Railworks 3 to be released in september
- Thread starter raildumper
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ex-railwayman
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Yes, the game needs to be activated whether you only do it once, or, 20 times and the question was asked month's ago on the UKTS forum as to the future of RS.com using Steam, and the answer was that they are not going to change anything for the forseeable future, RS.com are very happy with the working relationship they have with Valve, a great pity that quite a few of their bloody customers AREN"T, but, they have all the kids to cater for now, they aren't too fussed over a few veteran customers/creators quitting.
Cheerz. ex.
Cheerz. ex.
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IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
I'm calm, I'm calm, Mike, don't worry, thanks anyway...
I ran my game de-Steamed for quite a few months, and it was fine, as Sniper Jim stated, it's a pain in the butt, as you get the daily log in reminders, which I completely ignored, however, the main problem is, that you need to have an account with Steam opened in the first place, there is no 'getting around' that scenario at all, without having an account with them, you can't install the game initially, even if you ignore them for the rest of the time you have the game running on your computer. Another factor was that the updates from RS.com had to be installed automatically, a process I wasn't personally happy with, especially as it buggered my computer up, as well as a few others, so, even if you ignored the periodical updates, any future creations that were built using the new updated version you couldn't use, so, it then became a useless game, you were stuck with having the very first, or, second versions and were not then able to operate anything brand new, freeware, or, Payware.
I also read on a gamer's forum, that an account holder with Steam took 3-4 months to sort out a problem with them, due to someone hacking into his account. I think they have about 4 million subscribers, maybe more, I don't know, but, I doubt they give a rat's ass about individuals, irrespective, of whether an account problem is your fault, or, maybe it isn't, but, to have them pull the plug on your account for any reason whatsoever, whilst they have a problem with YOU, is just a complete waste of time and as they are in the western USA, the time zone factor in responding to e-mails and whatever, sounds a horrendous time consuming effort that would be required rather than playing any games in your spare time. So, even if you aren't wired up to them on a daily basis, you cannot log-in to install the automatic updates for Railworks, or, make any fresh purchases, what a waste of a hobby......
Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
Hi Steve,
Your not running your game "de-Steamed", if you are only running it in offline mode. That is not what it means, it is actually detaching RW2 from Steam completely. The whole point of a de-Steamed copy of RW2 is that you have complete control over what you want installed. No auto updates wiping out your third party sound sets etc.
cheers,
Mike.
Hi Mike, Steve And Everybody.
There is only one reason for the existence of steam, valve or call it what you like. It comes down to one word, piracy. it is the reason that with a ever increasing number of games you have to be online to use them as they were meant to be used.
The problem is that many of us " veterans" play things by the rules and pay for the software and games we need. However amongst the younger generation especially there seems to be an attitude that if you do not have to go into a store, theater, cinema or football terrace physically, then anywhere or anything else where you do not see a person on the till or gate to take the money then that should be free and therefore fair game for piracy or theft.
We see enough gimme pigs on this forum who demand that creators provide everything free of charge, to exactly their specifications and immediately they feel they need it. I have no doubt that these types of members would have very few morals when it comes to visiting sites that specialize in distributing pirated software and obtaining their base games that way
We have all seen the music industry ruined by piracy and frankly you cannot blame the games software industry for trying to protect itself from the same. It is people's livelihoods and jobs we are talking about here and that is why I support anything that stops stealing and promotes employment.
No one is going to develop software such as Trainz or Railworks if they see all their efforts and profit taken away by people who steal their products and make money from it with no effort being put in by themselves whatsoever. I view these people the same as drug dealers, it's illegal, harmful and to the detriment of everybody.
Yes having to have Railworks linked to the Internet to use it is a drag. However it has become a necessary inconvenience which hopefully will ensure we have future versions of Trainz, Railworks and other software that we need. I therefore have no complaints regarding steam and rail simulator's use of them.
Bill
There is only one reason for the existence of steam, valve or call it what you like. It comes down to one word, piracy. it is the reason that with a ever increasing number of games you have to be online to use them as they were meant to be used.
The problem is that many of us " veterans" play things by the rules and pay for the software and games we need. However amongst the younger generation especially there seems to be an attitude that if you do not have to go into a store, theater, cinema or football terrace physically, then anywhere or anything else where you do not see a person on the till or gate to take the money then that should be free and therefore fair game for piracy or theft.
We see enough gimme pigs on this forum who demand that creators provide everything free of charge, to exactly their specifications and immediately they feel they need it. I have no doubt that these types of members would have very few morals when it comes to visiting sites that specialize in distributing pirated software and obtaining their base games that way
We have all seen the music industry ruined by piracy and frankly you cannot blame the games software industry for trying to protect itself from the same. It is people's livelihoods and jobs we are talking about here and that is why I support anything that stops stealing and promotes employment.
No one is going to develop software such as Trainz or Railworks if they see all their efforts and profit taken away by people who steal their products and make money from it with no effort being put in by themselves whatsoever. I view these people the same as drug dealers, it's illegal, harmful and to the detriment of everybody.
Yes having to have Railworks linked to the Internet to use it is a drag. However it has become a necessary inconvenience which hopefully will ensure we have future versions of Trainz, Railworks and other software that we need. I therefore have no complaints regarding steam and rail simulator's use of them.
Bill
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Bill, as any true muso knows, the music industry has been ruined by **** music - plastic 'bands', Vastco record labels, the 'right to instant fame' school of thought a la Arse Factor (I hope that's not deemed a serious profanity? Apologies if so). Fortunately, real music carries on as it always has.
Anyway, I'm trying to remember what this thread is all about as I can't be bothered going back to the start again. Wasn't it something to do with raindrops or was there more to it than that? Perhaps it was the other RW3 thread running more or less simultaneously with this one. If it was the former, I recall having some flight sim I got in the bargain bucket at least 10 years ago, that had beautiful raindrop effects on the cockpit which reacted to wind speed. Looked really nice but the sim itself wasn't great. Wish I could remember what it was.
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IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
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"And, don't you have to install it - or, at least, activate it - if you install onto a new computer or installation of Windows? If so, de-Steaming is pointless."
I'm not sure what Mike is talking about, unless it's a crack of some kind, but I recently redownloaded Half Life 2 and am playing it again. My son saw it and wanted it too, rather than downloading onto his computer I just copied the STEAM folder to his on the LAN and created a shortcut on his desktop - works fine.
Again, advantage STEAM, I bought Half Life 2 in 2004, lost the disks who knows where, never kept a backup copy. Despite living in a different state with a different ISP and different email, different computer different operating system, my STEAM user name and password is the only thing they need for me to prove I am me so I can download whatever I bought from them in the distant past. I never even had to send an email.
Disadvantage, in addition to the nagging "are you sure you don't want to go online?" message, even running in offline mode it's constantly trying to connect every time I exit the game. And unless I exit STEAM after exiting the game it keeps popping up a message that it needs to update the STEAM client - which is never a program patch, it's always just so they can display the latest advertising in the launcher screen. The only reason it's not classified as adware is because it CAN be turned off by exiting the program if it interferes with something.
"We have all seen the music industry ruined by piracy and frankly you cannot blame the games software industry for trying to protect itself from the same."
Again, you don't use a bomb to put out a fire in your living room - it will get the job done but there are better ways to do it without all the collateral damage. In 20 years DRM has never done what it's supposed to do, regardless of how clever they get and how much of a pain it is for paying customers, the pirates always have it cracked within a week.
I'm not sure what Mike is talking about, unless it's a crack of some kind, but I recently redownloaded Half Life 2 and am playing it again. My son saw it and wanted it too, rather than downloading onto his computer I just copied the STEAM folder to his on the LAN and created a shortcut on his desktop - works fine.
Again, advantage STEAM, I bought Half Life 2 in 2004, lost the disks who knows where, never kept a backup copy. Despite living in a different state with a different ISP and different email, different computer different operating system, my STEAM user name and password is the only thing they need for me to prove I am me so I can download whatever I bought from them in the distant past. I never even had to send an email.
Disadvantage, in addition to the nagging "are you sure you don't want to go online?" message, even running in offline mode it's constantly trying to connect every time I exit the game. And unless I exit STEAM after exiting the game it keeps popping up a message that it needs to update the STEAM client - which is never a program patch, it's always just so they can display the latest advertising in the launcher screen. The only reason it's not classified as adware is because it CAN be turned off by exiting the program if it interferes with something.
"We have all seen the music industry ruined by piracy and frankly you cannot blame the games software industry for trying to protect itself from the same."
Again, you don't use a bomb to put out a fire in your living room - it will get the job done but there are better ways to do it without all the collateral damage. In 20 years DRM has never done what it's supposed to do, regardless of how clever they get and how much of a pain it is for paying customers, the pirates always have it cracked within a week.
It's called experience. I mean, if you want to throw your money away, it's your choice, but some of us actually see what other companies like Microsoft, Walmart and Yahoo have done with their copy protection and have learned not to trust them. Not to mention, some of us don't want companies accessing our systems and remotely monitoring and deleting or changing stuff like Amazon.com has done.
As for the "system in place should anything happen", you mean the empty promises many manufacturers make to continue supporting a product? Or that they'll provide an unlocker to allow you to use your game if they go BK? How do you expect a broke company to distribute that? How do you think their creditors and the bankruptcy courts would feel about them giving away an asset that could be monetized to at least partially reimburse their creditors?
Hi Everybody.
Seeing as many on the forum seem to judge that companies that oblige users to have software connected to the Internet for use is always a complete failure, well Nuance with their Dragon NaturallySpeaking software have just given all users of their version 11 a free upgrade which contains quite a number of improvements. However, guess what, you now have to be connected to the Internet to use the software.
Nuance are a company that I have great respect for having used Dragon Naturally Speaking since version 6 and also have other software design by them installed on my PC. I do not believe that such a well-known large and respected company within the business community would go to the trouble of having users connected to the Internet if experience in other companies had proved to be ineffective.
I also do not understand why so many forum members seem to rejoice when the software pirates overcome the efforts put in by the legitimate owners and designers of software to improve security. Shorly if privacy can be eliminated or even substantially reduced then that would be a good thing for the future of the software industry and particularly Railworks and Trainz as our hobby.
Finally as a last word by me in this thread and perhaps within the Trainz community, and also without wishing to be in the least political, the one thing we have learned in Britain over the last four days is that whenever people (even a minority) lose respect for other people's property everybody loses everything they treasure the most.
Bill
Seeing as many on the forum seem to judge that companies that oblige users to have software connected to the Internet for use is always a complete failure, well Nuance with their Dragon NaturallySpeaking software have just given all users of their version 11 a free upgrade which contains quite a number of improvements. However, guess what, you now have to be connected to the Internet to use the software.
Nuance are a company that I have great respect for having used Dragon Naturally Speaking since version 6 and also have other software design by them installed on my PC. I do not believe that such a well-known large and respected company within the business community would go to the trouble of having users connected to the Internet if experience in other companies had proved to be ineffective.
I also do not understand why so many forum members seem to rejoice when the software pirates overcome the efforts put in by the legitimate owners and designers of software to improve security. Shorly if privacy can be eliminated or even substantially reduced then that would be a good thing for the future of the software industry and particularly Railworks and Trainz as our hobby.
Finally as a last word by me in this thread and perhaps within the Trainz community, and also without wishing to be in the least political, the one thing we have learned in Britain over the last four days is that whenever people (even a minority) lose respect for other people's property everybody loses everything they treasure the most.
Bill
Bill,
Most DRM does little but frustrate the legitimate users who are honest enough NOT to pirate software to begin with. What it does is give some idiot, who probably doesn't use the program, a puzzle to figure out and amuse himself.
We get aggravation, the pirate gets something to amuse himself with for a few days. The burden of DRM will always fall on the legitimate user. Most programs are hacked within days like IKB said. If piracy was so rampant, how is it these software companies are still in business and making money? It's the small percentage of losses they are after.
No amount of DRM will stop the pirates. The majority will still buy legal copies of that software. I refuse to buy into RailWorks because of Steam. There are pirate versions out there and guess what, I still don't have a copy of RailWorks installed. I don't advocate piracy but, I will not put up with DRM headaches because I'm honest either.
Dave........
Most DRM does little but frustrate the legitimate users who are honest enough NOT to pirate software to begin with. What it does is give some idiot, who probably doesn't use the program, a puzzle to figure out and amuse himself.
We get aggravation, the pirate gets something to amuse himself with for a few days. The burden of DRM will always fall on the legitimate user. Most programs are hacked within days like IKB said. If piracy was so rampant, how is it these software companies are still in business and making money? It's the small percentage of losses they are after.
No amount of DRM will stop the pirates. The majority will still buy legal copies of that software. I refuse to buy into RailWorks because of Steam. There are pirate versions out there and guess what, I still don't have a copy of RailWorks installed. I don't advocate piracy but, I will not put up with DRM headaches because I'm honest either.
Dave........
How would that be a good thing? Yes, DRM is well on its way to eliminating this too, but how is a computer in which a company can remotely access and disable things "more secure?" In the case of Amazon, they should have gotten their licensing straight before remotely deleting books off of people's Kindles. BTW, do you think for a second this is all their software is capable of doing?
Hi rssignal And Everybody.
Apologies rsignal as the above quote from my earlier posting shows there was an error in my statement. The word privacy should have been the word piracy and the misprint completely changed what I meant to say in that particular paragraph.
I believe it is the latest update to my Dragon Naturally Speaking software which is still trying to cope with my very Broad West of England/Somerset accent which caused the mistake.
The earlier versions very quickly came to grips with what is considered a very friendly accsent and doubtless (hopefully) this version will as well.
Again my apologies to you rsignal and the forum if it caused you to post unnecessarily.
Bill
Apologies rsignal as the above quote from my earlier posting shows there was an error in my statement. The word privacy should have been the word piracy and the misprint completely changed what I meant to say in that particular paragraph.
I believe it is the latest update to my Dragon Naturally Speaking software which is still trying to cope with my very Broad West of England/Somerset accent which caused the mistake.
The earlier versions very quickly came to grips with what is considered a very friendly accsent and doubtless (hopefully) this version will as well.
Again my apologies to you rsignal and the forum if it caused you to post unnecessarily.
Bill
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
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Accepted but I would say it's a given that your first statement, if not a freudian slip, certainly had a lot of truth in it from the point of view of the software industry.
Hi Everybody.
RRSignal whether the software industry has adopted the right policy or not with regard to countering piracy of its products is a separate debate as to whether it is right for any person to carry out theft of those products in any way.
Speaking for myself I am one who wishes to see a healthy software industry which is able to offer stable long-term employment to those who work in it together with a continuing stream of new and imaginative products for its customers use.
Piracy on an industrial scale threatens the above and therefore the industry has adopted the policy of having software linked to the Internet for use. I do not believe you should blame the software industry for that, the blame should be placed at the feet of those who carry out the piracy to the detriment of us all.
Without wishing to get political in any way, what we have witnessed in Britain in the last few days is theft on a grand scale which has affected the lives of everyone living here, not least of all me who as a passionate football supporter lost tonight's international match and is threatening my enjoyment of the weekend matches.
Theft in the software industry spoils the enjoyment of people like yourself who do not wish to have their computers linked to the Internet to run their software. However, the cancellation of the football and the linking of software to the Internet has become necessary evils because of the scum in our society who have no respect for other people's property.
We do live in a democracy and if people do not agree with the profits made by such companies as Railworks and NV3/Auran then there are ways to bring forward argument.
As stated, whether there are better ways to combat piracy other than Internet linkage of software is a valid argument. Stealing that software is not and leads to a reduction in freedoms for us all.
Bill
NB:- I am glad we are in this argument RRSignal as it's is rapidly improving the accuracy of my updated Dragon NaturallySpeaking software, great (got to do it that way smiles on forum not working tonight)
RRSignal whether the software industry has adopted the right policy or not with regard to countering piracy of its products is a separate debate as to whether it is right for any person to carry out theft of those products in any way.
Speaking for myself I am one who wishes to see a healthy software industry which is able to offer stable long-term employment to those who work in it together with a continuing stream of new and imaginative products for its customers use.
Piracy on an industrial scale threatens the above and therefore the industry has adopted the policy of having software linked to the Internet for use. I do not believe you should blame the software industry for that, the blame should be placed at the feet of those who carry out the piracy to the detriment of us all.
Without wishing to get political in any way, what we have witnessed in Britain in the last few days is theft on a grand scale which has affected the lives of everyone living here, not least of all me who as a passionate football supporter lost tonight's international match and is threatening my enjoyment of the weekend matches.
Theft in the software industry spoils the enjoyment of people like yourself who do not wish to have their computers linked to the Internet to run their software. However, the cancellation of the football and the linking of software to the Internet has become necessary evils because of the scum in our society who have no respect for other people's property.
We do live in a democracy and if people do not agree with the profits made by such companies as Railworks and NV3/Auran then there are ways to bring forward argument.
As stated, whether there are better ways to combat piracy other than Internet linkage of software is a valid argument. Stealing that software is not and leads to a reduction in freedoms for us all.
Bill
NB:- I am glad we are in this argument RRSignal as it's is rapidly improving the accuracy of my updated Dragon NaturallySpeaking software, great (got to do it that way smiles on forum not working tonight)
Um, no. No offense intended, and I say this with true respect, but you're kidding yourself if you think even for a second that DRM and internet tethering wouldn't exist without piracy. Although this applies somewhat more to music and video, there are lessons gamers can learn as well. While tthat's obviously the main purpose, to prevent "casual" piracy, it's done nothing to combat the "industrial" piracy you speak of. One need only look at the movie industry: You'll find plenty of full-quality DVDs and Blu-Ray - often while the original is still in the theaters on <censored to comply with CoC>NET.
As much as anything else, DRM, combined with other factors, is designed to prevent interoperability as well as to restrict users from using the content they paid for and, at least in the case of Microsoft, to prevent hardware manufacturers from using other encoding formats (although I believe that was challenged in court successfully.) Look at PlaysforSure or FairPlay. While one could argue whether this was really a side-effect or was intended, you probably don't need to know very many people who have re-purchased, say, the same song several times. In effect, that's what the people Microsoft, Yahoo, etc. had to do when those services pulled the rug out from under them.
In the case of video games, this can - and Steam seems to be proof of this - create a kind of forced loyalty. While Steam might have some excellent conveniences and some genuine perks, the reality is, if you want to be able to use the software you paid for, you're stuck dealing with Steam until they decide to shut off your software or until you decide protecting your investment isn't worth the trouble anymore.
And let's segue into one other point. What about the customer's right to protect their investment and be able to use the software they paid for? Why should we be at the mercy of activation servers that may more may not be there in a couple of years?
Also, what about people buying something once and using what they paid for. The problem for the software industry operating in the consumer space traditionally has been, once a person buys the product, they own it forever. That's how it was with video games, office products, development tools, and so on. I still have Office 2000 on one computer and basically think Office achieved the closest it can get to perfection with Office 2002/2003, so I have no desire to upgrade let alone feel the need to spend the money. But, more and more control is being taken from the consumer and passed into the hands of publishers who would rather receive ongoing subscription payments rather than a one-time fee, since the subscriptions will eventually exceed the one-time purchase cost as well as provide a continuous stream of cash. That's great for the software industry, but, in many if not all cases, worse for the consumer over the course of time. You will take the changes, you will continue to pay the money, and, if the trend continues, if you don't like it, tough.
Look no further than Adobe's subscription services: A one year Photoshop CS5 (non-Extended) subscription, at $35 a month, will cost the consumer more over just 21 months than a one-time purchase at $699.
So, yeah, here's the real reason behind DRM: To extract more and more cash out of the consumer.
As much as anything else, DRM, combined with other factors, is designed to prevent interoperability as well as to restrict users from using the content they paid for and, at least in the case of Microsoft, to prevent hardware manufacturers from using other encoding formats (although I believe that was challenged in court successfully.) Look at PlaysforSure or FairPlay. While one could argue whether this was really a side-effect or was intended, you probably don't need to know very many people who have re-purchased, say, the same song several times. In effect, that's what the people Microsoft, Yahoo, etc. had to do when those services pulled the rug out from under them.
In the case of video games, this can - and Steam seems to be proof of this - create a kind of forced loyalty. While Steam might have some excellent conveniences and some genuine perks, the reality is, if you want to be able to use the software you paid for, you're stuck dealing with Steam until they decide to shut off your software or until you decide protecting your investment isn't worth the trouble anymore.
And let's segue into one other point. What about the customer's right to protect their investment and be able to use the software they paid for? Why should we be at the mercy of activation servers that may more may not be there in a couple of years?
Also, what about people buying something once and using what they paid for. The problem for the software industry operating in the consumer space traditionally has been, once a person buys the product, they own it forever. That's how it was with video games, office products, development tools, and so on. I still have Office 2000 on one computer and basically think Office achieved the closest it can get to perfection with Office 2002/2003, so I have no desire to upgrade let alone feel the need to spend the money. But, more and more control is being taken from the consumer and passed into the hands of publishers who would rather receive ongoing subscription payments rather than a one-time fee, since the subscriptions will eventually exceed the one-time purchase cost as well as provide a continuous stream of cash. That's great for the software industry, but, in many if not all cases, worse for the consumer over the course of time. You will take the changes, you will continue to pay the money, and, if the trend continues, if you don't like it, tough.
Look no further than Adobe's subscription services: A one year Photoshop CS5 (non-Extended) subscription, at $35 a month, will cost the consumer more over just 21 months than a one-time purchase at $699.
So, yeah, here's the real reason behind DRM: To extract more and more cash out of the consumer.
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This is the way of the future not just with consumer goods, but also in the corporate world where they call it SAAS, or Software As A Service. Essentially a company buys licenses for the number of users to use the software, or rents them for a period of time like a subscription. The company has no physical media on-site, and everything is owned by the outside company. The software is downloaded and executed up in the "cloud" or on the desktop via a licensed executable.
This all sounds fine and dandy until the power goes out, the datacenter blows up, or the hosting company goes out of business as you've pointed out. What do you do then?
A good hint of the vulnerable side of cloud computing happened pretty recently with Amazon.com and Microsoft datacenters in Dublin.
http://redmondmag.com/articles/2011/08/08/amazon-and-microsoft-clouds-hit-by-lightning.aspx
John
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