Semaphore Signals (UK)

[trainzmadli]

Hello all.

I've noticed on Trainz A New Era, that the Semaphore signalling system only works to a certain extent. When a locomotive passes the signal, it immediately changes back to danger. I.e the front of the train passes, it changes straight away. However, in the real world, if a signal man drops a signal to the 'On' position, while a train is still passing the signal, it means emergency stop. Also the signal man may not be able to see that the train has passed so he has an 'Indicator' in his box to show when the train has passed the signal, hence why there is sometimes a delay for a short period from the signal showing clear, to danger. So therefore the signal should remain clear until the tail of the train has passed that signal. Is there a way in Trainz, to be able to do that, to add that extra bit of realism?

Thanks Guys

Liam

 

[JCitron]

Liam,

This kind of behavior is something that the content creator would have to script into their signals.

 

[trainzmadli]

Oh right I see,
thanks for your response. I find it even in the default stuff, on payware routes too.

 

[Vern]

I would imagine this is because the core signalling processes in Trainz are primarily derived from how colour light signals work, i.e. as soon as the train occupies the track circuit in advance of the signal overlap it is returned to danger. And TBH if you're driving from the cab view (as that much attention to detail would indicate you should be doing ), then you wouldn't notice at what point the signal you just passed reverted to danger!

 

[chrisaw]

There are a couple of lines you can add to the signal's config:

overlap xxx
overlap-track-circuited 1

It's a small difference in TS12 in that the signal returns to danger after the lead loco passes, but I'm wondering if it might work differently in TANE.

I've found that as the animation of the arms is played backwards once the loco passes, putting extra frames after the signal animation adds a delay.
But you need to be the signal's originator to do it, and as it's done on framerate it could be a bit variable, but I'm trying some tests to se if it makes a worthwhile difference.

Chris.

 

[chrisaw]

These links should show what I'm trialling:
https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/5Ir2bwH2ok
https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/drhRpwA0xV

The signal arm stays off for a set number of frames, so it depends on the train's speed how much will pass before it returns to on.
This only applies to the animation, so once the loco passes the lights are displaying red. I have an idea to try out to see if I can bodge that as well.
The only other problem I can see is that once a junction is set, the built in delay means that both signals at a junction would look off at the same time until the animation runs its time down. Is that a situation that's likely to come up on a real route?

Chris.

 

[cyberdongreen]

Unfortunately, Trainz and its signalling is very much tied up in the way that Vern has described. In the real world, the action of signals being placed back to danger in the semaphore era was tied very closely to the Signalman's ability to see the tail lamp of any passing trains (or receiving a verbal assurance from the train's Guard that the train was "inside complete" when it was being diverted into a loop prior to the controlling box.) The majority of those regulations about tail lamps still apply today in the UK too - (hence why a lot of those modern model railway models of diesel engines are ridiculous because of their constantly illuminated tail lights.) The sight of the tail lamp indicated to the Signalman that the train leaving his section was fully complete and no vehicles had been left behind for someone else to run into and no further vehicles are following. Modern track circuits and powerboxes relieve many of our Signalmen of a lot of the bother of having to actually see a tail lamp these days but any train that fails to display one will bring the railway to a standstill immediately until a satisfactory explanation is given to the Signalman. Track circuits or not, he wants to know that the train in question is complete.

Up to this point in time though, it looks like your best hope in Trainz is that Chris can come up with something in his dabblings or perhaps you could find a way to use triggers/commands to do what you want doing.

Good luck

Dave

 

[chrisaw]

Combined signal animation here:
https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/xKqPfIwDxe

Chris.

 

[stagecoach]

Unfortunately, Trainz and its signalling is very much tied up in the way that Vern has described. In the real world, the action of signals being placed back to danger in the semaphore era was tied very closely to the Signalman's ability to see the tail lamp of any passing trains.

Should this not read as signal set to proceed? The signal (A) would be set at danger as soon as the signal man saw the front of the train pass it. If he did not see a tail light it would remain at danger to the next train. Only when he saw the tail light would he be able to change signal (A) to clear for the next train. If signal (A) remained at clear and the train lost a wagon between (A and B) signals the next train would pass the signal (A) and hit the detached wagon. The signal box would most likely be between signal B and C or C and D.

 

[2995Valliant]

No - the guard is also looking for a clear signal. If he sees a signal at danger as he passes it is his duty to stop the train immediately. I've seen it happen when a signalman was a bit keen resetting a starter signal as a train was departing, Guard stops train, driver guard and signalman then have to confer as per the rulebook before the train could proceed.

 

[valbridge]

In my days as a BR Signalman working absolute block, in a semaphore signalling system, you would only give a 'clear' bell to the previous signal box once a train had passed with tail light intact. The signal being set back to 'on' after a train had passed was not the main criteria. The block signalling would not provide the previous signal box with a 'clear line' for a subsequent train until the signalman was convinced the line is clear. This by either physically checking the line, or allowing a following train to proceed under caution. For distant semaphores there was usually a 'treddle indicator' inside the signal box to indicate the passing of a train, this was also used for outer home or advanced starter signals also. It might be worth mentioning that not all boxes were built with such a view to actually see the passing of a train, let alone noticing a tail lamp. I have a train simulation called SimSig which perfectly reflects block signalling.