Question about trainz + and surveyor 2.0

[jjslll54]

I've been having an issue with surveyor 2.0 in that every time I make a change like moving track or adding ground textures things around my work area disappear for a few seconds and then are redrawn slowly. I have a Rysen 9 3900x, x570 mb with 64G system memory, a 2060 video card 6gb ram. Could this be a setting somewhere or maybe my video card acting up? I have shadows turned off, which helps. Has done this from the beginning in Trainz + in surveyor 2.0. Seems to have gotten worse with HD terrain. I'm planning on upgrading my video card in the next week or so in the hopes this issue will go away. Has anyone else experienced this and was able fix it? If so, what did you do? Thanks in advance.

Jack

 

[wreeder]

Honestly, my opinion is that behavior is more due to Trainz Plus not being totally optimized yet. I have a far lower powered GPU and when I first tried Trainz Plus 19 months ago, it ran well and was fairly responsive. I did drop the subscription after a year. I just renewed it for one month to see the progress I was reading about here. I see the same delays that you are seeing.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

The key here is "things disappear for a few seconds and then are redrawn slowly". This shouldn't be the case.

Obviously if you're editing terrain near a spline, then it needs to be redrawn taking into account the changes. But it should never be "slow" in doing so.

Therefore we need to know more - what is your overall fps while this is happening? What is your hardware and performance settings? Does it occur the same using a 5m board vs HD?

We also need to rule out whether this is a case of slow redraw of splines, or something else, so sending a video capture in to QA would help as well.

 

[JCitron]

My conclusion is that there are multiple causes for the same problem. When I've run into that issue, I found that sometimes it's a scenery object or objects that are doing it. I had one particular area on a busy route where the tracks would take forever to load up. I then poked around, after changing tracks, which can also cause the problem, everything pointed to a particular group of factory buildings. After I replaced these nice-looking buildings with something else, the area loaded up very quickly like the rest of the route.

The beta does have a bit of a performance issue at the moment which doesn't help matters either, but I would check the assets and see if that helps. There are other things to check too including graphics detail in the Trainz settings and also the VSYNC. I found that even with my RTX3080, I need to run at VSYNC at Half (30 fps) instead of Full or None.

Depending upon the tracks used, this can impact things. Some tracks are made better than others like other assets. The JR US #132 lb. track has some issues where it draw in slowly in chunks. Switching to trainboi01's pro-track made a big difference. This is the same with splines. I have one route that makes heavy use of the old dmdrake building splines. While these fill in the areas nicely, they render poorly and really drag down the performance. I've tried swapping out the splines for build-blocks instead and that helps a lot, so there's something heavy about these splines.

 

[Paul_Bert]

he JR US #132 lb. track has some issues where it draw in slowly in chunks. Switching to trainboi01's pro-track made a big difference. T

I could not find the pro-track by trainboi01 Pro-Track either on my installed base or on the DLS. Where can I find it?

 

[JCitron]

I could not find the pro-track by trainboi01 Pro-Track either on my installed base or on the DLS. Where can I find it?

Here's the track I've been using. It's available on the DLS.

<kuid:648132:102919> SG 136lb AREA Grey Ballast
<kuid:648132:102920> SG 136lb AREA Grey Ballast Rusty
<kuid:648132:102921> SG 136lb AREA Grey-Dirty
<kuid:648132:102923> SG 136lb AREA Grey-Dirty Rusty

Totally excellent and renders very well. He's got a gazillion weights and textures and gauges. I recommend them all.

 

[Paul_Bert]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Fierogt87]

I think this may be somewhat of what he's talking about.

HD Baseboard, All graphics settings at max except Anti-Aliasing is X2

Frame rate stays pretty steady at 34-40 fps, no change when clicked or not.

Track position is locked, so it will not move.

121941

This is pretty tough when you can't see what you're doing. have to keep the sensitivity down to not overdo it, time-consuming...

 

[JCitron]

I think this may be somewhat of what he's talking about.

HD Baseboard, All graphics settings at max except Anti-Aliasing is X2

Frame rate stays pretty steady at 34-40 fps, no change when clicked or not.

Track position is locked, so it will not move.

121941

This is pretty tough when you can't see what you're doing. have to keep the sensitivity down to not overdo it, time-consuming...

This is definitely an issue and was apparent before in earlier TRS22 and Plus versions with the standard 5m and 10m grid resolution but not as bad as this. This may be related to the performance issues mentioned but maybe not.

 

[jjslll54]

Thanks Fierogt87 that is exactly what I was talking about. Only my scenery takes forever to come back. I've ordered one of the new RTX 4060's that just came out in the hope this will fix the issue for me. The 2060 card I've been using was refurbished when I bought it and I even took it apart to redo the thermal paste and heat pads. No help. I'm hoping it was a card issue that will soon be fixed. Will let you know the results. Thanks again for all the responses. This is a great community to work with.

Jack

 

[Fierogt87]

Thanks Fierogt87 that is exactly what I was talking about. Only my scenery takes forever to come back. I've ordered one of the new RTX 4060's that just came out in the hope this will fix the issue for me. The 2060 card I've been using was refurbished when I bought it and I even took it apart to redo the thermal paste and heat pads. No help. I'm hoping it was a card issue that will soon be fixed. Will let you know the results. Thanks again for all the responses. This is a great community to work with.

Jack

I'm only using a 1650 Super, so if yours is even worse, I should wonder that the graphics card is the issue.

other:

I should clarify that I have no similar issues with painting textures. Only Spline objects do this, mesh objects do not disappear while changing intersecting terrain.

 

[Fierogt87]

I think part of the problem is the amount of splines on a route. This issue doesn't seem to be, well, an issue on smaller routes, but on a route with a lot of splines, it seems it can manifest itself as such. I have noticed that once you have a route with so many splines that there is a performance issue, removing splines does not restore performance. I have a route that started with over 8000 baseboards, using a spread of only 3 baseboards away from track. manually editing that route down to 900 baseboards, and then 300, including the removal of at least 4 LARGE rail yards, has seen a ZERO reduction of reported splines and a ZERO restoration of performance. It seems that even though the splines have been deleted, the software is still tracking them and allowing them to use up resources.

 

[JCitron]

I think part of the problem is the amount of splines on a route. This issue doesn't seem to be, well, an issue on smaller routes, but on a route with a lot of splines, it seems it can manifest itself as such. I have noticed that once you have a route with so many splines that there is a performance issue, removing splines does not restore performance. I have a route that started with over 8000 baseboards, using a spread of only 3 baseboards away from track. manually editing that route down to 900 baseboards, and then 300, including the removal of at least 4 LARGE rail yards, has seen a ZERO reduction of reported splines and a ZERO restoration of performance. It seems that even though the splines have been deleted, the software is still tracking them and allowing them to use up resources.

Try using the delete missing assets utility afterwards. Some people have found that works.

 

[Fierogt87]

Try using the delete missing assets utility afterwards. Some people have found that works.

Alas, No luck there...

 

[JCitron]

Alas, No luck there...

Great. After I posted that, I ran into the same issue when I imported a route with lots of splines on it into my own very large route!

In this case, all my tracks and roads and other splines disappeared but the spline points were still visible. When zooming out, all was visible. After a while, the trees and other assets disappeared as well leaving behind only textured baseboards. Being a clone, because I never, ever merge or do anything like that with the original, I gave up and reverted back to my original route.

I did notice in the past that this may be related to certain assets, but I'm not so sure that this is the case anymore in all circumstances. There is definitely something wrong, but we need to document what's going on and submit a report. The problem though is that this is one of those things that's very difficult to track down which makes troubleshooting and repair difficult. When I was a hardware technician back in the 80s, I truly hated and dreaded intermittent problems because you think there's a solution only to have that ditched minutes or even days later.