Obstacles to uploading freeware routes on the DLS .

[dangavel]

I decided to see how many built in routes I need to have installed in 2022 to allow anyone to be able to download all the assets for the Timber Ridge Line , which is about 40 miles in total . its an old route , merged with parts of some routes i never completed , partially converted to standard gauge and updated several times for 2019 and now 2022.

The route has had a bit of an update and is also having a number of sessions created for it by Pitkin so we will soon have the unenviable task of trying to ensure that anyone who wants to use it will be able to find its assets with the minimum degree of difficulty. .

There may well be cross over assets in some of these routes, but in total , it appears that you would need to have most of these routes installed in order to avoid having unknown assets .

its too big a job to cross check each asset ( although there may be a way to do so that i don't know about ), but it is an indication as how silly this situation now is. As more payware creators include more items off the DLS in their builds, the list of pakcaged itmes grows exponentially and the average user has to download more and more packages in order to run fairly small routes.
The list
West from Denver -Moffat route.
Kickstarter County.
Avery Drexel
Healesville 1913-20
C&O Hinton division
Bidye traction railroad
Canadian rocky mountains Golden
Season town northern ( possibly )
ECML kings cross -Edinburgh
Cornish mainline and branches
Liskeard to Looe .

I also found 5 packaged payware items in the route , there were only two of these items in the 2019 version in SP4, when I created it in SP1 I don't think there were any , now there are 5 in 2022 .
another indication of how hard it is for freeware route makers to keep up with the changes in asset status when uploading routes to the DLS .

Just as an indication , how many here would not want to bother uploading all that lot in order to run the sessions ?

Or do most of us already have the routes installed anyway in order to run the packages or other freeware routes ?

 

[grazlash]

If you have been with Trainz a while, since T:ANE at least, a user would have most if not all of these routes. Avery-Drexel was a T:ANE Deluxe route as was Healesville (if that one is the older version). The newer version was a separate purchase. I have all the shipped with versions routes installed on one TRS22 install (used for checking my Main South route before uploading) and all payware non MRR routes installed on a separate install along with a large amount of DLS assets. I do try to filter for DLS Only assets when building, but even then some packaged assets slip through for some reason. I hate missing assets so I would install a payware DLC route as required to solve them.
I have to agree, it's getting more difficult cleaning up before an upload and bulk asset replace really gets a workout.
cheers Graeme

 

[stouthm]

No, I would not upload your route. I run only North American routes, so I do not have at least six of those required routes. Don't need more assets that I won't be using. That being daid I do appreciate all your efforts toward this sim. Thanks.

 

[Frank_Dean]

Since my Trainz beginnings (2005), routes from DLS or third party sites around the world have almost always had missing kuids. A few authors have bothered to report the origin of the missing kuids and even provided them privately.
In this case, the author "Dangavel" is worrying too much.
When you have your route finished or ready, simply upload it to the DLS with a minimum of information about the difficult kuids.
Those who do not like it, or have hundreds of missing kuids because they are not interested in the routes that are internal to the game and do not want to install them, simply delete the route and let the rest of us who love routes made with absolute mastery enjoy it.
Thank you for your work and for your great effort in meticulously reproducing an amazing landscape.
You are one of the best route makers.


Sorry for any possible translation errors.

 

[dangavel]

No, I would not upload your route. I run only North American routes, so I do not have at least six of those required routes. Don't need more assets that I won't be using. That being daid I do appreciate all your efforts toward this sim. Thanks.

We've cross referenced it more and the list is now shorter
West from Denver -Moffat route.
Kickstarter County.
Avery Drexel
Healesville 1913-20
C&O Hinton division
Canadian rocky mountains Golden
Season town northern ( possibly )
ECML kings cross -Edinburgh
Cornish mainline and branches
Even though its a north American route , there are a number of UK vehicles in the route which have all become payware , I'm going to remove them and see what difference it makes , the problem is , some of these US routes also contain Australian textures and buildings, possibly only half a dozen or so . There are 1100 payware items in the route and I'd say 98% of them are North American Canadian assets .
I'm going to try and weed out these so its more likely that people will download it. The sad thing is that as far as I know there no easy way to identify all the routes the assets are contained in. Is there a way to find out which routes contain a specific asset ?

 

[grazlash]

Only right clicking an asset and 'view dependants' will show that to my knowledge.
It would be worth checking the older Healesville route to see if those assets are used there also

 

[Heinrich505]

Dangavel,
I closely followed all the amazing things you did to bring Klinger's route more up to date in your thread for Timber Ridge. When I first discovered TANE, I had never had any train simulators before. I was completely taken with the fact that I could experience trains and routes from all over the world. For this reason, and the fact that I was still working and making money, as opposed to now that I am retired and money is tight, I picked up all sorts of routes from all over the world. Consequently, I had many of what would become the "core" routes that always seem to crop up with packaging when new routes are uploaded by authors.

Of your list of routes, I am missing only West from Denver - Moffat route and Liskeard to Looe. I've been fortunate that I picked up all those other routes in the past, as well as many other N3V payware routes, in that I didn't seem to suffer the bane of having tons of missing assets.

Now that my hard drives are pretty well filled, I find that I only have your earlier Timber Ridge route, adjusted in many ways from things I've added, and now under my kuid number. I would have your 101671 version route if I had more room on my computer.

I am absolutely amazed at the wonderful things you did with Timber Ridge, and knowing your reputation in the Trainz Community, if I didn't already have all the needed payware routes "required" to avoid a boatload of missing assets, I would be paying for them just to be able to run a route that you did, or in this case, improved greatly upon an already amazing job that Klinger did.

Now, seeing that many are more circumspect in their choices of what to purchase, for a variety of reasons, I suspect that many new people to Trainz might not be as quick to purchase 9 routes just to experience a single route. As Frank_Dean notes, they would see all the missing assets, delete, and move on to some other route. This would be unfortunate in the case of Timber Ridge, because it is a stunning route that one can easily get lost within, completely absorbed by the amazing variety of things one could engage in. Time seems to fly by when I am working trains on the Timber Ridge Route. If I get another external hard drive or free up some room, I might download your latest 101671 version, but then I'd have to re-create all the many things I've added previously on the older version.

Your point is well taken though. Many newer people to Trainz will not feel the need to purchase that many payware routes just to be able to enjoy a single route, no matter how good it is. It is definitely an obstacle for those new to Trainz, but not so much so for those who have been picking up routes in the past. It is unfortunate that so many payware routes are required now to enjoy many freeware routes that are uploaded. If one purchased each one of those routes right now, it would cost over $240.00. Admittedly, one could wait for sales to happen, and the cost would be much less. A few of these routes have broken sessions, so the purchaser is getting less than what they are actually paying for, but to pay for all those routes just to play a freeware route with few missing assets is significant. Essentially, any freeware route that requires some of all of these payware routes is no longer freeware. Perhaps that is a conscious design.

The argument can also be made that no one "has" to purchase those payware routes, and can simply delete any missing assets and run the freeware route for free. And, they can also substitute assets, if they aren't brand new to Trainz and have the skill level to do so, to make the route look better. It won't look as good as the author intended, but it will be freeware. But this then becomes an obstacle to any author who is thinking of uploading a route for people to enjoy. If the folks that might download it will have the task of hunting for substitutes, or paying for additional payware routes, then the author may decide he will just enjoy the route himself and not share it with the community.

Anyone on this forum for a while will know that Dangavel's routes or updates of routes are first class. I have him to thank for resurrecting Klinger's Timber Ridge and making it even more amazing. I am fortunate that I purchased all those routes in the past, so that I can enjoy what you put out. It's unfortunate that others that don't have all those routes will be missing out on a truly wonderful experience on the Timber Ridge. This, then, will also discourage authors from uploading their routes for the community.

My thoughts.

Heinrich505

 

[pitkin]

Unless my memory fails me, I did not directly "purchase" any of the routes mentioned. They came along with Trainz purchases. I don't know how many you would get if you started fresh with TRS22.

 

[rwk]

I made a complaint about that to maxwerks's route post and he replied that he put me on his ignore list. Oh well. He used a lot of payware content from DLC routes in his route so you must buy all the routes in order to have no missing kuid's but some of the DLC routes look like built ins. So, a freeware route could cost you $200 in order to have all the assets.

 

[Forester1]

Deleted.

 

[mtldrm38]

I noticed that issue when I first got into trs2022 and was like what the! But all the DLC turned out to be free routes that I had to download to get the assets returned to my actual routes done from previous versions of trainz and anything else I just replace with another asset... Pending your internet connection (cable here) it does consume several hours to retrieve and rebuild...