I am making a South Australian abandoned line and went onto Facebook as there is a group dedicated to the line , hoping to get some information, its proved invaluable, but unfortunately the experience has been soured by a guy who uses MSTS and who is constantly telling me that his software is superior in every way to trainz, it may very well be , but its a pain to constantly have him carping on about it ,and I cant see why hes doing it as I'm not going to change over to what he wants me to use, I'm not going to defend trainz to the hilt as it does have many annoying features, but from what I understand its surveyor tools are better than most of the other sims. Anyone else have similar experiences of sim users who just cant stop bashing the opposition ?
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Quibbling about Sims
- Thread starter dangavel
- Start date
Not just train sims but in every aspect of life - cars, football, food preferences (Vegans can be really annoying). I find that the worst offenders are in religion and politics. We have friends who are deeply religious and have very conservative political views - the two often go hand-in-hand. Since their views are the exact opposite of ours we have mutually agreed to never talk religion and politics when together that way we have maintained the friendship. Unfortunately, not many zealots are so accommodating.
For some people a hobby is not just a hobby, it is their life.
PS: If you are a member of the Australian Railway Historical Society then you have access to their entire resource library which has recently gone online. I am currently working on a number of narrow gauge lines in the SAR Peterborough Division and it has been a valuable source of information, specifically old photographs.
For some people a hobby is not just a hobby, it is their life.
PS: If you are a member of the Australian Railway Historical Society then you have access to their entire resource library which has recently gone online. I am currently working on a number of narrow gauge lines in the SAR Peterborough Division and it has been a valuable source of information, specifically old photographs.
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Not just train sims but in every aspect of life - cars, football, food preferences (Vegans can be really annoying). I find that the worst offenders are in religion and politics. We have friends who are deeply religious and have very conservative political views - the two often go hand-in-hand. Since their views are the exact opposite of ours we have mutually agreed to never talk religion and politics when together that way we have maintained the friendship. Unfortunately, not many zealots are so accommodating.
For some people a hobby is not just a hobby, it is their life.
PS: If you are a member of the Australian Railway Historical Society then you have access to their entire resource library which has recently gone online. I am currently working on a number of narrow gauge lines in the SAR Peterborough Division and it has been a valuable source of information, specifically old photographs.
It seems that way for this guy, to give him his due it looks like he has produced a highly accurate version of a 300km South Australian route in MSTS, but his partisanship is rather overwhelming .
Thanks for the tip, I have approached port dock museum for more detailed gradient and height maps ,the ones I have aren't that accurate enough regarding distances for my liking I'll see about joining ARHS asap.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Facebook has a block function.
Facebook has a block function.
in a group its fairly hard to do that I can dismiss his comments but I cant snooze him as hes not a friend , the sad thing is everyone else has given me invaluable help as the area has been built up , where there were fields there are now housing estates. so I'm asking whether there were embankments in one particular area, which has hardly any documentation , and people chimed in with memories galore, really helpful.
However this guy has got on his high horse and he says he could grade and lay 20 miles of track in an hour in MSTS, ( this is a very hilly and sharply curved route in parts and the DEM I have is , unfortunately ,very variable in its quality so I'm having to do extensive terrain mods ) I suggested to him if his sim is so wonderful he should make a version himself, save me all this trouble and I'll go off and do something else , havent heard back form him as yet.
I did watch some group gaming on MSTS online and I thought it looked ok, but its track flickered like crazy and it doesn't look any better than TANE graphics wise. I suppose we all have our favorite items, its a bit like cars , in Australia most males in the past either seemed to love Holden or Ford, I think its the same for train sims for some people
Having played MSTS' successor Open Rails, while there are some great looking and MASSIVE routes availed as well as half way decent rolling stock to run with, the editor is a 20+ year old counter intuitive pain in the ass to work with, there's no "place down some trains anywhere on the route and have fun" feature (you only have the paths that the route builder included with the route and God help you if you try and set up more paths), then there's the fact that both MSTS/OR are dead games in the west.
The only new content I've seen being uploaded has been Indian content while US and UK/Euro content is barely a blip on the radar.
The only new content I've seen being uploaded has been Indian content while US and UK/Euro content is barely a blip on the radar.
Dan
If I were used to using one sim and became extremely proficient in it's use I would not change to to another - I wouldn't have enough time left to enjoy it!
Ken
I'm not even thinking about it, for a start none of the other sims run on macs and although I have a windows laptop I'm not really that keen on the interface , although in this route I might go and add turf fx to a version for windows just to see how well it works.
I used MSTS initially but jumped to Trainz TRS2004 when I could. The MSTS editor was so unstable that it would crash constantly and doing anything in it was cumbersome. What I did like was the activity editor because the setup was a checklist with the station stops. When the stations were added, the route travel time was calculated between each station which I found very handy. The locked path is really annoying and that made the routes very boring because there's not much else that could be done.
I looked very briefly at Open Rails but jumped back to Trainz again because OR was more of the same as before except with bigger routes.
The graphics in MSTS are the same era as Trainz 1.0 thru TS2009 with flipboard and billboard trees. The trees, however, in MSTS look more like those found in the old Operation Flashpoint war simulator and are very repetitive with lots of generic buildings, and even custom ones look like they're plopped on the ground even in the better-built routes such as those from Mapleleaf Tracks who did some nice routes back in the day. The ground textures are one huge bit-mapped image plastered over the terrain. If you can zoom out in the editor, you'll notice this. I noticed that this is the same in Railworks as well! For some areas, this isn't such a bad idea, but once noticed, it becomes quite obvious. We're lucky with Trainz here because we can apply the suitable texture we want anywhere and aren't limited to the single bitmap.
Granted each sim has its own advantages, disadvantages and quirks, and like with many things we put our comfy socks and slippers on while we use the sim we prefer. The thing is there can always be something on the horizon that can be better. It's the way of life and nothing is forever both good and bad. With that said, while I enjoy using Trainz a lot and I've used it for nearly 2 decades, my eyes have always on the horizon for something better. When other products have come out, I have tried them but found Trainz still to be the best for me at least for now.
I agree Vegans are about the worst and I find them to also be the biggest Kvetches I've ever run into for a lot of other things besides food. No further comment on this...
I looked very briefly at Open Rails but jumped back to Trainz again because OR was more of the same as before except with bigger routes.
The graphics in MSTS are the same era as Trainz 1.0 thru TS2009 with flipboard and billboard trees. The trees, however, in MSTS look more like those found in the old Operation Flashpoint war simulator and are very repetitive with lots of generic buildings, and even custom ones look like they're plopped on the ground even in the better-built routes such as those from Mapleleaf Tracks who did some nice routes back in the day. The ground textures are one huge bit-mapped image plastered over the terrain. If you can zoom out in the editor, you'll notice this. I noticed that this is the same in Railworks as well! For some areas, this isn't such a bad idea, but once noticed, it becomes quite obvious. We're lucky with Trainz here because we can apply the suitable texture we want anywhere and aren't limited to the single bitmap.
Granted each sim has its own advantages, disadvantages and quirks, and like with many things we put our comfy socks and slippers on while we use the sim we prefer. The thing is there can always be something on the horizon that can be better. It's the way of life and nothing is forever both good and bad. With that said, while I enjoy using Trainz a lot and I've used it for nearly 2 decades, my eyes have always on the horizon for something better. When other products have come out, I have tried them but found Trainz still to be the best for me at least for now.
I agree Vegans are about the worst and I find them to also be the biggest Kvetches I've ever run into for a lot of other things besides food. No further comment on this...
Well that's your experience,thank you for labelling me as lonely and socially confused, but I can assure you that i use it to keep in touch with old friends I've not seen for decades as well as doing various research projects, such as this one , so my experience is quite different, it can be a cesspit but for a research project it can be invaluable . In fact you've just proved that insulting people and making spurious value judgements about them isn't the sole preserve of Facebook, it's alive and well here In this community , although in general we don't get too many instances of the practice, as our mods are a lot better than those on fb.Facebook is a place forthe unbridled masses with opinions that have no morality or logic components. I have an account and maybe, since its inception I have visited 7 times. You have to be very lonely or socially confused to even go near it.
Boleyd was, I believe, generalising (in the extreme) and I do not think he was attacking you personally. His view of Facebook is one that I generally share about social media platforms (again in general). While I haven't personally met them all, I am certain that the majority of users (yourself included) are normal and sane individuals.
Unfortunately the business models of the "social" platforms involves advertising, or gathering data on their users, or both which requires attracting the maximum number of members and postings. Like the Roman Circuses of old nothing attracts more than controversy and extremism so users that have "no morality or logic", no matter how few, become essential components of their business models. Unlike the Roman Circus, this strategy does not seem to have worked well because few if any of them have made anything like the expected profits, or any profit at all in some cases.
I am not a member of FB, Twitter, Instagram, Tic Tok, etc because I do not want to be the target of advertising or have my personal details and online habits harvested plus I do not want to be part of a business system that supports, even through inaction, extremist and dangerous views (and those are subjective terms, I know) that are masquerading as "free speech". Lets not get into an argument about the merits of yelling "fire" in a crowded room. Before anyone asks, my search engine of choice is Duck Duck Go, not Google.
If I was a Twitter regular, I would be very concerned about Elon Musk and his "free speech" mantra in his latest bid to take outright control of that platform (EDIT: I just heard that his bid has been successful). I suspect that he has other agendas behind his statements.
Here in Trainz we do get the occasional rant (is this one?) and some negativity but nowhere near the same levels as FB, et al.
My opinions.
Unfortunately the business models of the "social" platforms involves advertising, or gathering data on their users, or both which requires attracting the maximum number of members and postings. Like the Roman Circuses of old nothing attracts more than controversy and extremism so users that have "no morality or logic", no matter how few, become essential components of their business models. Unlike the Roman Circus, this strategy does not seem to have worked well because few if any of them have made anything like the expected profits, or any profit at all in some cases.
I am not a member of FB, Twitter, Instagram, Tic Tok, etc because I do not want to be the target of advertising or have my personal details and online habits harvested plus I do not want to be part of a business system that supports, even through inaction, extremist and dangerous views (and those are subjective terms, I know) that are masquerading as "free speech". Lets not get into an argument about the merits of yelling "fire" in a crowded room. Before anyone asks, my search engine of choice is Duck Duck Go, not Google.
If I was a Twitter regular, I would be very concerned about Elon Musk and his "free speech" mantra in his latest bid to take outright control of that platform (EDIT: I just heard that his bid has been successful). I suspect that he has other agendas behind his statements.
Here in Trainz we do get the occasional rant (is this one?) and some negativity but nowhere near the same levels as FB, et al.
My opinions.
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I am not a member of FB, Twitter, Instagram, Tic Tok, etc because I do not want to be the target of advertising or have my personal details and online habits harvested plus I do not want to be part of a business system that supports, even through inaction, extremist and dangerous views (and those are subjective terms, I know) that are masquerading as "free speech". ......my search engine of choice is Duck Duck Go, not Google.
.
Same here.
With the exception of using Google Earth for Trainz, I avoid Google and all social media platforms.
Duck Duck Go has been a great search engine and they've come a long way over the years.
They are good about protecting your privacy.
Their photo search, for my uses, has improved a lot and now even better than what Google has.
Facebook is a place forthe unbridled masses with opinions that have no morality or logic components. I have an account and maybe, since its inception I have visited 7 times. You have to be very lonely or socially confused to even go near it.
You don't have to play with the idiots on Facebook, lock down your preferences. I use it for various UK Narrow Gauge sites, several are members only, no trolls, old style forums seem to be dying out in favour of social media.
I only allow contacts that I actually know, all requests etc are blocked, no personal info given out such as location age email, phone etc notifications, suggested posts, friend requests blocked and I do not post anything on my own page and I see zero adverts. Lot of info on how to tame Facebook on Google.Thus other than to those groups I am signed up for and my few contacts, I'm effectively a ghost on Face book, I also use a Firefox add-on, Face book Container which "Facebook Container works by isolating your Facebook identity into a separate container that makes it harder for Facebook to track your visits to other websites with third-party cookies." It also stops those annoying login with facebook prompts for other sites.
The other junk such as Twitter and all the other social hysteria brain washing sites I avoid like the plague.
Actually most of my Contacts prefer email or the Telephone, remember them? I have plenty of people to talk to in the real world without resorting to Farcebook or Twitland or poking and blabbering into smart phones.
It amazes me how many people are fiddling with their Phones while walking down the road. I don't take a mobile with me when I go out, other than maybe If I'm driving any distance and then it's turned off.
Musk buying Twitter can't see anything good coming out of that, freedom of speech for Social Media sounds a lot like freedom to post fake news.
MSTS and it's "Community" add-ons that improve the graphics slightly lasted 2 weeks here. Open Rails, not much really improved in over a decade, based on what screenshots are around.
OpenBVE, getting better but graphics are old school.
Effectively, if a Sim is not intuitive to build routes I'm not interested.
You don't have to play with the idiots on Facebook, lock down your preferences. I use it for various UK Narrow Gauge sites, several are members only, no trolls, old style forums seem to be dying out in favour of social media.
MSTS and it's "Community" add-ons that improve the graphics slightly lasted 2 weeks here. Open Rails, not much really improved in over a decade, based on what screenshots are around.
OpenBVE, getting better but graphics are old school.
Effectively, if a Sim is not intuitive to build routes I'm not interested.
Yep, if you are selective, FB can be ok, I run a private music group, I've only had to warn one person in three years , everyone is reasonably well behaved as we share the same interest , there's even a group on the Uintah railway , including the author of the books on the subject, you can often interact with people who are in the creative arts community and exchange views , I use it for music and railroad research , its also quite good for selling stuff.
The feedback I've had on the FB rail group has been fantastic, lots of locals giving invaluable info on the old railway, a huge repository of photos, diagrams aerial views and more , its saved me many months or research, the enthusiasm level for the railway has been exceptional.
However , I didn't start this as a thread to discuss the merits of social media apps, i actually was more interested in peoples takes on sims in general but as usual, a thread gets hijacked and people start talking about anything other then what the thread really was about.
Back to subject.
I cant quite get round this guys take on MSTS , he keeps on harping on about how much better its graphics are , but its textures are 2 dimensional to the extreme and it appears its route creation tools are limited. I just wonder how much he actually knows about Trainz recent versions which look incrementally much better than they did a year or two ago , ( although it has had share of its tribulations, it is very good for route construction ) a lot of the people who use other sims often concentrate on the driving experience, which for me, is way down on the list of priorities as I hardly do any !
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Its interesting that most of the people who are blagging FB actually either don't use it, or have used it minimally. You would be surprised how useful it can actually be for research if you don't delve into its darker side. you guys remind me of my wife who is totally down on social media ...until she needs to use it for her purposes, then she finds a place for it . it can of course be a repository of hate, rubbish and vileness, but only if you actively decide to participate in such issues.
This reminds me of people who blag artists more on the basis of their reputation than their actual knowledge of their output, I'm a member of a jazz fusion group and a huge number of members diss rock musicians in general, even though many of the jazz fusion players they admire actually have a huge respect for the masters of the genre..... such as the guitarist John McLaughlin , a player of fusion and indian fusion, who greatly admires Jeff beck , who mostly plays heavy rock and blues .
Let just discuss the merits of sims, that's what this thread was supposed to be about, not the merits ( or lack of ) of SM .
This reminds me of people who blag artists more on the basis of their reputation than their actual knowledge of their output, I'm a member of a jazz fusion group and a huge number of members diss rock musicians in general, even though many of the jazz fusion players they admire actually have a huge respect for the masters of the genre..... such as the guitarist John McLaughlin , a player of fusion and indian fusion, who greatly admires Jeff beck , who mostly plays heavy rock and blues .
Let just discuss the merits of sims, that's what this thread was supposed to be about, not the merits ( or lack of ) of SM .
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