"Running a Railroad" - Creating a working railroad - How? Advice please.

[1611mac]

In almost two years of Trainz'ing, I've Driven trains, ran Sessions, created Sessions, Dispatched, made small Routes, beta tested, setup simple AI operation, etc, but I've never setup an "Operating Railroad" and allowed it to run under AI. I'm not even sure how to start. So many things seem critical. The proper Route, correct industries, knowing how to tame AI trains, general knowledge of railroads and schedules. General Railroad operation. Yet there seems to be so little information on creating such with Trainz, and as far as I know, a route setup specifically for doing this does not exist. (does it?)

How does one even begin to start to do this? I'm intrigued by those who say "I've never driven a train, I operate a Railroad."

 

[MP242]

On my route I would run a long distance, high speed, non-stop, terminal to terminal, AI through freights, from Harrisburg/Enola to Pitcairn, or from to Harrisburg/Enola to Pittsburgh/Conway, or versa visa.

Sort the cars in those classification yards, and assemble them for delivery on either: EB, or WB trains.

Then run an off hours "Local" clean up, AI freight transferring those sorted cars, to local smaller yards like Johnstown, Altoona, Huntingdon

I don't have much experience with AI, but I have tried various AI: STW Drive (SwedishTrainzWorks), Run, Just Run, Drive, Just Drive, AutoPilot, etc, etc

In fact I mostly use Manual control to actually run local, transfer trains, sitting inside the cab, with "Hands On" the control stand levers, just like real train engine crews do.

My passenger trains would either be hot shot express, non-stop, through trains, from Harrisburg to Chicago, or versa visa, or locals stopping and pausing for 5 min, in Lewistown, Huntingdon, Mount Union, Tyrone, Altoona, Johnstown, Greensburg, etc, etc

 

[1611mac]

On my route I would run a long distance, high speed, non-stop, terminal to terminal, AI through freights, from Harrisburg/Enola to Pitcairn, or from to Harrisburg/Enola to Pittsburgh/Conway, or versa visa.

Sort the cars in those classification yards, and assemble them for delivery on either: EB, or WB trains.

Then run an off hours "Local" clean up, AI freight transferring those sorted cars, to local smaller yards like Johnstown, Altoona, Huntingdon

I don't have much experience with AI, but I have tried various AI: STW Drive (SwedishTrainzWorks), Run, Just Run, Drive, Just Drive, AutoPilot, etc, etc

In fact I mostly use Manual control to actually run local, transfer trains, sitting inside the cab, with "Hands On" the control stand levers, just like real train engine crews do.

My passenger trains would either be hot shot express, non-stop, through trains, from Harrisburg to Chicago, or versa visa, or locals stopping and pausing for 5 min, in Lewistown, Huntingdon, Mount Union, Tyrone, Altoona, Johnstown, Greensburg, etc, etc

So you had the knowledge to build the route, then plan and setup the operation. Where did that knowledge come from? Years of interest and having in your head? Years of using Trainz and building routes? How many years to set all that up?

 

[MP242]

My military acronym is: KISS (KeepItSimple) just run the Trainz without all the complex triggers and programmable assets, and AI, (which usually fouls up anyway, no matter how hard you try).

I worked for the RR and inspected drafts of railcars, I soon learned that they were all pre-sorted, for going somewhere, or another, for eventual re-sorting, and back shipment to local industries.

So far I have only 1 industry on my route, the Conemaugh Power & Light coal fired electrical power generation station in New Florence PA.

 

[pitkin]

There is a point of diminishing incremental returns on most activities. If you go too far and become frustrated, then you need to back off. I have found that point to point unloading/loading for 2 industries max per operating session holds my interest.

 

[kcwright_rm]

so, what kinda RR do you want? (like what kinda signaling system, like ABS, CTC, etc., and what type of line, like a branch or a main)

 

[1611mac]

so, what kinda RR do you want? (like what kinda signaling system, like ABS, CTC, etc., and what type of line, like a branch or a main)

Yes, exactly! What kind of railroad do I want? That is one of my problems. I'm 67 years old and always loved trains but I only became a "fan" a few years ago. That's what prompted my purchase of TRS19 Early Edition (I had no clue as to what I was buying.) I work from home (websites and such) and watch train cams all day. I read several train mags. On Trainz I run all types of routes. My "niche" hasn't emerged! I love local's and short lines but the same is true with the Class 1's.

So in short, I don't know what kind of RR I want! Logic would say, (as well as MP242 and pitkin's posts above) that something small and simple should be my beginning point. That sounds like a local to me.

 

[pitkin]

Why limit yourself to one kind of RR? I operated all different kinds depending on my mood.

 

[1611mac]

Why limit yourself to one kind of RR? I operated all different kinds depending on my mood.

I've imposed no limit myself but I have to start somewhere. And I want to restate that I'm looking to simulate SOMEWHAT realistic railroad operations. Not just drive trains around. I've done a lot of that. It seems like you'd need a lot of knowledge. ie: OK, I've got a yard, a coal industry, freight customers, intermodal, etc... now what do I do with them? How much traffic? How much sorting? How many runs a day? A week? etc etc. Seems almost too overwhelming to me to be anything close to prototypical. I need a starting point.

 

[JCitron]

I'm all for KISS. On my very operational Gloucester Terminal Electric route, I have a dozen AI drivers handling the trolley system while I have other AI drivers traveling between portals on either end of the mainline. The portal AI run outside traffic. They don't interact with each other and simply serve as feeders for addition freight and I interchange freight with them on the mainline manually. In addition to the freights, there are also a few commuter trains running between each end that make a couple of stops at the commuter stations on the route.

For other activities, I do the driving. I'll switch the freight cars in the large freight yard located at Gloucester near the mainline, and then do the local switching run down to the harbor and off to the other industries. The route has been modified a lot since its first inception as a simple switching route with an interchange with the Boston and Maine as designed by George Fisher originally. Instead of sharing the mainline in many places, I've moved the freight off the mainline to allow the trolleys to have full use while I switch the waterfront. This is a bit less harrowing for me, but it made a bit more complex traffic situation because I have to plan the crossing over the mainlines carefully, and from an operations standpoint it means waiting a long time, a very long time sometimes, for the AI traffic to dwindle down so I can slip in the window and cross the mainline without getting caught by the AI. This is where I wish we had a separate dispatcher module to allow for better control. The EITs work well here for this and I have one setup at the yard entrance where it crosses the main line.

Anyway, this operation can run for many hours without any intervention if I allow it.

So how did I do this?

I planned. I didn't just add commands and go, I used an Excel spreadsheet, Open Office Calc would work as well, to setup my schedules. My first plan was to setup "divisions" so that I could separate the routes. I broke the route up as I would group the schedules using the irreplaceable Schedule Library. This process took some time to work out the details, and a bit of troubleshooting afterwards.

My driver setup and commands are simple. Being a mostly passenger oriented route, I setup the schedules with Drive to/Navigate to - Load with some track marks required to direct the AI on to specific routes where there are some junctions such as Rogers Street to West Gloucester line, which requires a turn loop to reverse directions. The trolley drivers repeat this schedule endlessly unless I stop them and send them to the car barn.

This planning paid off because when I got all the commands into the Schedule Library and then the copy-commands from into the driver's schedules, the process took only a couple of hours to get things setup. This setup time, however, did not include setting up industries and placing freight cars around at the various industries, which vary between simple warehouses to a concrete and quarry operation. That industry utilizes its own locomotives and I drive and switch it manually, but the over the road freights from Gloucester bring in empties for switching - yet another thing to work out the logistics on and this operation too can get complicated as well.

On my much bigger Ozark Valley and Western, a merger and acquisition-type route of multiple routes including the namesake Ozark Valley, East Kentucky, and other routes all smashed together, I utilized the same process. Being a much larger route, this took a very, very, and I mean very long time to configure the coalmines, and other interactive industries located through out the route all in addition to programming ATLS and TRC crossings located all over the place, and setting up the drivers. This route, however, tends to fall down after a few hours of driving due to its size, but it does run well after I did some troubleshooting due to selecting the wrong track marks or needing to add in additional ones through out the route in various locations.

Again I used the spreadsheet to work out the various divisions. The divisions are subdivided into smaller parts, and each of these parts becomes a set of driver commands in the ever-so-useful Schedule Library. Once the commands are loaded into the Schedule Library, it was only a matter of configuring the drivers in the portals and elsewhere, and then pressing the "go" button and let things operate.

 

[MP242]

If you have ever "watched trains", you will find that there is only @ 1 train per day, from any given terminal.

Some trains originate from far away yards like Oak Island yard in NJ.

Some of the train is returning empty Tropicanna OJ refers from Kearny NJ headed back to Bradenton FL, along with many loaded NYC absolutely gagingly putrid trash train cars tagged on behind, for shipment south to landfills, along with several drafts of merchandise and industrial commodity cars thrown into the mix, to be broken up at various yards along the line.

During WWII there were upwards of 350 passenger troop trains per day, today you are lucky to see 1 or 2 passenger trains per day.

At one time when freight revenue was at it's peak, it would be common to see 75 freights per 24 hour day, on the CSX and NS lines. Oftentimes there is an absolute lull of zero trains in a 5 hour period, then an onslaught of half a dozen in 2 hours time, headed in both directions.

All trains originate on a scheduled departure time, but many are extremely late because of mechanical failure, or may sit sidelined on a siding, awaiting rescheduling till the next day. Dispatchers give track clearance to a train when ever they eventually show up at an interlocking or yard. No schedules are set in actual stone, except for passenger trains, and a twice per week single refrigerated produce train from CA to NY, which has a guaranteed 72 hour express clearance around all other trains.

 

[boleyd]

I am in the same category as you. My approach is to use AI. But you stir senses of logic that tell me I am wasting my time unless I want to fiddle scripts. If your also require good looking environments Trainz offers fine visual settings and trees do not have AI type problems. I suggest a pre-made route. Free routes are best so that you have no constraints. Older routes with TANE era trees and textures can easily be updated. Bulk Replace is your best friend. I live in the coal region of PA, with a mine beneath my house. It has been there for 100 years. so, lots of Trainz coal - gets and dump. A major theme/region is a good starter - cattle coal, tobacco, sugar, steel, grain,etc. I also use on my AI stuff (might go driven) Turf (very recent), with the PLUS membership. If you want to be the Big C.E.O then AI is the way. Or, you could be the dispatcher for AI. Otherwise driving may be best.

My AI adventures have been going on for 6 months with an excellent route I adapted by MSGSAPPER. But taming AI is getting real old....

 

[MP242]

A lot of modern mainlines are single track, with many passing sidings, this can make for cornfield meets, and Mexican standoffs, when 2 opposing trains fight for trackage rights on a single track main.

What size is your layout needs ?

Someone may build a route for you, or recommend one that is on the DLS.

If I were to build a small dead end route like the PRR Belefonte Central, it was only @ 12 miles long, and had one central Sunnyside yard. It only had limestone trains, and lumber mill trains, and a Clasters steel mill industry, along with several other industry sidings, and branch lines. Passenger trains in the early 1900's were once per day, from Tyrone to Bellefonte to Williamsport, and Lewistown, and @ 2 freights per day coming in, and going out from/to Milesburg junction, and to West Penn Power & Light plant.

There also was an 1860's switchback rwy called the Grassflat Snowshoe Gumstump line into the PA coalfields, as well as the 36" NG Wopsononock RR (Wopsy), that had @ 2 passenger trains per day up to the Wopsononock Resort hotel, and into the coal fields and timber areas (ceased SG operation in 1920).

The first routes I downloaded were: "The Loops", and an absolute 5 base board wonder: "Down East Fishing Village" (which has bad high poly framerates) by GFisher

 

[kcwright_rm]

take a look at the P&B by approach medium on JR, that has a bit of everything on it, i am very good with timetables and railroad structuring if you want something else

 

[1611mac]

Thanks everyone. I have P&B and a ton of other routes with which I could start with. Freeware might be best. Guess I'll just pick one with what I'd like (industries, yards, etc) and start scheduling some trains. Perhaps I'm just thinking too much and it would be better to just do something to get started. Even if its something simple. As I've said, I've ran many routes, with supplied sessions and some of my own sessions but I've never really ran a "schedule" and kept things moving as a "railroad."

No special "needs" here - just a place to start. All ideas welcome.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

A lot depends on how complicated you want the session to be. The simplest way of doing this is to give your trains a basic timetable which is set up to avoid clashes with other trains on the route. A lot of this is trial and error until you get everything just right but it can be done.

If you want to get a bit more complicated then you will need to learn how to use variables which allow trains to make decisions on the fly. You will also need to tame the AI using path setting to prevent the AI from making it's own decisions. I use P Guy's Enhanced Interlocking Towers and Mission Codes to take all decision making out of the AIs hands. It does take time to learn how to use them properly but once mastered you will be able to control the AI with little difficulty. At the moment I am using a modified Powder River Basin route to run fully automated trains randomly so that every time the session runs it will be different. There are 11 mines on this route and trains enter from four portals, One in the North and three in the South. When a train is spawned it runs a schedule where a randomly created number is used to decide which mine that train will service. The trains run on an out and back basis. The Schedule Library is essential for this as the random number will cause the correct schedule to be copied into the trains schedule.

If you have the time and patience you can get the Shedmaster rule and its associated rules and driver commands from http://www.simtrainz.co.uk/

This will allow industries to call for trains when they require servicing which will cause the trains to run in a more normal way. It is quite complicated but I've found it well worth the time taken to learn it. Locos are waiting at a motive power depot (MPD) and the shedmaster rule will allocate them to a train when required. Once the loco has completed its task it is then returned to the MPD to await its next turn of duty. I've successfully used this with a modified version of the EVWR route by dermmy (unfortunately his website where it was hosted is now closed).

This route has three coal unloading points and two ethanol plants that require grain to be delivered. Ethanol tankers are also needed to remove the ethanol that has been made. There are two large yards, one at each end of the route where loaded coal and grain wagons are store along with trains of empty ethanol tankers. These are all called to the various industries by Shedmaster monitoring their queues and deploying the locos to the trains as required. You will have to manipulate the industry queue so that the indistries don't call for another train before the first one has go back to the yard.

Wherever possible I try to use realistic routes by which I mean ones that are as prototypical as possible. These generally work better than the imaginary routes as they generally have better track layout and signalling. Another tip is not to use over long routes as a lot of testing is involved. The Powder River Basin route mentioned above is fairly long and an out and back run in the worst case can be in excess of five hours running time. When debugging the session it extremely frustrating to get four and a half hours into the session and find a bug. The EVWR route is shorter and a run from one of the yards out and back to and industry is usually less than two hours.

One other thing is to not overload the route with trains. On the Powder River Basin route mentioned above I usually have less than one train emitted per hour from each of the three southern portals and between two and three from the northern one. The route can look a little sparse with trains to begin with but after a couple of hours of running it will soon start to fill up. If you have too many trains on the route at one time they can start to get in one anothers way with, for example, three or four trains arriving at the same mine within half an hour. It's very unlikely but it can happen.

A final point is that you will most likely find it necessary to modify any route that you use. Quite often they will require modifications to the trackwork and signalling to enable you to perform realistic operations. I can't think of a route that I have been able to use straight from the DLS, which will make it impossible to upload your sessions to the DLS unless you get permission to upload the modifed route first.

Regards

Brian

 

[kcwright_rm]

here is a generic out line for a local freight, on an signaled line:

Yard A-town A----Town B--Industry A-----------------Industry B,C,D,&E-Town C--------Town D-----------industry F--town E-Yard B

Train L229:
Conductor: Train L229 to dispatch, over
dispatch: this is dispatch over
conductor: this is train L229 requesting permission over the branch
dispatch: (checks in with tower operators and other trains) Town A greenblock, Town B greenblock, town C redblock.
(basically the trains ask what the invisible signals read along the line, the "station" at each town is where they are)

 

[RHKluckhohn]

Where to start? Let's consider the basics:
Railroads exist to move people and/or stuff from one place to another.

What kinds of train do you see yourself happy with?
Are you a driver or dispatcher or both?
How much time do you want to block out to drive or dispatch?​

Answering those questions should give you some guidance.

Next, how much time and effort do you want to spend creating your route?
Do you want mountains or prairie, or both? Lots of water or not?
Cities or smaller communities?
Many industries or a few bulk commodities?

Keep in mind that an interchange is a universal industry.

I suggest you shop around in the available freeware routes and see what suits your fancy, then start to develop your personal route.

It can take as much time and effort to develop a compact but highly-scenic route as it does a large sketched-in route. How much non-railroad detail do you want to work in?

Personally, it makes me happy to spend an hour or two getting from A to Z and if there's work to do at M and T, so much the better. A small route with low speed restrictions or a larger one with higher speeds can work out about the same.

Read Trains or Model Railroader to get ideas. I started with the "Iron Ridge & Mayville" plan from 101 Track Plans and wound up with 30 miles from Iron Ridge to Fond du Lac -- see the Fond Du Lac Branch on the DLS for a high-scenery low speed lots of work route, or port up Marias Pass Approach from Trainz 12 for a 50-odd mile run with less detail. But you've probably got enough experience by now, you just need to organize your wanna's.

Good luck and stay well,
:B~)

 

[1611mac]

Hello all. Thanks very much for the replies. A great community! Lot's to think about here with some great ideas and advice. Again, my thanks to everyone who replied.

 

[MP242]

In these troubling times I need lots of friends.

Perhaps I can assist you with Trainz

Feel free to PM me anytime

I had lots of fun reconstructing gradients, and kickback gradients, in my yard last night. I can now "Hump" (free roll) an entire train of loaded coal hoppers, and unload them at 3 mph, watching 200 of them coast to a slow stop, without rolling out the yard throat exit (without using any retarders at all). I like to run 1 mile long loaded coal trains, and send them to be unloaded at my Conemaugh Power & Light coal fired power plant in New Florence PA.