put forward but failed then as you will see in the link 3 companies later tried to do the Inverness extension. The West Highland also from memory had financial difficulties and the NBR provided the rolling stock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invergarry_and_Fort_Augustus_Railway

 

[davidbird]

Of course you're right, there were attempts to, then agreements not to, build lines all the way up the Great Glen. Its just that the I&FAR, the only one that got built, wasn't one of them!
After closing in 1947, there is still quite a bit of the trackbed left, even near Fort Augustus with sleeper marks in the ballast/turf. It's not quite dead, as Invergarry Station is coming back to life...
http://www.stationproject.org.uk/index.html

 

[amigacooke]

Settle - Carlisle on April 29th, Mallaig on May 5th ... and I forgot to include steam on the Welsh Highland Railway (how could I have forgotten that) on April 22nd.

My blog of the trip (if anyone is interested) is travelware.blogspot.com.au

Interesting blog, thanks!