Re-use of DLS assets - dos & don'ts?

[Lataxe]

Although real life gets in the way, I'm slowly acquiring the knowledge and experience to build Trainz routes and sessions that aren't too clunky or cartoonish. One day I might even feel confident enough to upload one to the DLS. One day.

In trying to understand "best practice" for uploading a route/session, I've been trying to understand copyright issues around the various assets that (unavoidably) populate routes and sessions. I suppose there are routes/sessions where the author might make every single asset from scratch ... ? These seem rare, although some of the payware routes such as Murchison or S&C presumably come near. Most route/session authors seem to employ DLS assets made by others; and even freeware not on the DLS.

Confusion seems to arise when it comes to the various ways in which an already-extant DLS asset can be re-used.

Most asset-authors seem OK with the notion that their DLS asset "as-is" might be included in a freeware route uploaded to the DLS. Ditto sessions. Permission is usually needed to clone/alter such an asset - permission either globally given in the config file or acquired by PMing/emailing the author.

But what is the situation with other conglomerations of DLS assets in which there is no change to the assets included but merely their collection into a single KUID? Examples are: consists (several train vehicles made by one or more authors); speedtree groups (several individual speedtrees made by one or more authors, positioned into a group or copse).

I have dozens of consists (mostly British) saved in my User folder; I'm currently adding several speedtree groups after just figuring out how to clone & amend the Auran groups, substituting better speedtrees. Would it be an offence to upload these, either individually or as part of a route/session, if all the assets included in them are already on the DLS?

Any advice about the do's & don'ts would be most welcome.

Lataxe

 

[whitepass]

You can not upload a consist, there is no kind for it and Speedtree groups would not pass the CC.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

You can not upload a consist, there is no kind for it

I seem to recall leeferr getting very upset a while ago because someone had uploaded a consist (not the actual models) for his NYC Commodore Vanderbuilt loco and tender so it must have been possible at some point. To test it I've just downloaded the asset and installed it in TS12 HF4 and it shows up with the other consists that I have.

Regards

Brian

 

[JCitron]

Lataxe,

Remember stuff that's already on the DLS will be referenced and not uploaded by you. Instead it will be gathered and downloaded again to the new install. The only issue is of course 3rd party assets located off the DLS. For those we suggest placing a link in the description, or perhaps a readme.txt file somewhere (and telling us it's there in the description) in the route folder that has all the details about this. Third party sites is the biggest bane of Trainz today. They are beautiful assets in many cases made by so many creators. The problem is these assets get intermixed with DLS stuff and routes get uploaded. Unless we know to search and collect these things ourselves, we spend our time doing the KUID hunt.

SpeedTree groups may fall under a different category, but like consists you should seek the permission from the original creator of the individual components before uploading. Pofig, for example, does not condone placing his trees on the DLS. Although, some Russian guys have done this already. Other creators too might be a bit edgy too about this as well, so permission is a good thing.

John

 

[oknotsen]

You can not upload a consist

Yes you can. I got 4 of them on the DLS.
Example: "Passenger Acela".
There is no need for it though.

 

[Lataxe]

Lataxe,

Remember stuff that's already on the DLS will be referenced and not uploaded by you. Instead it will be gathered and downloaded again to the new install.

......

SpeedTree groups may fall under a different category, but like consists you should seek the permission from the original creator of the individual components before uploading. Pofig, for example, does not condone placing his trees on the DLS. Although, some Russian guys have done this already. Other creators too might be a bit edgy too about this as well, so permission is a good thing.

John

Mr Citron,

I understand but one of my questions is: what is the difference between uploading a route (lots of DLS items "gathered" & referenced) and uploading a consist or speedtreegroup (a lot fewer DLS items "gathered" & referenced in exactly the same way)? It seems no one gets all of the individual authors of DLS items to explicitly give their permission to reference their items in a new route; but for some reason the identical process when the upload is a consist or speedtreegroup might attract their ire.....?

I would avoid uploading any "gathered" group that contains references to assets not on the DLS, such as the pofig items you mention.

I understand the third-party non-DLS asset problem (the ensuing KUID hunt) and I would try to make a route for the DLS that only references DLS items. It is tempting to reference also some of the better non-DLS stuff about but I would only do so if it was unproblematic to get author permission and to collect any such assets into a single package hosted on a public server somewhere. Best avoided perhaps.

Some route builders seem to include items from Auran payware, such as the S&C. It's hard to know if this is generally liked or not. What percentage of Trainzers who like UK routes are going to have the S&C on their PC?

***

Mr Oknotsen,

You say about uploading consists:

"Yes you can. I got 4 of them on the DLS .... There is no need for it though".

Personally I would find DLS consists composed of historically-accurate groupings of locos and rolling stock very useful. Although I have many consists in my local folder, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if they are historically accurate. I suspect that there are many lads out there who could construct such accurate consists.

As you know, the Auran payware locos & rolling stock come as both individual items and properly-constituted consists. I find the consists useful since they have the right carriages in the correct order.

My play with speedtreegroups has also proved fruitful, as I can now cover large swathes of ground with various sorts or mixes of woodland, in various seasonal hues, very rapidly indeed. This is quicker and less repetative than creating a clump in Surveyor then copy-pasting it - although it would be useful if textures could be included as they can in copy/paste...

Lataxe

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning Lataxe
In both cases (route/session, and consists) the asset you create is simply referencing the original asset's kuid. It does not include the asset itself, just the kuid number. This is a base function of Trainz, and cannot be restricted by the license of an asset uploaded to the DLS. As such, consists are fully permitted to be created and released. We have moved the consists to actual assets, so that prototypical consists can actually be shared.

In the case of 'speedtree groups', you can create and release these so long as they do not include any of the original artwork in them (in other words, all they do is reference the appropriate kuid numbers). You can achieve this by using the mesh-asset tag. This method can apply to practically any asset in Trainz, and is again a 'base' function of Trainz that cannot be restricted by license.

If you do actually include any work from another author (e.g. scripts), then this will require you to obtain permission before release. But, if your asset simply consists of a config.txt file and a thumbnail, then there is nothing to prevent you from releasing the asset.

It is not necessary to obtain permission if you are simply referencing another asset.

Note, this applies to the DLS. If a 3rd party website places restrictions such as this on their page, then it may or may not be applicable. But, it may also mean that you cannot in any way actually use that asset (since routes/sessions reference /all/ assets used in them).

If you reference content from a 3rd party site or from payware, please ensure that you note this in the 'description' section of your config.txt file.

Regards

 

[leeferr]

Hi



I seem to recall leeferr getting very upset a while ago because someone had uploaded a consist (not the actual models) for his NYC Commodore Vanderbuilt loco and tender so it must have been possible at some point. To test it I've just downloaded the asset and installed it in TS12 HF4 and it shows up with the other consists that I have.

Regards

Brian

I hate to reopen old wounds, but yes I did get upset. I wasn't upset that a consist was uploaded, but by the fact that the consist was only the loco and tender and I was given absolutely no credit for being the creator of the content in the description in the consist upload. In my opinion, it left me with the impression that the uploader was trying to make it look like his content, and it wasn't. There was lots of debate back and forth. That's all in the past and there's obviously nothing that I can do about my content that's already on the DLS. So before it starts, let's not reopen that debate. Suffice it to say that consists can be uploaded although they're only references in the config to a list of different pieces of rolling stock combined into one download. When you download the consist, you still have to download the individual pieces of content unless you already have them. I'll end by saying that the consist can be a very handy concept if it's not abused. Let's please not get into another flamewar about it.

Mike

 

[Lataxe]

In both cases (route/session, and consists) the asset you create is simply referencing the original asset's kuid. It does not include the asset itself, just the kuid number. This is a base function of Trainz, and cannot be restricted by the license of an asset uploaded to the DLS. ......

In the case of 'speedtree groups', you can create and release these so long as they do not include any of the original artwork in them (in other words, all they do is reference the appropriate kuid numbers). You can achieve this by using the mesh-asset tag. This method can apply to practically any asset in Trainz, and is again a 'base' function of Trainz that cannot be restricted by license. .......

If you do actually include any work from another author (e.g. scripts), then this will require you to obtain permission before release. But, if your asset simply consists of a config.txt file and a thumbnail, then there is nothing to prevent you from releasing the asset.

It is not necessary to obtain permission if you are simply referencing another asset.

Mr Murphy,

Thanks for that clear advice, which I will follow.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I have insufficient knowledge to be confident that any consists I might "gather" would be historically acurate. It would be useful (to all Trainz users) if people who could build such historically accurate consists did so then uploaded them to the DLS.

For example, there are many British excellent private & RCH wagons on the DLS that have some geographical aspect, such as the name of the firm owning them & where they're based. It would be useful if someone knowledgable enough could build prototypical consist of these, with the associated loco from either BR or from pre-BR railway companies. Ditto British coaching stock & locos.

****

Perhaps I should upload one or two speedtree groups that are constructed as you describe - a config file referencing various speedtrees already extant on the DLS, with an associated thumbnail? Perhaps the config file should contain a description that acknowledges the author(s) of the referenced items and reminds that the license conditions specified in the config file of these referenced items still apply to those items, even if they are collected in a speedtree group..........?

I would like to reference the DLS speedtree mesh-asset tags of various trees by Mcguirel, for example, as they are very well done and also have seasonal variants. Yet I already feel a flinch coming on as I imagine Ms McGuirel giving me a blast for some kind of transgression! I really don't want to antagonise her.

Just to be sure I'm not doing something naughty, perhaps I can post an example of the process I would follow, here, to ensure that there is no transgression of the rules? An added benefit might be that I could show what I've learned so far about cloning/editing speedtree groups and perhaps also pick up some new knowledge about them. Maybe others would like to make some?

For example, I can get several single-season tree mesh-asset into a cloned speed tree group but can't find a way to get all the seasonal variants in to one working config file. Perhaps that isn't possible but maybe it is.
Is anyone else interested in developing speed tree groups? I'd be grateful for a discussion about it.

Lataxe