Rather than TS13 how about...
- Thread starter kd7eirjim
- Start date
Different developers, these N3V guys aren't a bunch of suffering sensitive types and they DO fix what they can eventually. Again priorities;
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...outing-Direction-Marker-lt-kuid-30501-1013-gt
I'm gonna get an answer to that one whatever it takes, but I'm waiting until the upload bot is fixed before I submit a helpdesk ticket - it would be kind of silly to expect them to drop the upload repair to fix something like that.
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...outing-Direction-Marker-lt-kuid-30501-1013-gt
I'm gonna get an answer to that one whatever it takes, but I'm waiting until the upload bot is fixed before I submit a helpdesk ticket - it would be kind of silly to expect them to drop the upload repair to fix something like that.
Of course, getting the creator to sign off on allowing them in Trainz is another thing.. and the fact they're all American
Jamie
William0d0
Active member
Of course, getting the creator to sign off on allowing them in Trainz is another thing.. and the fact they're all American
Jamie
If they uploaded it to the DLS then they already signed off on it.
If I were running NV3... I would look at what nationality of people are playing the game most... This is most likely, Aussies, Europeans and Americans... I would then update the graphics engine and then add more Aussie, European and American routes and rolling stock.... Plus doing more hours of beta testing before the game is released... But really, I have not had any issues with 12....
Getting into a wish list again - if they provide one example of each type of asset to use as a standard, the content creators can take it from there. Any game that has editors for creating mods or addons the developer's time is better spent working on the core of the game rather than making new content that could be done by the community. That's the main problem with railworks, they needed more and better programmers, instead they hired more artists to create new content.
yes. BUT thats why i say continue 2012 support. you are very very righ. i would loose so much content if they did this, but i belive that now is the right time to do it. they are really pushing for game updates with the newer graphics and speedtree and improved shadows, but in the end, its still just the same old engine, though an engine with sooo much commuity support.
but yes, you are right. maybey my idea is rarther flawed, but i just know its going to bite us or NV3 in the ass one day, and railworks (with its HUGELY controlled content (and hardly any mods)) will sail ahead with physics, graphics (yes, im a graphics lover (idiot)) and sound. yes auran have added an awful lot, vehicle shadows, speedtree, doppler sound, but its still on a rusty ol engine
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yes. BUT thats why i say continue 2012 support. you are very very righ. i would loose so much content if they did this, but i belive that now is the right time to do it. they are really pushing for game updates with the newer graphics and speedtree and improved shadows, but in the end, its still just the same old engine, though an engine with sooo much commuity support.
but yes, you are right. maybey my idea is rarther flawed, but i just know its going to bite us or NV3 in the ass one day, and railworks (with its HUGELY controlled content (and hardly any mods)) will sail ahead with physics, graphics (yes, im a graphics lover (idiot)) and sound. yes auran have added an awful lot, vehicle shadows, speedtree, doppler sound, but its still on a rusty ol engine
Read the RW forums. Most owners get very poor frame rates unless they turn their settings down and even then many report stutters and frame rates in the high teens and this is with very expensive computers with overclocked and liquid cooled everything. I just purchased a Payware route, Columbia River Basin, that has graphics that exceed what RW13 has, and I get frame rates in the 40-50's on that route with a cheap PC. So what am I to gain if Trainz redesigns their graphics engine? Usually, when game is re-programmed, they shoot for the upper end of the current PC market. That means people with older or less capable systems, have to immediately go out and get a new PC in order to run the redesigned game. You can see that on this forum, where people are running older versions of Trainz, because their computers can't even handle TS12. Then you add in the switch away from desktops, towards laptops and tablets, and that cuts down even further, the number of outlets for a redesigned engine that needs top of the line hardware to run on. This is what happened with FSX when it was released, and many people found out after they bought FSX replacing their FS9, that they had to go out and get a new computer to run it on. If Trainz is running well, and looking good now with the present engine, why should I buy a new version, and then have to go out and spend another $1,000 for a new PC, and buy all new content? That doesn't make any sense at all to me, unless I have money to burn, and time to waste having to redo everything to get back to where I was.
The RW AI doesn't work well either which is a biggie for me. It is inflexible and impossible to program for the user, and that was a big turnoff for me when I tried it. First thing I do when I get a new route, is put AI on it so it comes alive. You can't do that with RW, so you have to buy their pre-packaged routes and your stuck with the AI it comes with. So RW offers me nothing, especially when you add in the crummy physics. There are many current RW users that predict the demise of that sim on two different forums, because of the lack of good free content, and their new EULA, and their long time experienced users abandoning that platform and moving to something else. They can't even get multiplayer going. So again, I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the engine in Trainz is adequate for what it has to do, and the energy should be in creating new content, fixing the bugs that remain like the steam safety valves for instance, some issues with AI programming, and getting rid of the bug filled routes that are included with the game when you buy it. They just give Trainz a black eye, right off the bat, when you try and run your brand new program and little red bugs keep popping up on the screen, and stuff in the routes doesn't work.
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Bob
Most British Trainzers and a number of Australian users would disagree with dispensing with one of the biggest British routes on TS2010 (200 miles) and TS12 (300 miles). Surely one of the best things about Trainz is the variety of foreign routes available. You only mention US routes there are some good European routes as well.
Ken
I agee, and for some reason I can't seem to find many free Euro routes.I have S&C but of course that is payware.
Seems to be an assumption that just because the game engine has always had same name, it is exactly the same, anyone can see that the latest version is very much improved. In my case I'm comparing it to the earliest version I have which was a free demo from 2002.
Most game engines seem to evolve from the same base code, they might call it version 1,2, 3, 10 or whatever however underneath all the modifications it's normally the same base. Code is code and it can be manipulated to accommodate new hardware features. For all we know they may be designing a new engine for the future or revamping Jet but they are not likely to be announcing they are to the competition or raising hopes on here which may end in disappointment or people moaning that it isn't done yet.
Game engine development isn't usually a five minute job and has taken years in some cases.
As for bugs, Over the years, I've seen some far worse blunders with patches from the likes of ID software and Valve, whom I used to test for, which were 100% show stoppers, ok quickly sorted but then they have considerably more programmers to put on the case than N3V.
I say lets have a bit of patience and respect for what a small company like Auran / N3V has achieved with limited resources and long may they continue to do so.
Most game engines seem to evolve from the same base code, they might call it version 1,2, 3, 10 or whatever however underneath all the modifications it's normally the same base. Code is code and it can be manipulated to accommodate new hardware features. For all we know they may be designing a new engine for the future or revamping Jet but they are not likely to be announcing they are to the competition or raising hopes on here which may end in disappointment or people moaning that it isn't done yet.
Game engine development isn't usually a five minute job and has taken years in some cases. As for bugs, Over the years, I've seen some far worse blunders with patches from the likes of ID software and Valve, whom I used to test for, which were 100% show stoppers, ok quickly sorted but then they have considerably more programmers to put on the case than N3V.
I say lets have a bit of patience and respect for what a small company like Auran / N3V has achieved with limited resources and long may they continue to do so.
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http://www.trainzproroutes.org/tprdownloads/index.php
Here's one answer and i think its a darn good one.
Here's one answer and i think its a darn good one.
I do not use Trainz 2012 very often. I like heavily sceneried routes which makes the Checkrail routes my favorites. However, due to the basic route, and the stuff I add, I get stutters. Now would a better graphics program (aka "engine") fix that? I think it MIGHT. As to the argument of bigger PC for new release, that is why they have sliders. However, it seems to be Internet nature" to run everything at max and the complain that the vendor is forcing them to buy a new liquid hydrogen cooled PC. After all they paid money. I am partially in that camp because I want lots of stuff that nature and man has at trackside. I then need high slider settings. At cab level Trainz look great except for no shadows and toy tracks. But the stutters kill the illusion of reality. Thus I really want a better graphics core chunk of code so I can enjoy all of the potential in the program.
Kennilworth
Active member
Hi
I have followed this thread with a little interest and some boredom (heard the rants many times before). In my opinion the main fault with trainz is its versatility. By that I mean that it can be used by people who only want to drive or by people like myself who are more interested in the operational side of the railways and prefer to program the AI and watch the trains doing their thing. I think this versatility is the key to Trainz success. I've tried a couple of other train sims but I find just sitting there driving the same route over and over again extremely boring and find I need something more interesting to do.
I have bought every version of Trainz since 2004 and the fact that I can import routes, sessions etc from earlier versions is an important reason for that. Yes I occasionally have problems with faulty content which I repair wherever possible. I appreciate that some people find this a chore but it is a side to the sim that I have found enjoyable as I've learnt such a lot about how content works. As most if not all routes are built by amateurs i.e. unpaid people, it takes years to build them so this continuity is essential. I believe the ECML route that someone suggested could be dropped has about 8 years work in it already and is still being developed.
If a fresh start was made with a new graphics engine and all new content, where would all the new routes come from? It would probably take a couple of years for really good routes to trickle through from the route creators by which time many of the customers would have found new interests. A small company like N3V would be unlikely to survive that.
From a personal point of view I have thousands of hours invested in the ECML route with all the changes that I have made to it (I have 10 versions of it ranging from the 1970s to the present day) and I am sure that there are many people with similar projects out there. Does anyone seriously think that we would just drop all that time and effort simply to move to a new game engine? I certainly wouldn't as TS12 does what I want with very little problem and I congratulate N3V for what is, for me, a very satisfying piece of software. Your experience may differ but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Regards
Brian
I have followed this thread with a little interest and some boredom (heard the rants many times before). In my opinion the main fault with trainz is its versatility. By that I mean that it can be used by people who only want to drive or by people like myself who are more interested in the operational side of the railways and prefer to program the AI and watch the trains doing their thing. I think this versatility is the key to Trainz success. I've tried a couple of other train sims but I find just sitting there driving the same route over and over again extremely boring and find I need something more interesting to do.
I have bought every version of Trainz since 2004 and the fact that I can import routes, sessions etc from earlier versions is an important reason for that. Yes I occasionally have problems with faulty content which I repair wherever possible. I appreciate that some people find this a chore but it is a side to the sim that I have found enjoyable as I've learnt such a lot about how content works. As most if not all routes are built by amateurs i.e. unpaid people, it takes years to build them so this continuity is essential. I believe the ECML route that someone suggested could be dropped has about 8 years work in it already and is still being developed.
If a fresh start was made with a new graphics engine and all new content, where would all the new routes come from? It would probably take a couple of years for really good routes to trickle through from the route creators by which time many of the customers would have found new interests. A small company like N3V would be unlikely to survive that.
From a personal point of view I have thousands of hours invested in the ECML route with all the changes that I have made to it (I have 10 versions of it ranging from the 1970s to the present day) and I am sure that there are many people with similar projects out there. Does anyone seriously think that we would just drop all that time and effort simply to move to a new game engine? I certainly wouldn't as TS12 does what I want with very little problem and I congratulate N3V for what is, for me, a very satisfying piece of software. Your experience may differ but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Regards
Brian
Usually an improvement in the graphics engine, has to result in more capabilities possible for the program. This gives the CPU and GPU more data to process, requiring more speed, or in other words a more modern PC. No company investing in a new program is going to develop a program that will run on yesterday's hardware. They are thinking in terms of the future, so they are going to design it with tomorrows hardware in mind. Faster processors, faster data buses, more ram, SSD's etc...... Anything designed with that in mind, will struggle to run on the current systems that many people have today.
If you are getting stutters with TS12, then your current system is inadequate, plain and simple. It will never be able to run any new program designed for the future.
Well, again high horsepower can overpower inefficient code, that doesn't make it efficient. Some people cruise down the road at 60 in their Rolls Royce or Cadillac and have a smooth ride, the guy with the MG rattles all the fillings out of his teeth and loses his muffler at 30 - does the fact that expensive cars with soft suspension don't feel the bumps and potholes mean that the road wouldn't be better if it was repaved?
TrainzAreTheBest12
SD40-2 Lover
Wanna hear a Railworks Joke? Railworks. it simulates train to. :hehe:
I use an older version of Trainz for much of the reasons Bob stated back in post #68. It runs well on my 6 year old laptop, very well. Do I need a computer upgrade? You bet. Will I anytime soon? Nope. Not for the one pass time I use when all the other programs I use run well also.*
Now, would I upgrade for Trainz? In a heartbeat if they would do something substantial. Speedtree isn't it for me. Give me Railworks track tools and realistic turnouts, I'm in all day. I just can't see throwing computer power to maintain the status quo.*
To add to what has been said several times, hasn't N3V already started the move from older content with the release of TS2009? They introduced a life cycle policy, restricted uploads based on build number and added warnings to the program if you use content below that build number. The move is being made, stop being subtle and go for it. Will routes get broken, Yep. You have the replace asset tool to fix it. Also, dump all the inefficient content stuffed into the JA files for the error checker to ignore. You want new, start new at the source, the disc you sell.*
Personally I wish they would drop this version number garbage all together and start fresh. Is it going to be another complete DLS rebuild for faulty content every year? Going to get old soon. All they're doing is milking the old and hoping for new. If the community is your major source of content, reach out and help them instead of, "We want this now, figure it out". Until then it's a dog chasing it's tail.*
Like I said, my old MacBook Pro needs an upgrade. Not going to do it until it dies, my other programs require an upgrade or I get something substantial in the one game I use, Trainz. Until then, trains go around the tracks in TRS2004 just as well as the Mac version. Using Otto's Speedtree fix, I get acceptable frame rates in the Mac version. Give me the ability to turn off shadows, it would be VERY useable. I don't need 5000M draw distance. The 2500M I use now is more than enough for my use and Profig somewhat softened the blow when they stomped on Trunda's trees, somewhat.
Now, would I upgrade for Trainz? In a heartbeat if they would do something substantial. Speedtree isn't it for me. Give me Railworks track tools and realistic turnouts, I'm in all day. I just can't see throwing computer power to maintain the status quo.*
To add to what has been said several times, hasn't N3V already started the move from older content with the release of TS2009? They introduced a life cycle policy, restricted uploads based on build number and added warnings to the program if you use content below that build number. The move is being made, stop being subtle and go for it. Will routes get broken, Yep. You have the replace asset tool to fix it. Also, dump all the inefficient content stuffed into the JA files for the error checker to ignore. You want new, start new at the source, the disc you sell.*
Personally I wish they would drop this version number garbage all together and start fresh. Is it going to be another complete DLS rebuild for faulty content every year? Going to get old soon. All they're doing is milking the old and hoping for new. If the community is your major source of content, reach out and help them instead of, "We want this now, figure it out". Until then it's a dog chasing it's tail.*
Like I said, my old MacBook Pro needs an upgrade. Not going to do it until it dies, my other programs require an upgrade or I get something substantial in the one game I use, Trainz. Until then, trains go around the tracks in TRS2004 just as well as the Mac version. Using Otto's Speedtree fix, I get acceptable frame rates in the Mac version. Give me the ability to turn off shadows, it would be VERY useable. I don't need 5000M draw distance. The 2500M I use now is more than enough for my use and Profig somewhat softened the blow when they stomped on Trunda's trees, somewhat.
horsegoggles
Late to the Game...
I know I will regret this, anything I have ever posted anywhere, I have come to regret, but here goes. Three years ago I paid $29 for TS9, and over the Thanksgiving holiday I paid a discounted $24.95 holiday price for TS12. I've had $24.95 worth of fun over the last five days. Already got my moneys worth. and another 51 weeks to go.
I've been with Trainz since 2004 and now i have 12. Ts12 is the only virsion on my PC. I too will be glad when they come out with a Fix.
I've uploaded a few routes & sessions to find that when i download them there something wrong with them. The last one i found that the track was disconnect from the turntable. i checked this route more then i i worked on it just to make sure everything was right before i uploaded it.
I spents months @ 8 to 10 hours a day working and testing just to have it turn to ____.i will not try to upload another route.
Now with MP server down so much there none of the Mp routes running anymore. There were some running 24/7 but not anymore.
N3V needs to fix things soon or a lot of us are not going to be here. I have donejust like they said when i first joined that forget my family,friends,i've done that and gave up fishing,if i give this up i'll have go into a detocks center.N3V fix Soon.
I've uploaded a few routes & sessions to find that when i download them there something wrong with them. The last one i found that the track was disconnect from the turntable. i checked this route more then i i worked on it just to make sure everything was right before i uploaded it.
I spents months @ 8 to 10 hours a day working and testing just to have it turn to ____.i will not try to upload another route.
Now with MP server down so much there none of the Mp routes running anymore. There were some running 24/7 but not anymore.
N3V needs to fix things soon or a lot of us are not going to be here. I have donejust like they said when i first joined that forget my family,friends,i've done that and gave up fishing,if i give this up i'll have go into a detocks center.N3V fix Soon.
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