Sad State Of This Game

[Vern]

There's always going to be a point at which stuff that was once expensive becomes cheap or free.

I paid the princely sum of £5 for Elite Dangerous and probably getting a better experience (judgement reserved on this new 3.0 update) than those who paid £40 or piled money into the KS.

Likewise Trainz - TANE, you could back it on the KS or wait until it is cheap as chips on Steam.

And this having to own payware to run a freeware route is how DTG have operated with Railworks/TS20xx for years. You reference assets from payware DLC and it is the user's choice whether to buy those products if they wish to run your free effort. Done that with most of my RW projects and in some cases 4 or 5 routes worth over £100 at full retail have been required to run it. If people don't like it, tough. Mind that door swinging on yer way out!

 

[boleyd]

Valid points OR amateur lawyers (millions on the web) showing their ignorance over a little known entertainment product. One of these opinion pieces pops up periodically. All of the Alpha types chime in and then it fades away. I still covet the trees. They are the best. I immediately replace any N3V trees with them when I acquire a route.
Dick

 

[Vern]

Sadly also a consequence where you mix and permit freeware and payware in the product and the two interests clash in the middle, whether it's people referencing payware assets in their freeware routes or freeware authors seeing £££$$$ signs in their eyes and deciding to sell their stuff instead of contributing to the community.

 

[cascaderailroad]

A freeware route will still run, without acquiring/buying the payware assets

 

[wilts747]

I'm a Linux user which revolves around open source software and freeware far more than any aspect of Trainz will ever do. With open source software effectively I can do what I like with it from modifying it, publish it, distributing it and so forth but I cannot sell it because I do not own it and it is not mine to sell. However I am legally entitled to charge for any media I put it on and/or any of my own work, or others work with permission, I may bundle with it. I may even purchase copies of payware to bundle with something I either give away or sell as do computer manufacturers with the likes of Windows and other software. None of us own Windows, or the likes of the other so called free software bundled with our purchases. Our right with a raft of limitations is only to use it and while I appreciate the points made in the original post unfortunately this is today's real world like it or not.

Secondly unlike open source software the users of freeware with few likely exceptions do not own it, but with the good will of other we the users have been given permission to use it without charge. That permission however generally comes with a list of limitations to protect the author who may if they so wish allow other to bundle it with something they themselves will be giving away or selling. Peter

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

So that we can eliminate any misinderstanding, please provide the follwing:

1. Name and KUID of the route in question
2. List of KUIds tht may not be available to people who don't own certain versions (and which versions those might be)
3. What % of the total route is available via the DLS.

Nothing currentlypreventsa user uploading a route to the DLS wher 100% of the content is hosted on a 3rd part y site. We could introduce rules where 100% must be on the DLS. Or we couldtry for some middle ground.

But let's get closer to analysing exactly what the problem is potentially before we try to postualte solutions.

 

[22alpha]

Tony the problem is the OP hates Jointed Rail and it's members. Jointed Rail is evil and they are out to destroy Trainz and all of it's users lives. We would like to apologize in advance for all the pain and suffering we have caused with this route being released. We're sorry for the content, we're sorry for the updates, and we're sorry for ruining this game.

Just kidding, we're not sorry. Hope you all are enjoying the route!!

(For those participating in the class action lawsuit, please wait as we have more routes coming. It will be better to sue all at once instead of on a route by route basis)

Mike

 

[hiawathamr]

Tony the problem is the OP hates Jointed Rail and it's members. Jointed Rail is evil and they are out to destroy Trainz and all of it's users lives. We would like to apologize in advance for all the pain and suffering we have caused with this route being released. We're sorry for the content, we're sorry for the updates, and we're sorry for ruining this game.

Just kidding, we're not sorry. Hope you all are enjoying the route!!

Mike

LOL :hehe: (10 chara)

 

[paulhobbs]

Tony, the only problem is the OPs habit of quoting alternative facts and their fragile grip on reality.

Paul

 

[mcguirel]

I don't agree, IMHO this post is in violation of CoC #13 and the picture you are linking to in your sig certainly is. Post reported.

Paul

As others clear suggest, it is a reference only and therefore not part of anything :hehe:

As for the comment by Mike, personal opinion was never interjected into this discussion. While I have my personal view, those are for you to assume and surely you do. As you are a very wise business man, you of all people know this topic of discussion more than most. If you felt you needed to defend yourself which is a right, I never named you. This suggests to me you might see the legitimacy of this discussion, but I will clearly state I am not a mind reader. Guilty conscious?

Tony Hilliam, the route in discussion is the Tide Water Route owned by TS2006 owners or who have downloaded updated versions by other authors via the DLS. I am sure by now you can link the other necessary information by doing your own homework. In its free updated version hosted on a third party site, it is unusable and while I never disrespect the efforts put forth this skirts so much potential concerns it isn't funny.

As for all others, I know a lot more information than I justify is appropriate for public written communication. As for the legal side of things, I never confess to being a copyright lawyer as I am a professional photographer and have had to deal with copyright and incorporation details that justifies I have more of a background than any of you realize. You're personal opinions do not matter and this topic of discussion is not personal as clearly up to this point until further detailed information has not been provided by me until requested by Tony Hilliam.

Carry on, close, or otherwise if you feel this is a popcorn post. My points have been spoken. Any of the noise within to redirect or to cloud the a potential serious issue is just that. One more thing to ponder: If the assets are not embedded in some form in the route file, please try to open up the route without the .map file among the other coded files. Also ask yourself how missing assets are known when looking at the route and what assets they are and there location? Have A Wonderful Day.

Amazing what is available thru the power of the internet as I know there are others who find what has happened in this instance to be very concerning. This route is almost exactly the same as part of TRS2006 minus some simple scenery modifications utilizing tools within T:ANE.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Just stopping in to say this thread is solid gold.

 

[pitkin]

I will not pretend to understand the intracacies of the original argument. However, I do think that part of the issue is that so many now feel that they should not have to pay for anything just because it is on the web.

Someone has to ultimately pay for the website time and traffic on JR, and on the Trainz forum and DLS, etc. People pay $15 for a 6-pack of designer beer, but do not want to pay $20 to N3V or others for content. The amount of free content on the DLS is staggering. And, most routes included in Trainz versions are editable if you save it under a new name.

I am not a content creator per se, but I am a scripter. All my rules and driver commands have always been freeware. ( I would upload more, but they are mostly broken now in HF1:'(). One of my commands has been downloaded I think 85,000 times. But others may choose to charge for their creations. No one is forced to buy them.

Illegal excesses should of course be called out. But really, would not our activities have a bit of a hole in them if Trainz were to go away?

 

[Griphos]

I will not pretend to understand the inanities of the original argument.

FIFY

I don't really want to participate in this thread. I'm not sure I fully understand the structure of this strange sim's intricate route/assets/files relationships. But, I feel compelled to note that the talk of litigation is groundless. And the OP demonstrates a tenuous grasp on the relation and nature of fact and opinion.

I'm quite unhappy with the "sad" state of the world in many ways. This particular practice of "free" route and paid content packages, while perhaps somewhat irritating to some extent, hardly seems to rise to the level of problem worth any of the angst spent in this thread. I'm pretty sure no one is under any pressure to participate in this practice against their wishes.

 

[meatloaf747]

My 2 cents worth,

I personally don't have a problem with "__'s" updating an older route that was/is freeware and then revamping the route and adding some payware content into the route. As long as the route remains freeware and you have the option to purchase the added payware content package, then that's fine with me. -*- No one is forcing anyone to purchase the added payware contents package.

I assume "__'s" would have got permission from the original route creator or (copyright holder) to offer the updated route as freeware from their web-site.

I've personally always been impressed with what "__'s" web site has to offers in the way of both freeware & payware. The bandwidth that is used when Trainzers download "freeware" from this site must be expensive & has to be paid for somehow.

As someone else has already mentioned in this thread, "no one forces anyone to purchase anything, if they don't want too". (payware contents package optional). Another thing to remember is "these routes are editable"...

Happy Trainzing everyone...

Cheers, Mac.

 

[pdkoester]

I do believe there's NOBODY holding your hand to the pay now link, right?

 

[gawpo50]

Tony the problem is the OP hates Jointed Rail and it's members. Jointed Rail is evil and they are out to destroy Trainz and all of it's users lives. We would like to apologize in advance for all the pain and suffering we have caused with this route being released. We're sorry for the content, we're sorry for the updates, and we're sorry for ruining this game.

Just kidding, we're not sorry. Hope you all are enjoying the route!!

(For those participating in the class action lawsuit, please wait as we have more routes coming. It will be better to sue all at once instead of on a route by route basis)

ROFLMFAO......good one Mike

 

[dangavel]

Such a shame that some of us who post here are hell bent on just creating acrimony ...
. Hate is a really bad thing folks, it eats yer up, best let bygones be bygones , you'll feel a lot better in the long run

As to the post, just replace the assets with free stuff, or don't use the route, its your choice, and anyone with 2006 can still run it with the free content.

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

I just came here to drink milk and kick ass. And I've just finished my milk...

 

[Retro00064]

This broadcast is brought to you by the law office of Dubya, Tee, and Heff. Call 1-800-0WT-HEFF for a free consultation.

 

[trainman7765]

McGuirel has proven once again that it has a personal vendetta against Jointed Rail and is only doing this to cause drama with the team. I purchased this route and I can assure you the $40 is well worth it. The seasonal trees combined with multiple different industries is a great combination. Somehow, I feel this thread has been made out of spite. McGuirel has made a business out of trees for quite a while and I feel that said user may feel threatened or annoyed that their archenemies JR is now going into their area of expertise. Its time to grow up mate.