shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
Indeed - defragging will shorten its lifespan.
Shane
Shane
Serious framerate drop changing views in driver mode
- Thread starter teletekman
- Start date
Would defragging the WD make a difference - maybe, it depends.
Operating System: Windows XP Media Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3
Model: Dell DXP051
Power supply: 550 watts
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.40GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2GB Crucial Ballistix 800mhz (throttled down to 633 because Dell sucks)
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GT430 1GB
Sound: SB Audigy
Hard Drives:
C:Western Digital WD5000AAKX-001CA0 462.0 GB 7200rpm
F:SanDisk SDSSDH120GG25 114.5 GB solid state drive
That's what I currently have, with the operating system on the WD and Trainz on the SSD. Moving the Windows swap file from the C drive to F made no noticeable difference, so I formatted the SSD and installed a copy of XP home on that, set up as a dual boot, then copied TS2010 to the SSD so it's all SSD, OS, swap file, and Trainz. Again no earthshaking improvement, only difference is this problem;
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?59346-System-hangs-when-painting-ground
Doesn't happen in that configuration, confirming my suspicion that something else I have installed on the main drive causes TADDaemon to have spaz attacks.
On either boot I still get this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ew7Mvka16M
Which is most likely hardware, altho I could swear it wasn't as pronounced as that a year ago. I'm 59 years old and half senile so take that for what it's worth, possibly it WAS that bad a year ago and I'm just not remembering it correctly, too bad you can't defrag brains.
Video is also a maybe - if I get a few bucks to spare I'll be looking into something better than the 430, the key to Nvidia is the second number - for example a 450 would actually perform better than a 520, the 500 series is newer but the 20 indicates the budget version of the series. Also the amount of VRAM probably makes a difference, a 560 with 1 gig of VRAM versus a 560 with 2 gigs of VRAM the 2 gig model would probably reduce the loading issues simply because it can load more graphics so it doesn't need to wait for the disk as often.
Operating System: Windows XP Media Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3
Model: Dell DXP051
Power supply: 550 watts
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.40GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2GB Crucial Ballistix 800mhz (throttled down to 633 because Dell sucks)
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GT430 1GB
Sound: SB Audigy
Hard Drives:
C:Western Digital WD5000AAKX-001CA0 462.0 GB 7200rpm
F:SanDisk SDSSDH120GG25 114.5 GB solid state drive
That's what I currently have, with the operating system on the WD and Trainz on the SSD. Moving the Windows swap file from the C drive to F made no noticeable difference, so I formatted the SSD and installed a copy of XP home on that, set up as a dual boot, then copied TS2010 to the SSD so it's all SSD, OS, swap file, and Trainz. Again no earthshaking improvement, only difference is this problem;
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?59346-System-hangs-when-painting-ground
Doesn't happen in that configuration, confirming my suspicion that something else I have installed on the main drive causes TADDaemon to have spaz attacks.
On either boot I still get this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ew7Mvka16M
Which is most likely hardware, altho I could swear it wasn't as pronounced as that a year ago. I'm 59 years old and half senile so take that for what it's worth, possibly it WAS that bad a year ago and I'm just not remembering it correctly, too bad you can't defrag brains.
Video is also a maybe - if I get a few bucks to spare I'll be looking into something better than the 430, the key to Nvidia is the second number - for example a 450 would actually perform better than a 520, the 500 series is newer but the 20 indicates the budget version of the series. Also the amount of VRAM probably makes a difference, a 560 with 1 gig of VRAM versus a 560 with 2 gigs of VRAM the 2 gig model would probably reduce the loading issues simply because it can load more graphics so it doesn't need to wait for the disk as often.
Correct. I saw the 500GB drive which I assume has the Trainz stuff on it.
If he uses a modern defrag program, such as the one built-in to Windows 7 with the drivers for his SSD, or Windows 8 which has this already built-in, or perhaps other products such as AVG PC Tune-Up, then there will be no issue. Defrag is turned of automatically for SSD drives.
Still even if the OS is on the slower drive, a good defrag does help because of the temporary files that get placed on the drive anyway. I have found that myself. In the past I've only defragged my D: drive where I have Trainz TS12 installed. There was little improvement until I defragged the boot drive as well where the OS puts its temporary files.
John
teletekman
New member
Yes I am using currently using DirectX. This made a huge improvement in my overall FPS over OpenGL which upon the initial configuration of Trainz OpenGL was selcted by default.
I assumed DirectX was updated with the latest NVidia driver I loaded yesterday but I will check that as well when I get home.
My Trainz install is on it's own SSD as well as the OS being on it's own SSD. Right now the only use I have currently for the 500G spinner drive is for loading my raw video recordings from Fraps. Just as a side note I also turned off as many running processes in the back ground without touching anything critical. Overall the system runs great including Trainz overall. It's just that severe lag while changing views from internal to external.
I assumed DirectX was updated with the latest NVidia driver I loaded yesterday but I will check that as well when I get home.
My Trainz install is on it's own SSD as well as the OS being on it's own SSD. Right now the only use I have currently for the 500G spinner drive is for loading my raw video recordings from Fraps. Just as a side note I also turned off as many running processes in the back ground without touching anything critical. Overall the system runs great including Trainz overall. It's just that severe lag while changing views from internal to external.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
DirectX has to be updated seperately from the video card driver as it is in a seperate location. If you are unsure on the process to update, I have a utility available in this forum (DXInstallHelper) that is able to download and install the latest version for you. There is also a link within said thread if you want to do it manually.
Shane
Shane
I got a dramatic improvement in my frame rates after switching to direct X, in fact today I was getting in the 100's on the UMR winter route. That being said, I think switching from Cab to external view, requiring reloading all the screen data, is always going to cause cause a sudden drop in FPS, until the new content is loaded.
Sean - As a guide to how much extra scenery has to be loaded you can show performance stats in driver or surveyor by clicking on
Menu - Options - Developer Settings - then check either Show performance settings in driver and/or surveyor.
You will also see that there is a large change in what has to be loaded as you zoom in and out from any train or if you change from one driver to another.
Menu - Options - Developer Settings - then check either Show performance settings in driver and/or surveyor.
You will also see that there is a large change in what has to be loaded as you zoom in and out from any train or if you change from one driver to another.
Couple of other hints too that will help:
Turn off antivirus scanning on your Trainz folder, or at least set it not to scan on opening or executing the programs in the .// Auran\TS12\ and subfolders. This is especially true of the Userdata folder.
Turn off Windows Search, or at least disable the search for that drive or folder.
You'll find that overall the loading of content and panning about will be much faster without the extra overhead.
John
Turn off antivirus scanning on your Trainz folder, or at least set it not to scan on opening or executing the programs in the .// Auran\TS12\ and subfolders. This is especially true of the Userdata folder.
Turn off Windows Search, or at least disable the search for that drive or folder.
You'll find that overall the loading of content and panning about will be much faster without the extra overhead.
John
Get rid of all the background trash running with Gamebooster. http://download.cnet.com/Razer-Game-Booster/3000-18512_4-10913645.html
That works too. I keep forgetting about that because I use the AVG PC-Tune-up which does the same thing. The AVG version was free for me and I just purchased a two year subscription to them after my year trial ran out. It's not a bad program and does a fairly good job too of cleaning out the temporary files too which I do before a defrag. I know as a system's guy I'm being lazy. I could do this by hand, which I used to, but I like the single-click world.
John
I see it has a built in defragmenter, I don't suppose you know if it ignores SSD's ?
I have never used the defragmenter in that program, but I would imagine it would.
teletekman
New member
Sorry for updating everyone so late. I have been without internet service for the last few days and just got back online today. Anyways, I tried using everyone's advice including updating DirectX and using Game Booster. They all seem to respond the same when switching views. I did however run into another issue unrelated to trainz which required me to replace my video card anyways. I swapped it out with the 660Ti that I originally was talking about and even though I needed another card anyways, it did help with the framerate some what. I was really testing on one route in similar heavy scenic areas and the sweet spot on the distance meter to obtain minimal framerate loss switching views is around 2000. That is also with setting the good weather fog to around 0.6. Anything higher it then starts to jump around a bit. When I am out in lesser scenic area's switching from cab to external is not that bad.
Other than that with this new 660Ti card i am averaging framerates in mid 30's to low 40's overall so I feel pretty happy about that. Even though the distance is only around 2000, with the fog hiding the background everything looks pretty good.
Thanks everyone for the help in getting me to understand this. Like I said it's a bit if a difference come from MS Train Simulator after so many years.
Looking forward to finally getting to enjoy Trainz! Cheers!
Other than that with this new 660Ti card i am averaging framerates in mid 30's to low 40's overall so I feel pretty happy about that. Even though the distance is only around 2000, with the fog hiding the background everything looks pretty good.
Thanks everyone for the help in getting me to understand this. Like I said it's a bit if a difference come from MS Train Simulator after so many years.
Looking forward to finally getting to enjoy Trainz! Cheers!
That's good news. I'm glad you updated us on this. Now have fun! 
I too had some awful performance issues. See my thread in the Parts and Labour on replacing a power supply and two hard drives last weekend. I had game crashes to the desktop, system reboots, and drive death. Up until that time, I was also experiencing awful performance issues as well. Hmm... The power supply was dying a slow death and not able to keep up with the stress from the game. It eventually died and so did my hard drives. The power supply could very well have eaten the drives as well, which were quite old.
John
I too had some awful performance issues. See my thread in the Parts and Labour on replacing a power supply and two hard drives last weekend. I had game crashes to the desktop, system reboots, and drive death. Up until that time, I was also experiencing awful performance issues as well. Hmm... The power supply was dying a slow death and not able to keep up with the stress from the game. It eventually died and so did my hard drives. The power supply could very well have eaten the drives as well, which were quite old.
John
That's good news. I'm glad you updated us on this. Now have fun!
I too had some awful performance issues. See my thread in the Parts and Labour on replacing a power supply and two hard drives last weekend. I had game crashes to the desktop, system reboots, and drive death. Up until that time, I was also experiencing awful performance issues as well. Hmm... The power supply was dying a slow death and not able to keep up with the stress from the game. It eventually died and so did my hard drives. The power supply could very well have eaten the drives as well, which were quite old.
John
I think statistics on hard drive failures are something like 7% per year after the second year according to Google who has done extensive research on this. So if you have a 4 you old harddrive, it would have almost a one in five chance of failure. That is pretty high in my book. I use a program that monitors my harddrives and when the drives start developing the slightest problem, it warns me. http://www.hdsentinel.com/ There is a free trial version and for about $23, you can get it for one PC. Works great.
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In theory that's what Smart is supposed to warn you about, in my experience, it invariably doesn't, Hdsentinal, I used to use that, when I used recon or second user drives, haven't lately though.
Just replaced a drive in one of my PC's, Smart says it was fine, clanking noises and a transfer rate of 5KB/s says it was not!
According to Googles research which was very extensive, they determined that after a smart error, the risk of failure went up dramatically and quickly. It would also depend on which version of HDsentinal is running as some versions check much more than others. Any time a HD makes any noise, it's time to replace it and always have a backup even on a brand new drive, which can go bad too. I am amazed at the number of people I know that don't back up their harddrives.
Bob -
Thank you for the link on the utility. I'll check it out. I too usually change my drives out too as soon as they start making noise, but being on disability right now means I have a tighter budget and was hoping for my tax return (last year's taxes) refund to come in so I could replace my drives. I guess I almost made it this time because I file my taxes in early February.
Would it be that I bought the drives at the same time have anything to do with it? My timing and luck can be extraordinary sometimes!
Malc -
I've had this happen too where the drive just couldn't get out of its own way it seemed. Then I've also had SMART report failures and then a drives was dead on the next reboot! If the reporting happened a bit sooner it would be nice, but this is like someone yelling fore when a golf ball is three feet from you head!
John
Thank you for the link on the utility. I'll check it out. I too usually change my drives out too as soon as they start making noise, but being on disability right now means I have a tighter budget and was hoping for my tax return (last year's taxes) refund to come in so I could replace my drives. I guess I almost made it this time because I file my taxes in early February.
Would it be that I bought the drives at the same time have anything to do with it? My timing and luck can be extraordinary sometimes!
Malc -
I've had this happen too where the drive just couldn't get out of its own way it seemed. Then I've also had SMART report failures and then a drives was dead on the next reboot! If the reporting happened a bit sooner it would be nice, but this is like someone yelling fore when a golf ball is three feet from you head!
John
teletekman
New member
Ok so after finally sitting down for a few hours last night to check out some of the various routes I have a couple more questions regarding this just to make sure I am on the right track here...
Since with my upgraded video card, I would assume that it's more than plenty to operate TS12 with excellent frame rates which I am now getting btw. If you are operating in heavily scenic area's, your frame rate will drop since the GPU needs to play catch up and will then eventually smooth out, correct? I did notice yesterday I was driving one of the commuter trains through town (can't think of the name of the route right now) and was getting FPS of around 18. Once I got back out to a lesser scenic area the FPS goes up to about 30.
This is also for future consideration but would a higher end card than what I have now (GTX 680 or even 690) make a huge amount of difference? I am running right now in DirectX mode, have it updated to the latest as per Shane's tutorial, have my sliders all set to Normal, have the distance slider set to 2000, good weather fog set to 0.6 and am getting good FPS on average around 35 driving the Bakersfield/Mohave routes. Can Trainz12 benefit from better hardware anywhere else or is what I have right now pretty much on the high end of things? Just looking into the future a bit...
Sean
Since with my upgraded video card, I would assume that it's more than plenty to operate TS12 with excellent frame rates which I am now getting btw. If you are operating in heavily scenic area's, your frame rate will drop since the GPU needs to play catch up and will then eventually smooth out, correct? I did notice yesterday I was driving one of the commuter trains through town (can't think of the name of the route right now) and was getting FPS of around 18. Once I got back out to a lesser scenic area the FPS goes up to about 30.
This is also for future consideration but would a higher end card than what I have now (GTX 680 or even 690) make a huge amount of difference? I am running right now in DirectX mode, have it updated to the latest as per Shane's tutorial, have my sliders all set to Normal, have the distance slider set to 2000, good weather fog set to 0.6 and am getting good FPS on average around 35 driving the Bakersfield/Mohave routes. Can Trainz12 benefit from better hardware anywhere else or is what I have right now pretty much on the high end of things? Just looking into the future a bit...
Sean
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