Project: Revising my TRS19 PBR Parallax SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP track series

[MSGSapper]

Hi Bob
In this case it appears you might be using the heightmap to push the details too far in, so that when you have heightmaps turned off (shader set to 'standard'), the ballast ends up covering everything.

A way to think of this is that when you have shader set to 'standard', the visuals will be the equivalent of the heightmap set to RGB=255,255,255 over the entire texture. 255,255,255 is the 'top' of the surface, and 0,0,0 is the 'bottom', with the greys between being heights between.

From this, I'd suggest that you check how 'light' your heightmap is. To give the best chance of the ballast not covering the entirety of everything with shader set to standard, you'll want the light bits as close to RGB=255,255,255 as possible.

To put it another way, the top of the highest point/rock in your texture should be around RGB=250,250,250 (giving you a little leeway above just in case). The difference between the lightest and darkest part of the texture should remain the same, you just need to make it 'lighter', just not so light as to start clipping the ends (that'll give you flat bits).

Regards

Zec:

While I appreciate the reply and information, I am even more confused now with this explanation. Where is an article published by you all about all this and giving texture examples?

If I read you correctly, you are telling me that only dark ballast will work here, which explains why the ballast for all the built in TRS19 Jarrah track is dark, and sometimes too much so. That means my light ballast will not work in this situation?

I wish I had known all of this before! Now I have to go back, re-do everything, to make my track work for both PBR parallax and non-PBR parallax use. That means re-doing 90 meshes, which is what it takes to make a TRS19 procedural track with three LOD levels. In my opinion you all are just making things more and more complex for all of us content developers out here, especially when you throw in LOD requirements on top of everything else (ie; PBR, Non-PBR, Snow mode, shiny track, rusty track, track with ballast, track without ballast, track only, etc).

Anyone else confused by all of this?

BTW it would be really helpful if you would make all of the source code and textures for the <kuid2:661281:44274:1> TRS19 Trk Jarrah 6 - Library available as part of that procedural track creation tutorial at:

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/HowTo/Build_Procedural_Track_for_T:ANE

Bob

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi Bob
It's not the colour of the ballast itself that is the issue, but rather the brightness of the parallax (aka height) map.

In this case, simply lowering your ballast meshes and lightening the ballast heightmap (but only the ballast) should be able to resolve this issue.

Regards

 

[pcas1986]

I recreated one of my ballast meshes with a PBR material and then tested it in TRS19 SP1 in both standard and ultra shaders. I added a graduated pole to see the effect. One of Bob's tracks is in the foreground.

I didn't really need the pole to measure the effect. :hehe:

This was my height map as produced by one of the Substance products. I didn't attempt to adjust the default height values and it turned out rather dark and also blurry.

I think this one of those cases where you need to do some experimentation to find a combination that works for the various shader nodes.

 

[MSGSapper]

OK I think I have finally found the solution which is the good news. The bad news, is that it required replacing the ballast I was using with a different one. Here are the results:

Screenshot of revised track with Shader set to Ultra:

Screenshot of revised track with Shader set to Standard:

What this means is that everyone regardless of Shader setting will now be able to use my highly prototypical TRS19 SAP Track U.S. Standard Gauge procedural-track assets. These tracks use flat-bottomed 132LB rail with tie plates secured by spikes into timber ties over ballast. The ties are a prototypical 7 inches x 9 inches x 8.5 feet in size and spaced 19.5 inches center-to-center.

This now solves the last of the problems that have been reported. I still have some testing and cleanup to do today but everything seems to now look pretty good I think.

Bob

 

[RJArtim]

Yes they look very good! RJArtim.

 

[blueodessey]

Good Day Sir,

Those new Tracks, look really good..........Thank you for the extended effort.........

 

[MSGSapper]

I have completed the track revision project and uploaded all the files to the DLS. For full details see my announcement at the following forum link:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?83363-Content-by-MSGSapper&p=1796147#post1796147

BTW all my Blender 2.80 project files which cover all 88 meshes are included with the <kuid2:439337:103187:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG Mesh Library-Revised content item.

My thanks to those who participated in this forum thread!

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

I original looked at this track because of a post in the forums pointing out some ballast problems in turnouts in TRS19. I had just made a set of sample turnouts and checked a few out with a new turnout tool that had just been uploaded to the DLS. The turnouts are my own design but the geometry is very close to real SG turnouts. The main difference is that I carry the circular arc of the divergent track from point of frog to point of switch blade where in real turnouts the curve stops short and is finished with a fixed length straight blade. Because of this the lead (distance from frog point to point of the switch blade) in my turnout is slightly longer than in the real turnout by typically a couple of feet. The frog angles are however very exact.

The series [edit] covers turnouts with standard frog numbers (FN) ranging from #4 to #9 by half frog number, #9 to #12 by whole frog number and #12 to #20 by two frog numbers. The tool works with #5, #6, #7, #8 and #9 turnouts so I increased the track beyond the frog to accommodate the tool on those turnouts. Not relevant here but you'll see it in the pics.

I made additional sets with procedural track made with PBR materials especially for TRS19. These were made by coping the original set made for the test and using a bulk replacement to change the track to the new TRS19 PBR procedural track. If you can't tell which track is the old spline version - the basic mesh and textures are at least 15 years old - I suspect you'll be visiting the optometrist soon.

Bob Pearson

Bob:

Can you provide me with specifications in meters for the various turnouts you show? I am considering a new project to see if it is possible to design build 4.6 "snap track" type turnouts. Basically this would like an industry track similar to my SAP BI3 industry tracks and would become whatever track you is connect to it. I need:

1. Total length in meters of straight portion.
2. Starting point location in the straight portion of the track in meters where the track diverges to the left or right.
3. Distance in meters between center points of both straight and diverging track at the point where diverging track is as long as the straight track.

Hopefully you can understand what I am asking for here as I may not be using the right turnout terms for what I need.

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

Bob Pearson:

Never mind. I have found a line of turnouts from GAWPO50 on the DLS which seems to have all the information I need, so cancel that request from me, unless you have something to add. Thanks anyway.

Bob

 

[render2017]

I quickly scanned through the thread but could not see any mention of the issues I have found while trying your track in my current route development.

I am trying to use TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG,FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny to replace TRS19 Track 1 Procedural - Seasonal. Apart from Moire it is superior in appearance to most tracks I have tested.

I have shader set to ultra even though I usually have STD set while building a route.

1. While trying to lay track if I go away to set a switch type or something it defaults back to rail only version. This tends to cause errors when I go back and assume I can continue. I have not seen this with other track types, is this normal or is there a way to set the default. I do have it set in Picklist but don't need to go back there with other track usually.

2. Sometimes it needs to set matching height on switch lever position to fully form frog

3. Also in other cases I need to use straighten tool to get the frog to form correctly, mainly in longer switches

4. I have to replace the PBR texture PBR Gravel 2 - Seasonal with PBR Gravel 5 - Seasonal to get a smooth joint on the ballast to ground position.

I have not seen this reported before so wonder if I am doing something wrong.

I have a 1080 TI Graphics card standard settings i7-9700K with 64GB memory and use TRS2019 version 106136.

Hope someone can suggest solution.

Colin Rayner
render2017

 

[MSGSapper]

I quickly scanned through the thread but could not see any mention of the issues I have found while trying your track in my current route development.

I am trying to use TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG,FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny to replace TRS19 Track 1 Procedural - Seasonal. Apart from Moire it is superior in appearance to most tracks I have tested.

I have shader set to ultra even though I usually have STD set while building a route.

1. While trying to lay track if I go away to set a switch type or something it defaults back to rail only version. This tends to cause errors when I go back and assume I can continue. I have not seen this with other track types, is this normal or is there a way to set the default. I do have it set in Picklist but don't need to go back there with other track usually.

2. Sometimes it needs to set matching height on switch lever position to fully form frog

3. Also in other cases I need to use straighten tool to get the frog to form correctly, mainly in longer switches

4. I have to replace the PBR texture PBR Gravel 2 - Seasonal with PBR Gravel 5 - Seasonal to get a smooth joint on the ballast to ground position.

I have not seen this reported before so wonder if I am doing something wrong.

I have a 1080 TI Graphics card standard settings i7-9700K with 64GB memory and use TRS2019 version 106136.

Hope someone can suggest solution.

Colin Rayner
render2017

Colin:

What is the KUID for the track you are using? Is it one of these:

<kuid2:439337:103196:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny
<kuid2:439337:103407:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny, No Ballast
<kuid2:439337:103416:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty, No Ballast
<kuid2:439337:103409:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, Shiny, Track only
<kuid2:439337:103417:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, Rusty, Track only
<kuid2:439337:103414:1> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty

The above is the latest version....

Bob

 

[jrfolco]

I quickly scanned through the thread but could not see any mention of the issues I have found while trying your track in my current route development.

I am trying to use TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG,FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny to replace TRS19 Track 1 Procedural - Seasonal. Apart from Moire it is superior in appearance to most tracks I have tested.

I have shader set to ultra even though I usually have STD set while building a route.

1. While trying to lay track if I go away to set a switch type or something it defaults back to rail only version. This tends to cause errors when I go back and assume I can continue. I have not seen this with other track types, is this normal or is there a way to set the default. I do have it set in Picklist but don't need to go back there with other track usually.

2. Sometimes it needs to set matching height on switch lever position to fully form frog

3. Also in other cases I need to use straighten tool to get the frog to form correctly, mainly in longer switches

4. I have to replace the PBR texture PBR Gravel 2 - Seasonal with PBR Gravel 5 - Seasonal to get a smooth joint on the ballast to ground position.

I have not seen this reported before so wonder if I am doing something wrong.

I have a 1080 TI Graphics card standard settings i7-9700K with 64GB memory and use TRS2019 version 106136.

Hope someone can suggest solution.

Colin Rayner
render2017

I'm also using the TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG,FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny, on my current WIP, and I have the the same problem with the track defaulting to "Rail Only". However, I also had the "Rail Only" default problem when I used SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny. I still don't know if it is a problem with the track, or a possible glitch in TRS19.

As far as a switch failing to set moveable points is concerned, I have had that problem with other procedural track. It just involves adjusting the track (elevation, distance between splines, etc.) until the moveable points appear.

I'm currently using the above referenced TRS19 SAP track with "LRW Track Brown Ballast" (set at the smallest scale), as the surrounding ballast.

Joe

 

[MSGSapper]

Regarding matching ballast have you seen my post in this forum?

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?83363-Content-by-MSGSapper&p=1796501#post1796501

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

I'm also using the TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG,FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny, on my current WIP, and I have the the same problem with the track defaulting to "Rail Only". However, I also had the "Rail Only" default problem when I used SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny. I still don't know if it is a problem with the track, or a possible glitch in TRS19.Joe

I am not sure I understand what the problem is here. Please take me through the steps to replicate it on a test route...

Bob

 

[jrfolco]

I am not sure I understand what the problem is here. Please take me through the steps to replicate it on a test route...

Bob

When working in Surveyor using TRS19 SAP track, select "Tracks F4", go into ,Track Mode T, and select any one of the new TRS19 Sap tracks. If you then move to Trackside Mode Y, or Trackmarker Mode V, and then come back to Track Mode T, the track defaults to TRS19 SAP Track Only. This defaulting also occurs when using SAP Protrack, but doesn't happen with other procedural track.

Again, I'm not sure if this is a problem with the track, or a glitch in TRS19.

Joe

 

[render2017]

MSGSapper New US TRack Issues

Quote by JRFOILCO

" I'm also using the TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG,FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny, on my current WIP, and I have the the same problem with the track defaulting to "Rail Only". However, I also had the "Rail Only" default problem when I used SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny. I still don't know if it is a problem with the track, or a possible glitch in TRS19."

Regarding this I think the typical steps to reproduce this are

1. e.g. Set up (lay) the track then switch to adjust splines to one level or maybe add some ballast then switch back to lay more track and the default has changed from what was selected to be rail only track which unless you are diligent makes a mess of any additional track being added.

2. In the matter of frogs being corrupted, this occurs when forming a switch and the splines are not all the same height or a spline needs to be added. This is common to all Procedural PBR track but seems to be particularly sensitive with MSGSapper PBR track where all the splines are set to 0.0 but the frog is still corrupted. I have images showing all splines are set to zero but the frog is still corrupted.

Note: I also checked if it is still corrupted in Driver and it is.

While I have images I cannot quite work out how to insert images it does not work for me !

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C3ci3muPXdXBp-qNDbxhqY2ox39PZfbq Close Up

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wmKBBZsvU5Mo6eHezCGGP1Lr-j9pP4iR Overview

Hope this helps explain

Regarding Ballast I have it working OK with the Gravel ballast mentioned in my previous post but tried the ones in your link . . . .. and it does work but does have a slight repeating pattern so I need to use the [ or ] key to rotate while laying it but yes it looks good . . . The gravel one does not seem to have the repeating pattern look at all.

P.S. Forgot to mention YES I have the latest downloaded version of your track from the DLS

 

[MSGSapper]

When working in Surveyor using TRS19 SAP track, select "Tracks F4", go into ,Track Mode T, and select any one of the new TRS19 Sap tracks. If you then move to Trackside Mode Y, or Trackmarker Mode V, and then come back to Track Mode T, the track defaults to TRS19 SAP Track Only. This defaulting also occurs when using SAP Protrack, but doesn't happen with other procedural track.

Again, I'm not sure if this is a problem with the track, or a glitch in TRS19.

Joe

Joe:

Thanks for the steps.

Based on what you say, and what I replicated, this is not a problem with the revised track itself, but just in the "T" mode list itself - true? As for why it does that in the list I have no idea what would cause that.

Bob

 

[horacefithers]

I just tried the new track.

It's freakin' GORGEOUS.

No more missing tie plates (chairs)

No more funky ballast width between closely spaced turnouts.

No more rails-only on short track sections

Much less moire.

And I prefer the brown ballast, too.

THANK YOU Mr. SAP!!!!

Horace Fithers

 

[MSGSapper]

I just tried the new track.

It's freakin' GORGEOUS.

No more missing tie plates (chairs)

No more funky ballast width between closely spaced turnouts.

No more rails-only on short track sections

Much less moire.

And I prefer the brown ballast, too.

THANK YOU Mr. SAP!!!!

Horace Fithers

I think it likes it :hehe:

Seriously though, thanks for the feedback! I put a lot of hours into revising that track and all its meshes (88).

Bob

 

[horacefithers]

The force is strong in this one...

OWK