Honest discussion is one thing, but to keep regurgitating the same stuff over and over, in post and post, really gets annoying. You have been around here for a short time, and there are members of this forum that have been here for years and years, and when you just go on and on complaining about Trainz, and Auran, and NV3, it really ticks many people off that enjoy this game, and the forum and the support and help we get here. If you don't like Trainz, or the folks that support it and create add ons for it many times for free, than why don't you take a hike and get another game to play.
Rather than TS13 how about...
- Thread starter kd7eirjim
- Start date
Honest discussion is one thing, but to keep regurgitating the same stuff over and over, in post and post, really gets annoying. You have been around here for a short time, and there are members of this forum that have been here for years and years, and when you just go on and on complaining about Trainz, and Auran, and NV3, it really ticks many people off that enjoy this game, and the forum and the support and help we get here. If you don't like Trainz, or the folks that support it and create add ons for it many times for free, than why don't you take a hike and get another game to play.
First of all, many programs that ran on early version of Ms Os, can still run on the versions popular today. Apple is a different story, they sell iPads that they know will go in the dumpster in 2 years or less, because they design them that way. You pay your $650 and when the battery runs out you can use it for a coaster. That's why I don't buy Apple products. Microsoft just came out with a Flight sim about 8 months, nobody bought it because they couldn't run any of their legacy content on it, and it folded like a house of cards. Do you really think, if Auran designed a brand new sim, with all new coding that wouldn't run any of today's routes and add ons, that people would buy it and throw all their old content away? What would the new software design offer, 200 FPS, 3D, to make people want to give up what they have today, and start over again?
People still run MSTS that is almost a 12 year old software. MS decided there was no market for an advanced version and dropped the idea years ago. Then Microsoft dropped the idea of any new Flight sims after FSX until MS Flight, and they quickly bailed out on that. So I wouldn't bother holding up Microsoft as an example of how to run things. Their Windows 8 is looking like a total disaster, to the point where they fired the person responsible for creating it two weeks after it was introduced. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Apple to create any kind of simulator. In my opinion, Auran has a pretty good product, good graphics and physics, tons of free stuff much of it very good, reasonable performance on an affordable computer, and a supportive forum. And you don't have to join Steam in order to purchase it. For a small company, in a niche market, I think they do a pretty darn good job.
I agree with your last paragraph. I have downloaded some routes in the last month or so, a few by MGSsapper, and few others, that are fantastic. If I were running N3V, I would pull some of those old routes that are filled with bugs and poor frame rates like ECML, Southern China Route, Balezino-Mosti , and that probably very few people even run and replace them with some of the routes that are available and running great on TS12 today. So, pay the creator a flat fee, or a royalty fee for all the copies of the new version that is sold, to pay for the content.
Here are some examples of the routes that will really dress up a new version of Trainz, and they are free:
Clinchfield
Florida East Coast railway
Maine Central
Miyabi Coastline Railway
New England Coastal
New York to Boston
Sherman Hills Version 2
The Cotton Belt Route
The Loops
Thompson Creek and Eastern
UMR 2013 Summer
Wilson Mills and Mt Olive
WM and Band O mega Route Native Mode.
Thousands of miles of routes, that have already been tested by a multitude of users, virtually bug free, get good frame rates, and are ready to roll.
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yes very true. bet even high quality content 10 years ago made in an older game engine that is limited is still 10 years old. you could make the highest polly 300 hour build loco, and it still would be limeted in terms of pyhsics, particles and effects due to the games engine, hence why they should continue 2012 support, for all the hardcore mods, and start fresh. yeah it will be a HUGE blow, but hopefuly they would be able to pick up quickly
So you would be willing to trash everything you have on your harddrive to start over again with TS13 or 14. Microsoft thought that when they went from FS9 to FSX and it was years before many switched, and there is still a huge group that is sticking with FS9, mostly because of their investment in it.
Set the filter in content mangler for minimum build 2.9, never download anything older than that, takes care of any problems from older content without needing to muck around with old stuff on the DLS.
As for the rest, I agree with most of the complaints, but it's a question of priorities - at the moment the upload bot is on strike because there are no more twinkies, after that gets fixed they should do something - anything - with the tracklaying tools and the way splined switches are rendered. After that get to the wish list, and for crying out loud if they want content creators making things a certain way, provide examples to go by. Get an error message, look for a similar asset to find out how it should be configured, and there are none to be found in the built ins.
As for the rest, I agree with most of the complaints, but it's a question of priorities - at the moment the upload bot is on strike because there are no more twinkies, after that gets fixed they should do something - anything - with the tracklaying tools and the way splined switches are rendered. After that get to the wish list, and for crying out loud if they want content creators making things a certain way, provide examples to go by. Get an error message, look for a similar asset to find out how it should be configured, and there are none to be found in the built ins.
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How, exactly, do you fix the "No more Twinkies" strike? We may be doomed forever here. 
Although, I hear that Twinkies will still be available in Canada. I hope that we can work out some sort of trade with Canada, and that the upload server is not averse to Canadian Twinkies.
Although, I hear that Twinkies will still be available in Canada. I hope that we can work out some sort of trade with Canada, and that the upload server is not averse to Canadian Twinkies.I appreciate the fact that you have edited your original post. Obviously you have knowledge and experience in the field and you do highlight some real points that should be highlighted. Everyone knows it's best to present an argument sans emotion if possible to promote a true discussion.
Now that Sniper is aboard this one I only hope it doesn't degenerate into another "stupid picture posting thread" where those participating try to "one up" each other by posting pictures of internet memes we've all seen a hundred times!:hehe:
Now that Sniper is aboard this one I only hope it doesn't degenerate into another "stupid picture posting thread" where those participating try to "one up" each other by posting pictures of internet memes we've all seen a hundred times!:hehe:
Yeah, Sniper has a way of cutting though the BS and honing in on the subject at hand.....
Yeah, Sniper has a way of cutting though the BS and honing in on the subject at hand.....
I'm mystified. What you've posted seems to affirm what I posted, yet is completely opposite at the same time.
I respect Jim's knowledge and talent, but don't require a picture of a kitten or Darth Vader to understand it!
What it is, is what it is.
"posting pictures of internet memes we've all seen a hundred times!"
Well, if you insist, here's the upload bot;
Taking some of the gripes point by point;
1) What was promised? A functioning train simulation. Quick Drive is a perfect example. How the heck am I supposed to "Quick Drive" a train when they "forgot" to add a locomotive to ALL of the "Quick Drive" scenarios?
Agreed it should function as advertised, quick drive is not an example to me - I never use quick drive, it's simple and easy to create my own sessions;
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?306297-Beginners-guide-to-Trainz
Which can also be used for quick drive, I have all the built in consists disabled anyway.
2) Company + FUNCTIONING PRODUCT = FUTURE for company.
Okay, no brainer.
3) Bounding Box Bug = Try to use the controls such as the throttle in cab mode in and SD70. It DOESN'T WORK, and it HASN'T been fixed.
Got Raildriver, never click and drag pictures of controls, wouldn't notice if none of them worked.
4) N3V is responsible for insuring that the servers that they RUN THEIR BUSINESS ON are hosted by a REPUTABLE HOSTING SERVICE. I paid money to access the content that these servers are SUPPOSED TO be hosting. N3V is NOT PROVIDING ME WHAT I PAID FOR. Considering the sheer number of server related issues that they have, are they hosting this content on A FREE HOSTING PROVIDER or what? Because no REPUTABLE HOSTING SERVICE would provide such shoddy service levels.
Agreed. I've been over at trainsim.com since the beginning, it has problems maybe every other year instead of every other week, but the webmaster there ran dialup bulletin boards long before the internet existed so he probably has more experience keeping it running. The forum here I still have to open the "who's online" in another tab so I don't get logged out while typing a reply.
5) View Errors and Warnings shows NO ERRORS. but the asset still shows up in the missing dependency search. That is NOT HOW IT SHOULD WORK.
Agreed. All too often the KUID2 replacement subroutine screws the pooch, the error checker somehow knows there's an update but the update is an unknown KUID. And see the first post in the beginner's guide, all too often the download helper misses sub dependencies or sub-sub dependencies and you have to work your way down the "view dependencies" chain til you get to the bottom of why it keeps showing the missing dependency icon, manually downloading whatever it missed.
6) NO COMPANY that makes a product that RELIES ON A DATABASE has ANY EXCUSE for NOT having a COMPETENT database administrator on staff. They don't need thousands of staff on standby - JUST ONE COMPETENT DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR.
No opinion, since I have no clue how or who runs what. Again it's possible whoever runs it wasn't even born yet when Nels Anderson first started managing bulletin board systems so he needs more experience.
7) Sorry that the COMMON USE of "WE" bothers you. I have edited my post to replace it with "I." Comparing TS12 with Windows 8 as far as complexity and scale of issues is pure folly. I can assure you that based on problems per line of code, TS12 exceeds Windows 8 by several orders of magnitude.
Also no opinion, never saw Windows 8. Having been playing computer games and hacking programs since the TRS-80 back in 1979, I can tell you that none of the Big Three train simulators have nearly as many bugs as the first releases of The Elder Scrolls 1, Arena, or 2, Daggerfall. More recent games closer to home, Railworks had very few bugs in the beginning, but whoever is doing the patching and modifications to the original KUJU code kept adding new ones. What I've seen with N3V patches is they fix 30 things and break one thing that worked before, the railworks crew fixes one thing and breaks 30 others. MSTS the front coupler didn't work right, failed to release the "holding brakes" when you coupled on to a loose consist so when you were trying to drag six cars out of a facing point spur you needed full power on four engines. The one and only patch made the brakes release, but caused the program to crash about 75% of the time, it took several years and a hacker in Czechoslovakia to actually fix it so we could use the front coupler for switching.
Well, if you insist, here's the upload bot;
Taking some of the gripes point by point;
1) What was promised? A functioning train simulation. Quick Drive is a perfect example. How the heck am I supposed to "Quick Drive" a train when they "forgot" to add a locomotive to ALL of the "Quick Drive" scenarios?
Agreed it should function as advertised, quick drive is not an example to me - I never use quick drive, it's simple and easy to create my own sessions;
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?306297-Beginners-guide-to-Trainz
Which can also be used for quick drive, I have all the built in consists disabled anyway.
2) Company + FUNCTIONING PRODUCT = FUTURE for company.
Okay, no brainer.
3) Bounding Box Bug = Try to use the controls such as the throttle in cab mode in and SD70. It DOESN'T WORK, and it HASN'T been fixed.
Got Raildriver, never click and drag pictures of controls, wouldn't notice if none of them worked.
4) N3V is responsible for insuring that the servers that they RUN THEIR BUSINESS ON are hosted by a REPUTABLE HOSTING SERVICE. I paid money to access the content that these servers are SUPPOSED TO be hosting. N3V is NOT PROVIDING ME WHAT I PAID FOR. Considering the sheer number of server related issues that they have, are they hosting this content on A FREE HOSTING PROVIDER or what? Because no REPUTABLE HOSTING SERVICE would provide such shoddy service levels.
Agreed. I've been over at trainsim.com since the beginning, it has problems maybe every other year instead of every other week, but the webmaster there ran dialup bulletin boards long before the internet existed so he probably has more experience keeping it running. The forum here I still have to open the "who's online" in another tab so I don't get logged out while typing a reply.
5) View Errors and Warnings shows NO ERRORS. but the asset still shows up in the missing dependency search. That is NOT HOW IT SHOULD WORK.
Agreed. All too often the KUID2 replacement subroutine screws the pooch, the error checker somehow knows there's an update but the update is an unknown KUID. And see the first post in the beginner's guide, all too often the download helper misses sub dependencies or sub-sub dependencies and you have to work your way down the "view dependencies" chain til you get to the bottom of why it keeps showing the missing dependency icon, manually downloading whatever it missed.
6) NO COMPANY that makes a product that RELIES ON A DATABASE has ANY EXCUSE for NOT having a COMPETENT database administrator on staff. They don't need thousands of staff on standby - JUST ONE COMPETENT DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR.
No opinion, since I have no clue how or who runs what. Again it's possible whoever runs it wasn't even born yet when Nels Anderson first started managing bulletin board systems so he needs more experience.
7) Sorry that the COMMON USE of "WE" bothers you. I have edited my post to replace it with "I." Comparing TS12 with Windows 8 as far as complexity and scale of issues is pure folly. I can assure you that based on problems per line of code, TS12 exceeds Windows 8 by several orders of magnitude.
Also no opinion, never saw Windows 8. Having been playing computer games and hacking programs since the TRS-80 back in 1979, I can tell you that none of the Big Three train simulators have nearly as many bugs as the first releases of The Elder Scrolls 1, Arena, or 2, Daggerfall. More recent games closer to home, Railworks had very few bugs in the beginning, but whoever is doing the patching and modifications to the original KUJU code kept adding new ones. What I've seen with N3V patches is they fix 30 things and break one thing that worked before, the railworks crew fixes one thing and breaks 30 others. MSTS the front coupler didn't work right, failed to release the "holding brakes" when you coupled on to a loose consist so when you were trying to drag six cars out of a facing point spur you needed full power on four engines. The one and only patch made the brakes release, but caused the program to crash about 75% of the time, it took several years and a hacker in Czechoslovakia to actually fix it so we could use the front coupler for switching.
Probably. I keep checking the new white pages, whatever busted the upload bot this time didn't fool around about it, it really broke it good. Perception is a funny thing tho, I thought it was last June that it was down for over a week, a manual search (the forum search is still busted, don't get me started on that) found that it was actually June 2011. The recent September weirdness could be easily excused by the changeover to the new server - but what was all that with the new online shop? Got a brand new system for selling stuff, have a massive sale to promote the new shop before making sure all the bugs were out of it? I suspect that was the original poster's motivation here, the "what were they THINKING?!" reaction when companies look like they're deliberately shooting themselves in the foot.
You just have zero sense of humor, not that there is anything wrong with that...........
If you're enjoying Trainz, just continue to do so.....these hissy fits have been around as long as Trainz. Just know that Trainz was around long before the OP showed up a few months ago and will be here when he checks out....
Amen!!!!!!!!!!
I started reading at the beginning, then skipped to here....
Zec and AJ, I applaud your efforts.
FWIW, I still run 2004. It crashes from time to time, but I've figured out what content causes the problems. I soldier on. I don't stop. And I don't let anything get in my way. Know why? If the software was perfect, it would be a miracle, visions of Jesus would flash across our eyes, and the Endtimes would be upon us. And I realize that. And if I want to enjoy my TRZ for as long as possible, then I don't want perfect software. If it was perfect, then it would be boring. And the Endtimes would be upon us. So be grateful for bugs, as long as they don't wipe your drive.
Zec and AJ, I applaud your efforts.
FWIW, I still run 2004. It crashes from time to time, but I've figured out what content causes the problems. I soldier on. I don't stop. And I don't let anything get in my way. Know why? If the software was perfect, it would be a miracle, visions of Jesus would flash across our eyes, and the Endtimes would be upon us. And I realize that. And if I want to enjoy my TRZ for as long as possible, then I don't want perfect software. If it was perfect, then it would be boring. And the Endtimes would be upon us. So be grateful for bugs, as long as they don't wipe your drive.
Disagree completely with that, no griping means no progress, everyone should have hollered about those ridiculous switches back in 2002, so when I saw TRS2004 being demoed in December 2003 at a train show I would have bought it instead of thinking "it STILL doesn't look as good as MSTS!" If the original had improved enough over the years nobody would be using MSTS today, railsim/railworks never would have made it to the drawing board, Trainz could have easily cornered the entire market since they effectively had no active competition from 2002 to 2007. If nobody ever gripes that means either everything is perfect or they have already given up and moved on to something else - the only reason I'm here at all is because I gave up griping about railworks, left it to the fanboys who just want to drive toy trains instead of simulating railroad operations.
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