Lol, dude, you're one of the most sane people of all. Looking at the big picture, Trainz is the cheapest entertainment you'll find by far.
Rather than TS13 how about...
- Thread starter kd7eirjim
- Start date
Lol, dude, you're one of the most sane people of all. Looking at the big picture, Trainz is the cheapest entertainment you'll find by far.
You'll get more than 51 weeks more of enjoyment. Like anything else, the more you put into something that can take it, the more you'll get out of it. As an owner of previous versions, you should know this.
Like many of the longtime posters here, I've been with Trainz since TRS2004. I too tried the old demo in 2002 and only wished at the time that it would run on my system. I had a PIII with an ATI 8500 in it, and the program would die with either a black screen or crash to the desktop. I stuck with MSTS until TRS2004 came out. It's funny I wasn't looking for any updates in particular for Trainz, I just happened to look at the old, original Auran, website one day when I was cleaning up my favorites. I was excited by the 'new' version that was coming out, and waited to buy TRS2004 at CompUSA.
Now almost 8 years later, and I'm still with the same program, albeit the latest version. I still enjoy the thrill of sitting in the cab and driving or riding the route that I built. As a model railroader, this was something I wanted to do since I was 6 years old. Imagine a program like this back then. That would be in 1967, which is around the time when I got my original N-gauge Postage Stamp train set. As Brian (Kennilworth) said. Perhaps the problem is there's too much for everyone. Trainz isn't all about driving a set of preconfigured, premade routes. If I wanted that, I would have stayed with MSTS then moved on to Railworks. Like a real model railroad, made of plaster and plywood, there is so much that can be done in Trainz, that the only thing stopping someone is their ability and their imagination. You tell me what other program is out there today that even comes close to this. I have more banished programs and games in boxes on my shelves that I purchased, installed, then deleted. Why did I keep the programs and boxes? I really don't know. I felt it maybe I would give the programs a try at another time, but that other time never came. They've been abandoned and kept on the shelf.
Granted, like anything else in our imperfect world, Trainz isn't without its faults and limitations. Like any software we use, we learn those limitations and avoid doing things that don't work. If the developer is kind enough, they will provide us updates that we can replace our faulty versions. I feel too that N3V, like Auran, has tried really hard to provide updates and fixes to our beloved program. We really are pretty lucky to still have them around after the big company crash in 2006 or thereabouts. Like the OP, and many newcomers, they never saw the old company crash after the Fury mess. If it wasn't for TRS2006, and the Classics series, we wouldn't have what we have today. TRS2009 was a transitional product. I'm not sure how many people remember Tony Hilliam say that this is a developer's platform for content creators to learn how to build content using the new methods. TRS2009 lead the way to TRS2010, and finally to what we have today with TS12. TS12 is not perfect. There are still plenty of things that need fixing, and I too hope that there will be a fix some day.
Perhaps the griping we do here is because we love the program so much. This is like the parent or parents that scream and yell at their child because he or she hasn't tried hard enough at whatever they're doing. I agree there's plenty that N3V could do to make things better. Like better and more communications. So, let's hope they do listen to us and make some of those changes we've been asking for.
John
horsegoggles
Late to the Game...
You'll get more than 51 weeks more of enjoyment. Like anything else, the more you put into something that can take it, the more you'll get out of it. As an owner of previous versions, you should know this.
Like many of the longtime posters here, I've been with Trainz since TRS2004. I too tried the old demo in 2002 and only wished at the time that it would run on my system. I had a PIII with an ATI 8500 in it, and the program would die with either a black screen or crash to the desktop. I stuck with MSTS until TRS2004 came out. It's funny I wasn't looking for any updates in particular for Trainz, I just happened to look at the old, original Auran, website one day when I was cleaning up my favorites. I was excited by the 'new' version that was coming out, and waited to buy TRS2004 at CompUSA.
Now almost 8 years later, and I'm still with the same program, albeit the latest version. I still enjoy the thrill of sitting in the cab and driving or riding the route that I built. As a model railroader, this was something I wanted to do since I was 6 years old. Imagine a program like this back then. That would be in 1967, which is around the time when I got my original N-gauge Postage Stamp train set. As Brian (Kennilworth) said. Perhaps the problem is there's too much for everyone. Trainz isn't all about driving a set of preconfigured, premade routes. If I wanted that, I would have stayed with MSTS then moved on to Railworks. Like a real model railroad, made of plaster and plywood, there is so much that can be done in Trainz, that the only thing stopping someone is their ability and their imagination. You tell me what other program is out there today that even comes close to this. I have more banished programs and games in boxes on my shelves that I purchased, installed, then deleted. Why did I keep the programs and boxes? I really don't know. I felt it maybe I would give the programs a try at another time, but that other time never came. They've been abandoned and kept on the shelf.
Granted, like anything else in our imperfect world, Trainz isn't without its faults and limitations. Like any software we use, we learn those limitations and avoid doing things that don't work. If the developer is kind enough, they will provide us updates that we can replace our faulty versions. I feel too that N3V, like Auran, has tried really hard to provide updates and fixes to our beloved program. We really are pretty lucky to still have them around after the big company crash in 2006 or thereabouts. Like the OP, and many newcomers, they never saw the old company crash after the Fury mess. If it wasn't for TRS2006, and the Classics series, we wouldn't have what we have today. TRS2009 was a transitional product. I'm not sure how many people remember Tony Hilliam say that this is a developer's platform for content creators to learn how to build content using the new methods. TRS2009 lead the way to TRS2010, and finally to what we have today with TS12. TS12 is not perfect. There are still plenty of things that need fixing, and I too hope that there will be a fix some day.
Perhaps the griping we do here is because we love the program so much. This is like the parent or parents that scream and yell at their child because he or she hasn't tried hard enough at whatever they're doing. I agree there's plenty that N3V could do to make things better. Like better and more communications. So, let's hope they do listen to us and make some of those changes we've been asking for.
John
You're right about the more that 51 days, I thought about that after I had written it. I was very happy with TRS9 and debated whether I would use it enough to upgrade to 12. I ran it on my old computer, and when I replaced it a couple years ago, I completely forgot about installing Trainz. It wasn't until a couple weeks ago that I was reminded of how much enjoyment it brought, so I dug through my old hard drive and found it and installed it. I'm glad I did. In just the last week since installing 12, I've had a ball trying to figure out how to create content and import it to Trainz. I started with a simple sign with no lettering on it and then wanted a sign with lettering. I had a heck of a time trying to find info on what was the right thing to do. I must have searched a couple hundred sites looking for solutions. Digging for solutions is the fun part for me, although it doesn't always seem like it at the time. If everything worked perfectly there wouldn't be any challenge. Of course I understand that folks that have been doing this for a long time and are really into it can be frustrated because their expectations are greater than mine. I may get there too, but for now, the challenges are the fun part. A real railroad breaks, and people have to figure out how to fix it.
Jumping in fairly late in this thread... We all of course have our personal wishlist as to what we'd like to see in the next version of Trainz. I'm up there with Jim (Sniper) in updating the track drawing system so it creates proper turnouts at junctions and diamonds (the latter also recognised by the signalling system). After that fixing some of the more obvious bugs such as spline corruption at fixed objects (the thread I started about this the other week seems to have sunk without any further comment from N3V).
As a FCT holder I don't have any great issues with the DLS other than (sometimes) it can take more than one pass to find dependecies for an item, which sometimes have to be searched out manually. There's a lot of tired items which simply don't work in TS2012 and these should be flagged so the user can avoid. There's also still a glitch preventing me uploading my Hood River route, to which N3V also seem to have shrugged their shoulders and walked away.
Ultimately we don't know what resources N3V have in terms of both talent and cash reserves to overhaul the programme. It's almost certain the Trainz Division is much smaller than the RSC Railworks "factory" which of course limits the course of future development. In addition they have the distraction of creating versions for various gadgets and the Mac, which presumably diverts away from fixing and upgrading the core PC version. In summary, as I've said before, I would like to see a TS2013/TS2014 version but it needs to be more than just a cosmetic overhaul with a few routes requisitioned off the DLS.
As a FCT holder I don't have any great issues with the DLS other than (sometimes) it can take more than one pass to find dependecies for an item, which sometimes have to be searched out manually. There's a lot of tired items which simply don't work in TS2012 and these should be flagged so the user can avoid. There's also still a glitch preventing me uploading my Hood River route, to which N3V also seem to have shrugged their shoulders and walked away.
Ultimately we don't know what resources N3V have in terms of both talent and cash reserves to overhaul the programme. It's almost certain the Trainz Division is much smaller than the RSC Railworks "factory" which of course limits the course of future development. In addition they have the distraction of creating versions for various gadgets and the Mac, which presumably diverts away from fixing and upgrading the core PC version. In summary, as I've said before, I would like to see a TS2013/TS2014 version but it needs to be more than just a cosmetic overhaul with a few routes requisitioned off the DLS.
"amateurish"
IIRC the first release of Trainz was something like December 2001, if that's accurate we're coming up on the 11th anniversary. Like a lot of other MSTS users I tried the free playable demo sometime in early 2002, the track profile with the curved hump, the texture that looked like some kid laid matchsticks on a strip of paper, and the switches - ugh, those switches - turned me off, so I didn't buy it. Here we are 11 years later and the track profile is much better, the jointed rail tracks in TS12 are about as realistic as Marc Nelson's Scale Rail, yet the switches are still the same.
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?311379-Points
After more than a decade I gotta tell people that no, they haven't done anything to improve the appearance of switches, all we have is a few clumsy tedious workarounds that still don't look half as good as the switches in the other two games. That one should have been a crash priority years ago - consider Trainz has 3D cabviews, working turntables, adjustable physics, coupler slack with sound effects, and FAR more intelligent and versatile AI traffic trains than MSTS, not to mention a more stable editor and the front coupler works the same as the back coupler. With all that why didn't the MSTS crowd abandon ship and buy Trainz? Everything in Trainz is as good as or better than MSTS now - except those blasted switches.
IIRC the first release of Trainz was something like December 2001, if that's accurate we're coming up on the 11th anniversary. Like a lot of other MSTS users I tried the free playable demo sometime in early 2002, the track profile with the curved hump, the texture that looked like some kid laid matchsticks on a strip of paper, and the switches - ugh, those switches - turned me off, so I didn't buy it. Here we are 11 years later and the track profile is much better, the jointed rail tracks in TS12 are about as realistic as Marc Nelson's Scale Rail, yet the switches are still the same.
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?311379-Points
After more than a decade I gotta tell people that no, they haven't done anything to improve the appearance of switches, all we have is a few clumsy tedious workarounds that still don't look half as good as the switches in the other two games. That one should have been a crash priority years ago - consider Trainz has 3D cabviews, working turntables, adjustable physics, coupler slack with sound effects, and FAR more intelligent and versatile AI traffic trains than MSTS, not to mention a more stable editor and the front coupler works the same as the back coupler. With all that why didn't the MSTS crowd abandon ship and buy Trainz? Everything in Trainz is as good as or better than MSTS now - except those blasted switches.
Hi everybody.
Having used computers for a great many years now I have come to the conclusion that there is not a piece of software on the market that does not contain glitches, crashes and/or clunky operating procedures that can often make them a nightmare to use.
As a frequent user of Excel in Microsoft’s office suite i very often find myself close to pulling out what little hair I have left when trying to work through their formula or other options screaming “why can this be simplified” after all office costs an arm and a leg so you would think they could make it better after all these years.
However, it’s just one of those things we have to put up with in life and learn to live with. When it comes to trainz it is best to remember that is just a game and at most a hobby, therefore is it really worth any frustration at all. It may be that N3V have not got the resources to upgrade the simulator to the supposed standards of others, but it can still give many hours of enjoyment to its users for a very reasonable price. Unfortunately I do not get much time these days to indulge my love trainz or even post on the forum due to the pressures of work. At best I can look in on the forum to keep up with what is going on and at times enjoy watching members flaming one another for quite trivial reasons.
To put that in perspective, as part of my work today I have been up to Darlington to interview a person who has lost both his legs in a workplace accident. The investigation will without doubt conclude that the accident was caused through his own mistakes in not following standard operating procedures for the HGV vehicle he was operating. He has admitted that he started to rush the shunting operation he was carrying out when asked to do some extra work that would have taken him no more than 10 to 15 minutes to complete. That decision will affect the rest of it his life and the lives of his wife and two young child children for the rest of theirs
Trainz is a great simulator, this forum is a great community, but I often feel ( as somewhat of an outsider these days) that some of its members escalate trivialities beyond all proportion of what they really are and in the process slag off other members for next to no reason at all. Let everybody enjoy trainz but keep its deficiencies if that is what they are in proportion. After all it’s a game, at best a hobby and not worth getting upset about.
The person who I interviewed today really has got a genuine reason to be upset. Trainz is not.
Bill
From a very delayed virgin rail service north of Birmingham.
Having used computers for a great many years now I have come to the conclusion that there is not a piece of software on the market that does not contain glitches, crashes and/or clunky operating procedures that can often make them a nightmare to use.
As a frequent user of Excel in Microsoft’s office suite i very often find myself close to pulling out what little hair I have left when trying to work through their formula or other options screaming “why can this be simplified” after all office costs an arm and a leg so you would think they could make it better after all these years.
However, it’s just one of those things we have to put up with in life and learn to live with. When it comes to trainz it is best to remember that is just a game and at most a hobby, therefore is it really worth any frustration at all. It may be that N3V have not got the resources to upgrade the simulator to the supposed standards of others, but it can still give many hours of enjoyment to its users for a very reasonable price. Unfortunately I do not get much time these days to indulge my love trainz or even post on the forum due to the pressures of work. At best I can look in on the forum to keep up with what is going on and at times enjoy watching members flaming one another for quite trivial reasons.
To put that in perspective, as part of my work today I have been up to Darlington to interview a person who has lost both his legs in a workplace accident. The investigation will without doubt conclude that the accident was caused through his own mistakes in not following standard operating procedures for the HGV vehicle he was operating. He has admitted that he started to rush the shunting operation he was carrying out when asked to do some extra work that would have taken him no more than 10 to 15 minutes to complete. That decision will affect the rest of it his life and the lives of his wife and two young child children for the rest of theirs
Trainz is a great simulator, this forum is a great community, but I often feel ( as somewhat of an outsider these days) that some of its members escalate trivialities beyond all proportion of what they really are and in the process slag off other members for next to no reason at all. Let everybody enjoy trainz but keep its deficiencies if that is what they are in proportion. After all it’s a game, at best a hobby and not worth getting upset about.
The person who I interviewed today really has got a genuine reason to be upset. Trainz is not.
Bill
From a very delayed virgin rail service north of Birmingham.
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