Payware Route Etiquette

[mp202]

Hello,

I was wondering what it takes to make a payware route. Some things like features, content included, etc. And I also noticed on the MPRX, there are many pieces that were not made by HP-Trainz. Can someone tell me why that is and give me a run-down of what can be included in a payware route? Also locomotives and rolling stock are sometimes distributed with the route. Does everything have to be custom made for them to be distributed?

 

[oknotsen]

I was wondering what it takes to make a payware route. Some things like features, content included, etc.

A proof of skill and a market.
In other words:
Proof your skill, like for example Joosten did by having a 900 (I'm off by a few, I know) page long screenshot thread before publishing his route.
A market, which basicly comes down to a route in demand. Usually a route that has room for activity or has decent sessions supplied with it.

And I also noticed on the MPRX, there are many pieces that were not made by HP-Trainz. Can someone tell me why that is and give me a run-down of what can be included in a payware route? Also locomotives and rolling stock are sometimes distributed with the route. Does everything have to be custom made for them to be distributed?

Although these look like two questions, I think the answer is the same: Check the licence on the item.
Examples:

• Some items have something in the licence along the lines of "use however you like".Those can be freely included in your payware route.
• Some items have something in the licence along the lines of "not to be used in payware".Guess what? Indeed; not to be used for your payware.
• And then there is the 3rd option: "Nobody is allowed to use this asset in any shape, way or form for anything they are asking and/or getting payment for in any shape, way or form without written approval of me, the creator of this asset." That basicly comes down to "contact the author and ask (and get) permission".

Hope this is the information you are looking for.

 

[johnwhelan]

According to N3V you may include anything on the DLS in a payware route no matter what the license on the asset says. However be aware that many assets use textures which specifically are not licensed for payware and if the copyright holder complains then N3V will I suspect have to remove them from the DLS.

www.mayang.com textures for example are quite widely used on the DLS but their freeware license quite specifically does not include payware.

Cheerio John

 

[oknotsen]

According to N3V you may include anything on the DLS in a payware route no matter what the license on the asset says.

Can you point me where they mention that?
Because as far as I know, N3V is allowed to use anything on the DLS into their payware because of the "Planet Auran license agreement" but everyone else will have to follow the licence supplied with the assets.

 

[josefpav]

Because as far as I know, N3V is allowed to use anything on the DLS into their payware because of the "Planet Auran license agreement" but everyone else will have to follow the licence supplied with the assets.

This is true.

According to N3V you may include anything on the DLS in a payware route no matter what the license on the asset says.

This is false. As I know, N3V never stated this. If you want to distribute DLS assets together with your route (no matter if pay- or freeware), you have to contact the author for granting license. But you can use DLS content with your route, the user has to DL the missing DLS content from the DLS. You are not authorized to distribute it with your route.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning All
To clarify this.

For content on the Download Station, you can reference the content (use it on the route), irrespective of the license. This means that the kuid number of the asset is in the config and the map files. The asset isn't redistributed if you just give someone the route, with no other items.

However you cannot redistribute the content with the route. To use the route, the buyer would need to download the 'dependencies' from the Download Station.

If you wish to redistribute the content with the route, then you would need to obtain permission from the original author.

John, I've covered this a few times. However, please read the above VERY carefully. As per other times this has been answered, the content may be used/reference in payware, however it may not be redistributed without permission. This is no different to any other asset referencing it.

Just to add, the license for N3V is a little different, in that we can use DLS content in 'payware' releases (including DLC packs, full versions of Trainz, etc).

Regards

 

[johnwhelan]

Good Morning All
To clarify this.

For content on the Download Station, you can reference the content (use it on the route), irrespective of the license. This means that the kuid number of the asset is in the config and the map files. The asset isn't redistributed if you just give someone the route, with no other items.

However you cannot redistribute the content with the route. To use the route, the buyer would need to download the 'dependencies' from the Download Station.

If you wish to redistribute the content with the route, then you would need to obtain permission from the original author.

John, I've covered this a few times. However, please read the above VERY carefully. As per other times this has been answered, the content may be used/reference in payware, however it may not be redistributed without permission. This is no different to any other asset referencing it.

Just to add, the license for N3V is a little different, in that we can use DLS content in 'payware' releases (including DLC packs, full versions of Trainz, etc).

Regards

I think we are both saying the same thing, payware can use content from the DLS. The semantics may be different but what the payware customer sees and imagines their paying for is the entire route including DLS content. The fact it isn't packaged as a single file seems to be irrelevant unless you feel somehow this bypasses mayang's etc. freeware licensing on their textures.

I'm unhappy because some of my content on the DLS uses textures that specifically are not licensed for payware and you won't remove them on my request.

Cheerio John

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi John
It might have been me miss-reading your wording in this case (along with a few others).

According to N3V you may include anything on the DLS in a payware route no matter what the license on the asset says.

I took this to mean redistribute, rather than just reference.

I can understand your point, however the content itself is still freeware, and freely available. For the person to obtain it, they have to download it from the free source. The only part being paid for is the route itself, and any exclusive content included (and redistributed) with the route. Anything else is still freeware content.

Regards

 

[WindWalkr]

I think we are both saying the same thing, payware can use content from the DLS. The semantics may be different but what the payware customer sees and imagines their paying for is the entire route including DLS content. The fact it isn't packaged as a single file seems to be irrelevant unless you feel somehow this bypasses mayang's etc. freeware licensing on their textures.

The key point here is that it's illegal to redistribute somebody else's content unless you have permission. It is not illegal to reference the content by KUID, regardless of the license on the content itself. It may be illegal to pass off somebody else's content as your own creation, but the lines here are much more blurry and would depend on exactly what claims you have made (potential fraud) or appear to be making (false advertising.) If you don't pass off the content as your own, but simply reference it from your creation, then you're about as safe as you can be. (I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice; laws differ according to jurisdiction; yada yada.)

I'm unhappy because some of my content on the DLS uses textures that specifically are not licensed for payware and you won't remove them on my request.

That is indeed unfortunate, but you should perhaps have considered that before granting N3V a license to redistribute the content in question. The download station model is based around maintaining availability, and would quickly fall apart if we started removing every item of content that somebody was having second thoughts over.

kind regards,

chris

 

[johnwhelan]

The key point here is that it's illegal to redistribute somebody else's content unless you have permission. It is not illegal to reference the content by KUID, regardless of the license on the content itself. It may be illegal to pass off somebody else's content as your own creation, but the lines here are much more blurry and would depend on exactly what claims you have made (potential fraud) or appear to be making (false advertising.) If you don't pass off the content as your own, but simply reference it from your creation, then you're about as safe as you can be. (I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice; laws differ according to jurisdiction; yada yada.)


>I'm unhappy because some of my content on the DLS uses textures that specifically are not licensed for payware and you won't remove them on my request.

That is indeed unfortunate, but you should perhaps have considered that before granting N3V a license to redistribute the content in question. The download station model is based around maintaining availability, and would quickly fall apart if we started removing every item of content that somebody was having second thoughts over.

kind regards,

chris

It appears that the understanding of the rules over time has changed and who from Auran / N3V is responding. Many content creators were of the same opinion as myself that the license in the config.txt file was sufficent to meet the non payware requirement of the texture licenses. Based on the current understanding some specific assets would not have been uploaded to the DLS simply to comply with undertakings given to the texture copyright holders. All assets uploaded since your clarification to the DLS have the appropriate texture license. For those items that don't have the appropriate texture license a number of items have not been updated, eventually they will fall by the wayside as the version number increases and others have been made available in other ways.

Perhaps a more honest thing for N3V would be to say there was a misunderstanding and to clear the matter up we are willing to remove assets from the DLS where the content creator feels they misunderstood that their items could be used in payware routes.

As it stands at the moment we have content on the DLS that mayang amongst others could demand is removed as it breaks their copyright agreement. This basically means that any payware route builder to be certain the content will be there in future has to examine every asset to check the texture copyright.

I am certainly not prepared to license the textures involved for payware so some one else can make money.

Cheerio John