processor speed

[djt]

Again, here is a good explanation of what the human eye can see as far as computer generated graphics displayed on a monitor is concerned -




http://www.daniele.ch/school/30vs60/30vs60_1.html

 

[johnwhelan]

“Out of the box” from where?


How do you conduct any test of system performance without properly installing drivers?

It wasn't a system test, just a comparison of SSD to "slow" hard drive looking at purely hard drive performance. Possibly digging around may have found some later drivers but I don't think it would have impacted the overall results. The nice thing about doing it on new drives is you don't need to consider fragmentation on where the files are placed.

The Intel SSD box says made in China, the western digital drive was made in Malaysia, I'm sorry to say the Samsung box has been recycled so I can't tell you where that one came from.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

It wasn't a system test, just a comparison of SSD to "slow" hard drive looking at purely hard drive performance. Possibly digging around may have found some later drivers but I don't think it would have impacted the overall results. The nice thing about doing it on new drives is you don't need to consider fragmentation on where the files are placed.

Cheerio John

It was supposedly a test of storage performance, right? Ever hear of chipset drivers?


Sorry but but you don't conduct a test, whether it be storage performance or anything else for that matter, without properly installing the OS first, which includes drivers and Windows updates.


By the way it doesn't matter whether the mechanical drive is “new” or not, it should be defragmented right after you install anything on it.


With the SSD's obviously this is not necessary and not recommended.

 

[johnwhelan]

It was supposedly a test of storage performance, right? Ever hear of chipset drivers?


Sorry but but you don't conduct a test, whether it be storage performance or anything else for that matter, without properly installing the OS first, which includes drivers and Windows updates.


By the way it doesn't matter whether the mechanical drive is “new” or not, it should be defragmented right after you install anything on it.


With the SSD's obviously this is not necessary and not recommended.

Win 7 was installed and Windows update run selecting any hardware drivers that were available via Microsoft. These are the ones that have been tested by Microsoft but occasionally a manufacturer may have a later one that Microsoft have not yet tested. Since the operating system was communicating with the drives through the chipset I think we can assume that the chipset drivers were working fine. The motherboard is an ASUS PT6 WS Professional so it has been around for some time and it's marketed at the workstation market place where there is an emphasis on certified systems to run CAD software etc. I'm fairly confident the the drivers are solid.

The ultimate way to defragment a drive is to reformat it. This puts all the free space together and ensures there are no fragmented files on the drive. In fact there are no files at all on the drive. Yes there are a couple of hidden files when you install Windows on the first boot disk but that was the SSD anyway.

Then when the files are added they are added in the optimal way and they really shouldn't be fragmented unless the operating system is not doing its job.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

Win 7 was installed and Windows update run selecting any hardware drivers that were available via Microsoft. These are the ones that have been tested by Microsoft but occasionally a manufacturer may have a later one that Microsoft have not yet tested. Since the operating system was communicating with the drives through the chipset I think we can assume that the chipset drivers were working fine. The motherboard is an ASUS PT6 WS Professional so it has been around for some time and it's marketed at the workstation market place where there is an emphasis on certified systems to run CAD software etc. I'm fairly confident the the drivers are solid.

The drivers from Windows update are usually very outdated and it is always recommended that you use the latest from the manufactures web site.


So you are telling us that you conducted this “test” by only installing Windows updates and then installed TS2010 without properly finishing the OS installation which includes the drivers for “all” of your hardware?

The ultimate way to defragment a drive is to reformat it.

The “ultimate” way to defragment a drive is to reformat, lol, that's a good one.


The best way to defragment any mechanical drive is with a defragmentation utility, period.

Then when the files are added they are added in the optimal way and they really shouldn't be fragmented unless the operating system is not doing its job.

So are you telling us that defraging a mechanical drive is not needed because the OS does it all?


Should we file this info along with the aluminum case warning you gave us a while back,lol?

 

[Gandalf0444]

Well if you really want to get into it some say de-fragmenting is useless to begin with, and puts unnecessary strain/work on the HD.

 

[djt]

Well if you really want to get into it some say de-fragmenting is useless to begin with, and puts unnecessary strain/work on the HD.

Please point us in the direction of anyone who really has a clue that would not recommend defragmenting a mechanical hard drive!


The responces here are laughable.

I've had mechanical drives that have been subject to daily defragmenting for years without failure.

 

[johnwhelan]

Quote:
Win 7 was installed and Windows update run selecting any hardware drivers that were available via Microsoft. These are the ones that have been tested by Microsoft but occasionally a manufacturer may have a later one that Microsoft have not yet tested. Since the operating system was communicating with the drives through the chipset I think we can assume that the chipset drivers were working fine. The motherboard is an ASUS PT6 WS Professional so it has been around for some time and it's marketed at the workstation market place where there is an emphasis on certified systems to run CAD software etc. I'm fairly confident the the drivers are solid.
The drivers from Windows update are usually very outdated and it is always recommended that you use the latest from the manufactures web site.


So you are telling us that you conducted this “test” by only installing Windows updates and then installed TS2010 without properly finishing the OS installation which includes the drivers for “all” of your hardware?





Quote:
The ultimate way to defragment a drive is to reformat it.
The “ultimate” way to defragment a drive is to reformat, lol, that's a good one.


The best way to defragment any mechanical drive is with a defragmentation utility, period.




Quote:
Then when the files are added they are added in the optimal way and they really shouldn't be fragmented unless the operating system is not doing its job.
So are you telling us that defraging a mechanical drive is not needed because the OS does it all?


Should we file this info along with the aluminum case warning you gave us a while back,lol?

@@@@

Strangely enough Microsoft actually do compatibility testing so their drivers work together rather than the manufacturer's drivers that sometimes work but sometimes have problems. Microsoft recommend you use the drivers that have been certified ie available via their web site. You may recommend something else but I reserve the right to ignore your recommendations.

All the drives are connected via the same SATA controller and we are looking at relative performance only. Note we are not looking for absolute optimum performance only relative performance so the test is valid.

I'm saying there is no point in defragging an empty hard drive. I'd say think about it but you may find the concept a little difficult.

For any one else who is interested defragmenting means rearranging the files so all the bits are together and on the better defragmentors all the empty space is arranged together. Also you want all the files for an application to be grouped together. On a freshly formatted drive there is only one area of empty space, there are no files that could be fragmented. When you install the application then the files get written to the disk one after the other or in other words they are grouped together.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

Microsoft recommend you use the drivers that have been certified ie available via their web site. You may recommend something else but I reserve the right to ignore your recommendations.

It's not just my recommendation but the recommendation from anyone who has any experience in setting up a machine to run performance applications (games), again nothing new, 15 minutes of research on-line could have told you that.

Note we are not looking for absolute optimum performance only relative performance so the test is valid.

Right, so are you saying that not properly installing the OS “WILL NOT” effect the out come of the test?


Sorry but common sense says differently.

I'm saying there is no point in defragging an empty hard drive. I'd say think about it but you may find the concept a little difficult.

How is the drive “empty” if you have just installed the OS and TS2010 on it?






Rather than argue with me about this why don't you stop hiding in a Trainz forum and start discussing this in a real hardware forum?


If a real hardware forum is too much for you you can start here -


http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=29




See any mention of defragmentation not being needed on a fresh OS install here in this guide under “DEFRAGMENTING CORRECTLY” ? -




http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=34141&PID=198177#198177

 

[johnwhelan]

Well if you really want to get into it some say de-fragmenting is useless to begin with, and puts unnecessary strain/work on the HD.

You tend to have some files that are read many times. Microsoft word program for example. Provided it is loaded onto a fairly empty hard drive then it isn't particularly fragmented when its installed. If you manage to fragment it or spread it over the drive so the head is moving back and forth it will take longer to load.

A temporary log file that is badly fragmented might take a little longer to write because of head movement but if you aren't going to read it again so what if its badly fragmented.

Program files are typically 20+ mbs these days, a word document might be 20k so again the size of the file affects performance if its fragmented. A badly fragmented document will have little impact on performance. If you are installing a new copy of Word its probably worth while defragmenting the drive before installation to get a big chunk of free space together.

When you install software typically many files are installed at the same time, on a newly formatted drive this means grouped together so they can be read quickly together. Track to adjacent track access is faster than inside track to outside track. If you use a poor defragger each individual file is defragged but the group maybe spread around the hard drive making performance worst than if no deframenting had taken place.

Then of course the hard drives don't actually put the sectors where they say they do. The outer most tracks have more physical sectors in them than the inner ones, this of course is a complicating factor.

So you can actually make a case for not defrgmenting a hard drive on performance grounds provided the drive is reasonably empty and you haven't upgraded your most used software.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

When you install software typically many files are installed at the same time, on a newly formatted drive this means grouped together so they can be read quickly together. Track to adjacent track access is faster than inside track to outside track. If you use a poor defragger each individual file is defragged but the group maybe spread around the hard drive making performance worst than if no deframenting had taken place.
Cheerio John

That's why you use a good defragmentation utility like O&O Defrag right after installing software. Even after a fresh OS install on a otherwise empty drive you'll find fragmentation.

So you can actually make a case for not defrgmenting a hard drive on performance grounds provided the drive is reasonably empty and you haven't upgraded your most used software.

Not unless your misinformed, lol. By the way did you register over at that forum yet?




Since you now have your new system up and running I'd like to see what kind of performance you are getting. How about installing Fraps and show us some screen shots with the same scenarios as I posted with the 975/5870?


Max out the settings in TS2010 and RailWorks, use a high resolution with at least 8xAA /16xAF and don't forget to list the exact specs on your machine (including RAM timings and BIOS revision).

 

[Gandalf0444]

How come this has to turn into a contest to see who has the bigger _______ Whenever someone talks about how super there computer is they have a tendency to try to show it off, causing other people to get pissed off at one another.
And if for someone who knows oh so much about computers...How come your on a trainz forum?

 

[djt]

How come this has to turn into a contest to see who has the bigger _______ Whenever someone talks about how super there computer is they have a tendency to try to show it off, causing other people to get pissed off at one another.
And if for someone who knows oh so much about computers...How come your on a trainz forum?

You can have all the hardware in world but if you don't know how to set it up it's not going to get you very far. Johnwhelan's results from his “new” setup are proof of this -


http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=55446

I'm not just on a “Trainz forum" and have welcomed Johnwhelan to share his misconceptions in a real hardware forum many times already.​

 

[johnwhelan]

You can have all the hardware in world but if you don't know how to set it up it's not going to get you very far. Johnwhelan's results from his “new” setup are proof of this -


http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=55446

I'm not just on a “Trainz forum" and have welcomed Johnwhelan to share his misconceptions in a real hardware forum many times already.​

I wasn't aware that I had submitted any benchmarks after setting up the system. The SSD to disk drive comparison was done specifically on default settings as things came out of the box to reduce the variables and was not done to demonstrate the performance possible.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

I wasn't aware that I had submitted any benchmarks after setting up the system. The SSD to disk drive comparison was done specifically on default settings as things came out of the box to reduce the variables and was not done to demonstrate the performance possible.

Cheerio John

That's why I said that any test of system performance should be done after the OS is properly installed. I would certainly never start installing programs before the OS installation was finished.


I would hope that you'd be getting better performance out of that setup then the “32.35 frames per second over five minutes” you mentioned in that post. I can get that out of my laptop.

 

[djt]

will my 2.16 ghz processor run trs2010 or do i need a new computer? i would like to know sence my one route is almost done.

I've got a three year old Dell XPS laptop with a 2.3GHz Core 2, 4Gb of RAM and a GTX 7950 Go graphics card, I'll be glad to post my results with that system to show you how important the CPU is to TS2010 performance, lol.

If you haven't already seen it here is what kind of performance I get in TS2010 with the 2.3Ghz Core 2 -


http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=55295&page=2


Like I said in my original response, it's not going to set the world on fire (it's performance was less than half of what I get out of the i7 and the Go 7950GTX isn't helping much either) but if you don't mind an occasional slide show you'll be able to run TS2010.