Question about Railroads and Powerlines

[BigBoyFan4006]

Does the US have any regulations about railroads passing under overhead power lines (power lines used for providing electricity to households)? If so what are they?

 

[cascaderailroad]

I would think that local household and local power company utilities are restricted to underground wiring across RR's ... or to make the wiring and poles very strong ... power lines crossing over the NEC during ice storms would play havoc with rail service ... probably the RR was there first before the power line was built.

 

[bendorsey]

Drive around your local area and look, lol.

On a more serious note I agree with Cascade with the possible exception of extremely high tension lines (500Kv for example).

Ben

 

[BigBoyFan4006]

What about in situations where a railroad is being built and the railroad has no choice but to cross paths with overhead powerlines? Would the railroad have pay for the power company to bury the line under the rails?

 

[bendorsey]

I'd like to say it depends on who was there first. RR there first power company pays. Power lines there first RR pays. A more likely scenario would be a joint expense and of course dependent on local ordnances.

Then the lawyers get involved and it all turns into a can of worms, lol.

Ben

 

[BigBoyFan4006]

I'd like to say it depends on who was there first. RR there first power company pays. Power lines there first RR pays. A more likely scenario would be a joint expense and of course dependent on local ordnances.

Then the lawyers get involved and it all turns into a can of worms, lol.

Ben

Let's just hope the lawyers can be avoided! :hehe:

 

[JCitron]

In my area there are power lines that follow along the railroads and cross over in various places. In these some of these locations, the poles are taller so they don't interfere with any high-wide loads the railroad is carrying.

http://binged.it/1xf1Zny -- Ward Hill, MA (Bradford)

http://binged.it/1AZf7dW -- Bit farther north, closer to Bradford

http://binged.it/1AGrugT -- Near Bradford Depot.

http://binged.it/1AZfvcr -- Crossing the tracks after crossing the Merrimack River near Haverhill Station

and there are more as you go north...

These are the high-voltage, but not the high tension lines. These go to various substations along the way to drop power down for household use. Notice how high some of the poles are as they cross the tracks.

John

 

[RRSignal]

Along an electric railroad like that which surrounds the Philadelphia region, power lines exist to serve both the railroad (as dedicated lines) and commercial users. The portion of each catenary pole set that carries this is called "overbuild." Some lines are said not to have any overbuild, but still manage to carry enough wire for the railroad, like here:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=234886

This scene here is at the last substation along my local line and this scene, photographed by someone else, takes place outside my living room window. You can see that there isn't much overbuild on those towers, yet they carry two 132kv wires at 25Hz for the substation from Philadelphia, 25 miles distant, and signal power cables.

The high overbuilds in this pic are located a few miles south of the last pic. Suspended 80 feet in the air, the wires high up in these catenary overbuilds terminate at a substation just a few hundred feet behind the photographer. The railroad's own power wires are there, but hard to see.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2054133

PECO (our regional power company) owns the air rights. I believe they are on permanent lease from the railroad. But, at this stage, even if the railroad said they didn't want the powerlines on their catenaries, PECO could request an easement and keep them, paying SEPTA for certain maintenance.

On another SEPTA line, traditional high-tension power structures are located over the railroad itself for a few miles, and even double as catenary supports:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3594109
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3594111


As for more traditional power lines, around here, they just go over the railroad or, in rare cases, under a bridge. AFAIK, they don't really negotiate for air rights; as long as there's enough clearance, the power company can request an easement across the railroad, as seen here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.234...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sl2Z6iaLBjvG3mZh_UbnWAQ!2e0

If you pan to the left, you can also get another perspective of the substation and catenaries I mentioned up at the top.

 

[MeowRailroad]

In pic 4, not to go off topic, that shed near the tracks is amazing! So derelict and rusty! Do you think it was a industry from when the RDG used that line (I believe)

Also, why do the Septa reporting marks end in X? Is this because Septa serves 1 "industry" (The city of philadelphia) therefore making it a private carrier?

 

[cascaderailroad]

The City of Philadelphia is not classified as an industry ... It is my understanding that an "X" on the end of an abreviation means "Other Than a RR", ie: SPAX ... and CSX which is not listed as a RR on the NY Stock Exchange, it is a transportation system, like CSMX, which gives them a tax loophole to get Federal funding ... where as a RR's gets different Federal benefits.

 

[nathanmallard]

I thought an X on the end of a reporting mark indicated a leasing company, and that only leasing companies are allowed to use an X at the end, hence why CSX's reporting mark is 'CSXT' rather than just 'CSX'.

 

[Enzo1]

This particular situation involves the area in question, the kind of powerlines we're talking, and the rules. Most of the time, typical power wires going to the home (Not super-high voltage or tension) are buried. As to why you never see the kind of power lines that follow the road follow or cross RR-tracks. Now recently here they built a substation and put in some new High-voltage powerlines. Believe it or not, there is a height restriction on those going to be both crossing the road and the tracks. The height restrictions are generally less on roads since they don't have to deal with double-stacks or Autoracks. There are also High-Tension powerlines that cross the tracks all over the place out here. The rule of thumb is as long as the Power companay can get to them, they usually will cross the tracks. However, out here, where those areas are in particular are fairly isolated and very little what I like to call "Civilization" is present. It is a desert after-all. Restrictions are going to matter on the area a lot.``

 

[JCitron]

This particular situation involves the area in question, the kind of powerlines we're talking, and the rules. Most of the time, typical power wires going to the home (Not super-high voltage or tension) are buried. As to why you never see the kind of power lines that follow the road follow or cross RR-tracks. Now recently here they built a substation and put in some new High-voltage powerlines. Believe it or not, there is a height restriction on those going to be both crossing the road and the tracks. The height restrictions are generally less on roads since they don't have to deal with double-stacks or Autoracks. There are also High-Tension powerlines that cross the tracks all over the place out here. The rule of thumb is as long as the Power companay can get to them, they usually will cross the tracks. However, out here, where those areas are in particular are fairly isolated and very little what I like to call "Civilization" is present. It is a desert after-all. Restrictions are going to matter on the area a lot.``

Where we live, the power company leases land from the railroad and follow the ROW for miles, which can be seen in my BING links. In some places, such as the old Bradford to Newburyport branch as shown here http://binged.it/1CK83mG, the power company purchased the ROW when the line was abandoned during the early 1940s. The grade is still very obvious and some of the bridges were repaired, you need to follow the line to see them, for the power trucks to use the old ROW as an access road.

Where the substations are located along the tracks, the power company runs lines across the tracks to them, and then steps them down to lower voltages for household and industrial use. The only lines that run underground, are in the city or in newer housing developments, all others are up on poles.

John

 

[jordon412]

Also, why do the Septa reporting marks end in X? Is this because Septa serves 1 "industry" (The city of philadelphia) therefore making it a private carrier?

From what I understand, a reporting mark that ends in an 'X' means that the owner of the equipment that the reporting mark is on does not own any tracks. That is why you find it on locomotives owned by leasing companies, i.e. Helm Leasing Company is HLCX, CIT Equipment Finance Corporation is CEFX, General American Transportation Corporation is GATX.

 

[RRSignal]

In pic 4, not to go off topic, that shed near the tracks is amazing! So derelict and rusty! Do you think it was a industry from when the RDG used that line (I believe)

Yep, it looks to be an elevated unloading shed. I have a book on the railroading of the area though I can't seem to find it that may have more details, but here's a video clip (used under Fair Use) taken from Railroad Video Productions' head end ride on the R6 Norristown Line.

http://youtu.be/CGcUsjH9q4g

A Streetview angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...2!3m1!1s0x89c6b89294126aeb:0xe957abef1aa99b44

That whole area is pretty cool.

I believe Jordon is correct as to the use of X in reporting marks.