R.I.P Old Dell Dimension 9100

[crazytrain]

So, after 2 months of acting up, the old Dell Dimension 9100 (2005) is finally beyond my capacity to troubleshoot. Not really cost effective to throw money at, so now the search for something to replace it begins.....

The problem is, that I haven't got the faintest clue as to what I should be looking for spec wise. Done some window shopping online, but, what do I really want?
1. The ability to at least play TANE, if not higher.
2. Something that will enable me to slay it in Blender without frying stuff.
3 The compatibility to run some of the older games I absolutely can't live without, such as FIA GTR2, IL2 1946, and so on.

Any suggestions?

 

[boleyd]

Good specs. Reputable dealer, and DO NO buy a "kiddies" LED loaded crappy case. Demand a case such as Cooler Master in your pre-built. My pre-built works well but the case is a Liability. Stay away from the light show. Research cases/cabinets online. ALL steel with fans on front back and side. It is a computer not a toy. PC Magazine is a source of info, https://www.pcmag.com/ And, get a temperature monitor. See forums here for references and why...

 

[johnwhelan]

Dellrefurbished.com has tower workstations with Xeon W processors that should upgrade to win 11 sometime. Stick a reasonable video card in side and it's probably not a bad system for the money. Certainly well built. The more expensive ones usually have lots of disks inside.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php should help decide which graphics card. Look at what you've been using, in fact it might even work in the new system, then get something a bit faster. Look for 10,000 3D score minimum, an RTX 4060 is around $300.

Cheerio John

 

[wmm1216]

I would also like to recommend you use a couple of the new & FAST NVME type ssd drives. You may need an adapter card to fit a slot if covered by the graphics card.

NVME drives are much much much faster than SATA drives and are now as cheap as or less than SATA drives. I just bought a 500GB Nvme drive for about $20USD for my old Dell Optiplex 7010. And put the same drive in my laptop providing lightning fast performance.

Many YouTube videos available to guide you if required.

Cheers
Wmm1216

 

[wreeder]

This would be my minimum spec for a system to run TANE and higher but still be backwardly compatible for your must have games.

Specifications:​

• CPU: Intel Core i7 (4-Core/8-Thread @ 3.8GHz Turbo)
• Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 1660 Super 6GB
• RAM: 16GB
• Storage: 512GB NVMe SSD
• Multiple USB3.0 Ports
• WiFi/Bluetooth Capability

That is a system that runs around $500 USD these days online. Of course, you can upgrade to a better CPU as that one is circa 2014. I would add a second NVMe drive for program storage since they are cheap. Maybe a 2TB one. If you like AMD cards, my base would be the RX6600.

 

[crazytrain]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.

Wreeder: I'm seeing some refurbished Dell gaming pc's on Amazon with specs very similar to that. They seem to have the LED lighted cases that Boyeld warns about, but I don't mind. PBR/FBX isn't really my thing, which is why I'm leaning to TANE. I also understand it still has backwards compatibility with some of the older .im based assets if I'm not mistaken.

My only fear is that these refurbished pc's have all kinds of bells and whistles installed with an under rated psu. Reviews mention this as well.

Whatever I decide on will be a quantum leap from the old Dell. Heck, the ATI Radeon X300 in it only had 64mb (64mb shadow) of onboard ram. Probably why both it and the CPU sizzled. The prospects of a video card with 6gb of onboard vram? Mind completely blown!

 

[wreeder]

I understand the hesitancy to buy refurbished. If you have the money to go around $700 to $900. There are some nice new systems with a mostly modern 10th Gen and up Intel CPUs or a Ryzen 5 5800 CPU and better graphics cards. You should be able to find a system with an Nvidia RTX 3000 series card or an AMD rx6600 for that price. Either can run TANE with high settings. RBG lighting is hard to avoid these days. Good luck finding an inexpensive PC without it.

 

[johnwhelan]

Looking at the amazon site, I'd steer clear of the Dell G5 machines there although Dell are usually good on cooling. A GTX 1660 is a bit low end.

You want something you can upgrade to win 11 so 8 th gen or later Intel CPU.

If you can live with an i7 which is quite good CPU then look at refurbished Tower workstations from Dell. $329 for the cheapest one, you get a very nice case and a reasonable power supply. They come with an nVidia quadro video card which is low end for Trainz but will run it. If you look at the individual detail today there is one with a K620 for $349 which has a 3D score of 2,000 which is just about enough to run Trainz, Look up the video cards on the 3D benchmark.

The Dell refurbished direct from Dell are checked over to see if they work correctly and come with a 90 day warranty.

Your old machine has a 3D score of around 300 for comparison.

Cheerio John

 

[JCitron]

As John says, the G5s are crap. They are not really gaming machines by any means, well maybe if you play those canned kiddy games.

Dell does have newer machines that are halfway decent. Their new 8960 solves the heat issue that previous models couldn't. That being said, the biggest thing you need to keep in mind is heat no matter where you purchase your machine from. The new processors and video cards regardless of whether it's AMD or Intel, or NVidia, run really, really hot. There's been an ongoing discussion about this in a couple of threads on the forums here.

The problem we run into with hardware these days is the high cost. The video card manufacturers are deliberately holding back inventory from dealers to keep the prices up while other components have settled down. This makes building a decent system difficult since the biggest investments are the video card and CPU. The advantage of a prebuilt is these components are included in the price as well as the warranty.

You got some great life out of that machine with a great return on your investment. The old Dimension 9100 was a great machine in its day. Unfortunately, nothing today is built as well including one you build yourself.

 

[ricomon35]

This would be my minimum spec for a system to run TANE and higher but still be backwardly compatible for your must have games.

Specifications:​

• CPU: Intel Core i7 (4-Core/8-Thread @ 3.8GHz Turbo)
• Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 1660 Super 6GB
• RAM: 16GB
• Storage: 512GB NVMe SSD
• Multiple USB3.0 Ports
• WiFi/Bluetooth Capability

That is a system that runs around $500 USD these days online. Of course, you can upgrade to a better CPU as that one is circa 2014. I would add a second NVMe drive for program storage since they are cheap. Maybe a 2TB one. If you like AMD cards, my base would be the RX6600.

Nice specs, but for the money, he can install a RTX 3060 8g for the same or a little less.

I just bought this one for my desktop, 254 USD.
GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3060 Gaming OC 8G (rev. 2.0) Graphics Card, 2X WINDFORCE Fans, 8GB 128-bit GDDR6, GV-N3060GAMING OC-8GD REV2.0 Video Card


Rico

 

[ricomon35]

@crazytrain - Do you have a budget in mind?

I can run a few builds on PC Parts Picker, if you're interested in building your own setup.


Rico

 

[crazytrain]

Ricomon35: Money really isn't an issue right now. My two decades of stubbornness is!

A friend offered up a Dell Optiplex 320 for dirt cheap. It has specs similar to the Dimension with a Radeon x1300 (128m onboard) in it and Windows XP. Plus I get to reuse the SoundBlaster Audigy ZS card/sound system that was in the Dimension. I'm sure all that will cover #3 on my list.

As for the other two on the list, I ordered an STGAubron ABR0122 and will be here next week. If I hate it, surely the nieces and nephews will love it.

ware

 

[johnwhelan]

A Radeon X1300 has a score of 39 so don't expect to run Trainz. I suspect the maximum memory is something like 4 gigs which is just about the bare minimum for win 10 not that it is a supported operating system for that model. The power supply is 280 watts which limits any GPU upgrade. GT 1030 would work. A 75 watt TDP such as ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC might work.

Something we hadn't mentioned Trainz prefers nVidia GPUs. Not all features are available with an AMD GPU.

Cheerio John

 

[ColPrice2002]

My usual reminder! Trainz uses the cpu and gpu much harder than many other games/applications.
whatever you get, try to get a good cpu cooler (not stock) using quality thermal paste. Choose a case with Enhanced cooling.
make use of a gpu app like thundermaster to aggressively cool the gpu.
lastly, limit the gpu frame rate to just higher than your monitor refresh rate. There’s no point in the gpu rendering 120fps if your monitor can only display 75

 

[crazytrain]

I removed the link to that computer on Amazon because if it croaks out of the gate, it's going back and would hate for someone else to make the same mistake I did. The price dropped again and that concerns me.

@johnwhelan: I should have clarified myself more clearly. I plan on having two pc's now. I have a lot of old software that I really like that isn't supported by Windows (insert higher version than XP here). So, the Optiplex 320 will be for that. A newer pc will handle the Trainz Sizzler Edition stuff. Thanks for the nViida vs AMD heads up as well! The pc that is on the way has an AMD Radeon RX580 (8909 score). Hope that's enough if everything else works. If not, I can use the money I saved and throw a better one at it.

 

[ricomon35]

@crazytrain - If I can be a little critical of your purchase?

There are a few things about that build that will probably make you want to return the computer.

Any pre-built that seems a good deal price-wise, but hides the component specs like the motherboard, RAM brand/speed, WIFI card type/quality, CPU chipset series and case information etc.
is likely cutting alot of corners in component quality. If you read the comments for the unit you bought, you'll see a few people complaining about faulty or cheap components.

You did mention that price was not an issue, so, in that case, for a good Trainz capable setup, that will also allow you to run current gen game titles, with high quality ASUS, MSI or my preferred brand, Gigabyte components and really fast RAM - you're going to be spending around 1500-3k USD, depending on your Motherboard choice, CPU series, RAM quality/speed and the graphics card you put in. You're definitely going to spend quite a bit more than for a DIY build.

This is a modified parts list for a Gigabyte component build that I specced out in early September. My original build was a total of 5700 USD. This modified totals at 1903.94 USD.

Gigabyte October 2023 crazytrain build

I used good quality mid-high components, with the idea of build longevity, power, speed and excellent graphics processing, all of which Trainz needs to run well (high FPS, full ultra)

You can build it somewhat cheaper by using a non gaming motherboard, a little slower RAM, a smaller SSD drive set, and by buying a similar GPU, like the linked RTX 3060 above in post 10. The 3060 8GB like I bought isn't showing up in their current database for some reason.

There are also cheaper cases, and water cooling setups, or you could stay with a standard air cooled unit, but there's the disadvantage of having the CPU heat trapped inside the case for alot longer than if you had a water cooled setup which directly vents ALL of the in case heat out the top of the case, as well as any intake/output fans you install on the front and back faces of your case.

You can use the list as a starting point for shopping for a prebuilt, or if you have a friend who knows PC building, go ahead and build your own. Once you have all your parts, you can build the desktop up, install the OS and test in a couple hours. It's not a difficult thing to do, but does require some researching for proper steps, safety and things like applying thermal paste and correctly installing a CPU.


Rico

 

[RetroRails12]

A Radeon X1300 has a score of 39 so don't expect to run Trainz. I suspect the maximum memory is something like 4 gigs which is just about the bare minimum for win 10 not that it is a supported operating system for that model. The power supply is 280 watts which limits any GPU upgrade. GT 1030 would work. A 75 watt TDP such as ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC might work.

Something we hadn't mentioned Trainz prefers nVidia GPUs. Not all features are available with an AMD GPU.

Cheerio John

i beg to differ on that trainz prefers Nvidia GPU's. I run a MSI Mech 2 12GB Radeon 6600 XT GPU with no issues at all.. The more GPU Memory the better trainz will run...

 

[johnwhelan]

i beg to differ on that trainz prefers Nvidia GPU's. I run a MSI Mech 2 12GB Radeon 6600 XT GPU with no issues at all.. The more GPU Memory the better trainz will run...

tufx only works with nvidia and nVidia has a program to help game developers optimise their code for their cards which I understand N3V take advantage of.

Cheerio John

 

[johnwhelan]

@crazytrain - If I can be a little critical of your purchase?

There are a few things about that build that will probably make you want to return the computer.

Any pre-built that seems a good deal price-wise, but hides the component specs like the motherboard, RAM brand/speed, WIFI card type/quality, CPU chipset series and case information etc.
is likely cutting alot of corners in component quality. If you read the comments for the unit you bought, you'll see a few people complaining about faulty or cheap components.

You did mention that price was not an issue, so, in that case, for a good Trainz capable setup, that will also allow you to run current gen game titles, with high quality ASUS, MSI or my preferred brand, Gigabyte components and really fast RAM - you're going to be spending around 1500-3k USD, depending on your Motherboard choice, CPU series, RAM quality/speed and the graphics card you put in. You're definitely going to spend quite a bit more than for a DIY build.

This is a modified parts list for a Gigabyte component build that I specced out in early September. My original build was a total of 5700 USD. This modified totals at 1903.94 USD.

Gigabyte October 2023 crazytrain build

I used good quality mid-high components, with the idea of build longevity, power, speed and excellent graphics processing, all of which Trainz needs to run well (high FPS, full ultra)

You can build it somewhat cheaper by using a non gaming motherboard, a little slower RAM, a smaller SSD drive set, and by buying a similar GPU, like the linked RTX 3060 above in post 10. The 3060 8GB like I bought isn't showing up in their current database for some reason.

There are also cheaper cases, and water cooling setups, or you could stay with a standard air cooled unit, but there's the disadvantage of having the CPU heat trapped inside the case for alot longer than if you had a water cooled setup which directly vents ALL of the in case heat out the top of the case, as well as any intake/output fans you install on the front and back faces of your case.

You can use the list as a starting point for shopping for a prebuilt, or if you have a friend who knows PC building, go ahead and build your own. Once you have all your parts, you can build the desktop up, install the OS and test in a couple hours. It's not a difficult thing to do, but does require some researching for proper steps, safety and things like applying thermal paste and correctly installing a CPU.


Rico

I tottally agree with the quality comments which is why I like using a refurbished Dell workstation as a base.

Building your own is fine but getting the component layout right so it runs cool is a problem on many systems. The average system uses about 3% of the cpu which means cooling isn't an issue. Running Trainz runs both the CPU and GPU harder which means more heat in the case so you need things like heat sinks on the memory to keep it running reliably.


Cheerio John

 

[JCitron]

The issue to consider with build-you-own systems is warranties on components. If something goes wrong, you end up chasing individual companies instead of calling one for repairs. I don't bother with extended warranties on desktops but I do carry one on laptops due to their possibility of damage and I keep that only for a few years. I used to support a sales force that had various laptop mishaps including one whose machine was doused in wine during an international flight. There was a bit of a bump while the stewardess was handing out drinks and snacks.