New PC - Mac or Other?

My current machine is running Windows 7, and I've only had to go through a full reinstall once because of my own stupidity- I was tempted by an offer into up(down?)grading to Windows 8, and I quickly came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me- my life isn't exciting enough for 'Live Tiles' and I found the entire interface to be too touchscreen-oriented for my liking. I also dislike intensely the trend in OS design towards huge fonts, childlike buttons, and simple applications and utilities taking up the whole screen for no apparent reason (apart from touchscreens, which my PC doesn't have). Good luck to those who get on with all this stuff, but I'll probably end up sitting out Windows 8 and seeing where all this goes.

One thing that is worth considering if you want to keep any new machine 'clean' is to be very careful what files you open, keep to a very limited set of core programs that you know and trust on the main operation system, and use a program like Oracle's VirtualBox (free) to create one or more virtual machines for experimentation and one-off program installations to do particular jobs. I run Windows 2000 in a VM in order to run GMax, an old version of CorelDraw and a couple of other older programs, and I've also got an Ubuntu VM to experiment with Linux apps. I find Linux to be handy for finding programs to do file conversion or low level disk tasks. I prefer not to give my VMs access to the Internet, to limit opportunities for malware. If your VM gets trashed for any reason, you can simply delete it and build another one without affecting the performance of your main OS.

Regards

R3
 
Hi all
And thanks again for all those that have chipped in with advice.
Firstly I will only be running 2004 as a main game. I do have other versions but used those only to test assets before uploading them. But with N3V now making life almost impossible for me to upload other versions of Trainz can be ignored.
So we are back to basics, well almost, I have Trainz and UTC but do not use them anymore.

Had a look on that siet but standard PC's (office typres) are bordering on the edges of not suitable. The gamers seem to be better so I'll look more closely at those but they all seem to come with Win 8 installed and I am not interested in that.

As far as building one I wouldn't know which end to start. Yes, I do know what the components are called (more or less) but putting them into a case, connecting everything up and then expecting it to actually work is another thing altogether. It would probably start making sausages....

I will look at scan.co and see what they have.

After running McAfee it found 3 whatevers and fixed those so now hopefully when I restart the Desktop icons will be where I left them and programs won't start when I try to move them back into position. Also ran Regclean just to make sure.

Even a complete reinstall on this PC would not cure it, I need a better one and have promised this machine to a friend to do gun club work on. I try not to break my word....

So the saga continues, rather like Eastenders.... haha.

Bless you all,

Angela
 
angelah said:
The gamers seem to be better so I'll look more closely at those but they all seem to come with Win 8 installed and I am not interested in that.
Click to expand...
Several of the well known brand names offer Win 7 as an option, particularly for those models targeting business and other professional users. Local dealers may offer a free Win 7 DVD when you purchase one of their preconfigured Win 8 machines. Make sure you get a 64bit edition.
 
angelah said:
Hi all
And thanks again for all those that have chipped in with advice.
Firstly I will only be running 2004 as a main game. I do have other versions but used those only to test assets before uploading them. But with N3V now making life almost impossible for me to upload other versions of Trainz can be ignored.
So we are back to basics, well almost, I have Trainz and UTC but do not use them anymore.

Had a look on that siet but standard PC's (office typres) are bordering on the edges of not suitable. The gamers seem to be better so I'll look more closely at those but they all seem to come with Win 8 installed and I am not interested in that.

As far as building one I wouldn't know which end to start. Yes, I do know what the components are called (more or less) but putting them into a case, connecting everything up and then expecting it to actually work is another thing altogether. It would probably start making sausages....

I will look at scan.co and see what they have.

After running McAfee it found 3 whatevers and fixed those so now hopefully when I restart the Desktop icons will be where I left them and programs won't start when I try to move them back into position. Also ran Regclean just to make sure.

Even a complete reinstall on this PC would not cure it, I need a better one and have promised this machine to a friend to do gun club work on. I try not to break my word....

So the saga continues, rather like Eastenders.... haha.

Bless you all,

Angela
Click to expand...

And do yourself a big favor when you get your new PC, don't put McAfee on it. It is the worst of the AV programs, and slows most PCs down to a crawl, plus it misses viruses. Look at Nod 32 by Eset or AVG
 
Robert2d6 said:
And do yourself a big favor when you get your new PC, don't put McAfee on it. It is the worst of the AV programs, and slows most PCs down to a crawl, plus it misses viruses. Look at Nod 32 by Eset or AVG
Click to expand...

Or of course the Microsoft antivirus free product. I think its been said that 99% of the Malware on Windows comes from people looking at the loop holes that Microsoft have just blocked in the latest update then using that information to attack unupdated machines.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
.. in the security world they do not have a good reputation for Malware resistance, its normally considered to be about ten years behind Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Heh, not a chance. Both sides are very advanced compared to the state of the art ten years ago. Both sides have their weaknesses, the greatest of which is of course the user. Windows is perhaps just reaching the point where it is possible for a typical user to run without third-party virus/malware protection, the Mac has always been at that point. (You can argue the technical reasons of why this is, but the fact remains valid and that's all important to the typical end user.)


Probably the sanest solution I can offer is to buy a UPS
Click to expand...

You can get a UPS quite cheaply and I second this recommendation. In addition to giving you safety against short power outages, a decent UPS will also filter a lot of 'noise' out of your power.


I also see a lot of people here mentioning to avoid Windows 8. I don't agree with this. There are definitely some things missing in the default experience, but there are free and well-known utilities to restore these, and supposedly the first Service Pack will restore a lot of this functionality to the default install anyway.

hth,

chris
 
>.. in the security world they do not have a good reputation for Malware resistance, its normally considered to be about ten years behind Microsoft.

WindWalkr said:
Heh, not a chance. Both sides are very advanced compared to the state of the art ten years ago. Both sides have their weaknesses, the greatest of which is of course the user. Windows is perhaps just reaching the point where it is possible for a typical user to run without third-party virus/malware protection, the Mac has always been at that point. (You can argue the technical reasons of why this is, but the fact remains valid and that's all important to the typical end user.)


I also see a lot of people here mentioning to avoid Windows 8. I don't agree with this. There are definitely some things missing in the default experience, but there are free and well-known utilities to restore these, and supposedly the first Service Pack will restore a lot of this functionality to the default install anyway.

hth,

chris
Click to expand...

Shall we agree to disagree on the security question, I think the arguments are summed up quite nicely here: http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/04/10/macs-safer-than-pcs/

Two pertinent points are a bot net has been found running on 500,000 Macs and there has been a large increase in Malware targeted at the Mac environment over the last few years. I think Vista was the first of the more secure Windows operating systems, Win 7 was an improvement and Win 8 has improved on it again.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
Two pertinent points are a bot net has been found running on 500,000 Macs and there has been a large increase in Malware targeted at the Mac environment over the last few years.
Click to expand...

Anybody who says any particular computing platform is completely immune to malware is a fool. That does not change the fact that the numbers are very much in Apple's favour at the moment.


I think Vista was the first of the more secure Windows operating systems, Win 7 was an improvement and Win 8 has improved on it again.
Click to expand...

I agree that Microsoft has been making significant inroads in security.

Let's not continue this here, because it's very much off-topic. I just didn't want Angelah to be under the impression that Macs were somehow 'less secure' than Windows pcs, which is what your previous post implied to me.


kind regards,

chris
 
Alrighty Angela, Let's try to make this simple, as according to what you said earlier, this is all Chinese to you. Though I'm a PC user myself, I am experienced with Mac, Linux, and Windows. Macs are probably the most stable around, but Macs aren't recommended if you're on a budget. Linux, though Trainz isn't available for it, is the cheapest (almost every Linux OS is OpenSource), there is very limited software compatibility, and if you want to run Trainz on it, you will need a program called Wine (If you're using Ubuntu). Wine is capable of running Windows apps on Ubuntu, but for other Linux OS's, it isn't available and you will have to get a Virtual PC software. If you're on a budget, you can get a PC for anywhere from $100/₤65 to $3,000/₤1,940. Good luck!

-Matt
 
epa said:
Wine is capable of running Windows apps on Ubuntu, but for other Linux OS's, it isn't available

-Matt
Click to expand...

Sorry but you are completely wrong. Perhaps you need to look at this list. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=distribution&sTitle=View Distributions

Wine will work on any Linux distro or for that matter BSD or even OSX, I've had TC3 and TS 2009 runing in Wine on Mandriva, PCLinux OS, SuSe and Mint. There is also Crossover, a commercial version of Wine which again will run on any Linux Distro. What it won't do is run Trainz if you don't know how to tweak things in Wine and I don't think will be any help to Angela.

Wine has been used on Linux for years before anyone had even heard of Ubuntu.
 
clam1952 said:
Sorry but you are completely wrong. Perhaps you need to look at this list. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=distribution&sTitle=View Distributions

Wine will work on any Linux distro or for that matter BSD or even OSX, I've had TC3 and TS 2009 runing in Wine on Mandriva, PCLinux OS, SuSe and Mint. There is also Crossover, a commercial version of Wine which again will run on any Linux Distro. What it won't do is run Trainz if you don't know how to tweak things in Wine and I don't think will be any help to Angela.

Wine has been used on Linux for years before anyone had even heard of Ubuntu.
Click to expand...

Ah. Well thanks for correcting me. I have used Ubuntu and Fedora, but I have been unable to find Wine for Fedora.

-Matt
 
By the way - one thing you may want to consider is the fact that when you buy a new pc - you can insist it has Win 7 on it not 8. Shops will sell you what is on the shelf because it is convenient, but you are the one paying - you pay for what you want not what they want you to have. I had this argument in a large well known retail store not so long ago. Its like buying a car - if you wanted a blue one but it wasn't in the showroom - only a red one - would you accept the red one? No you would insist on the blue one. The same principle applies to pc's - you have a right to have your requirements met not have the salesperson's substitue. Besides the shops are very much aware that win8 is not selling as many pcs. Win7 ones are still selling. Insist on what you want. And as far as I know you should not have to pay extra for this as most pc's are sold with an OS installed.
You could always have them remove the OS and reduce the price accordingly though I am less sure if this is possible.
 
All this is only confusing me even more - and that isn't too difficult in the first place.

Here is a quote :- [When I'm building, or recommending a machine for someone else, I ask these questions as I'm determining what is needed for the right job.

1) What do you really want your machine to do?
Is this going to be a wiz-bang gaming machine where you need the latest and greatest hardware with super cooling and high speed fans?

2) Is this a general-use computer?
One where you'd do office stuff and browse the internet.

3) One in between?

What you don't want to do is go about this based on price only. The office machine is the cheapest initially based on cost. You'll have built-in video, or low end video and graphics and a small power supply. This is enough to browse the web and do email. For most home users this is okay.

What you don't want to do, which we've seen here so many, many times, is purchasing the office/home quality machine and expect it to run graphics intensive programs. It's the same as purchasing a car with a 4-cylinder engine and expecting it to tow a big trailer behind it all the time. In the case of the PC, you'll actually spend more money reconfiguring the basic box as you replace the paltry under powered video card and power supply. You'll probably have to add more memory, and a bigger hard drive as well so in the end you would have actually spent less with better hardware to start off with.]

Firstly I would be hopless at building a PC.... end of story on that one.

From the set of 3 questions I would choose the third, a general purpose PC that is used mainly for mails, Internet connection and Gmax. It would be used to run only TRS2004 as a full-blown Trainz Game and as I won't be making any more assets for later versions of Trainz due to the stupid rules governing textures that have recently been introduced by N3V who seem to forget that we are not using machines built in 2004 any more, the new ones are far, far more powerful and could easily handle a single texture, the machine probably do anyway in other games and off the Internet. So I really do not need a super-duper all singing all dancing PC with water cooling (!!!!) and a rocket attached to it. Sorry, I know those who suggested such a thing were only trying to help so please forgive me that little dig, but water cooling? I have never heard of that before in a PC, my car has it but not my PC....

Oddly an office/general machine is all I have ever bought in the past, but with slight upgrades to the power unit and graphics cards, oh and added RAM of course. The GC would remain the same make but a slightly better one but again not the best in that particular makers list, often 2 or more down from the top. Ram upgrades are standard for me anyway.

So just routine jobs for the machine with the odd journey along tracks in TRS2004. I will not be reinstalling any other Trainz versions again, there is no point now that I do not need to test assets in them.

For the kind person who mentioned McAfee, I do have that on this Desktop but may change to AVG which is on my laptop. Incidentally my laptop runs Win 7 and I cannot say I like it all that much, but then I don't like laptops much either. Maybe I have been spoiled by XP and have got used to it?

So in summary :- I hope that gives you all a better understanding and it is my own fault for not being more explicit in the first place, so I am terribly sorry to those that have spent much time and effort going into some pretty (for me) wild machines.
To have bought a Mac would have meant saving up for a few months so I am not made of the filthy luker, just an old age pensioner. So a PC in the £500-600 bracket would probably do me. Please state if you think this would not produce a machine capable of doing the things I need it to, I can wait a while.

On another matter and after running a full McAfee scan to stop all my Desktop icons being bundled onto the left side where I did not place them, it found 3 viruses and 'fixed' them. It seems it did not and the icons were once again all on the left side and all mixed up when I booted this PC up this morning. Any suggestions?

Blessings,

Angela

PS. I have a second HD in this PC as well as a 1TB external, so I am not stuck for drive space. I try to keep C:/ clear of all but the bare necessities.
 
Angela, you are looking for a standard off-the-shelf PC, with 64 bit Windows 7 pre-installed (insist on it), a graphics card suitable for average gaming, something like 8 GB of main memory and a one Terabyte disk.

Forget Linux, forget Mac, forget all the hardware gadgets. You won't be able to run TRS2004 on Linux or Mac and you wouldn't know why you purchased water cooling and the like.

There is one aspect to consider these days: noise. Graphics card manufacturers offer variants with active or passive cooling and everything in between. Passively cooled systems are significantly quieter.
 
angelah said:
On another matter and after running a full McAfee scan to stop all my Desktop icons being bundled onto the left side where I did not place them, it found 3 viruses and 'fixed' them. It seems it did not and the icons were once again all on the left side and all mixed up when I booted this PC up this morning. Any suggestions?

Blessings,

Angela

PS. I have a second HD in this PC as well as a 1TB external, so I am not stuck for drive space. I try to keep C:/ clear of all but the bare necessities.
Click to expand...

Run belarc www.belarc.com/free_download.html that will give you the serial number of your XP and lots of other junk, print off the results.

Then reinstall Windows XP. If you have picked up something nasty then reinstalling the operating system is the best way to clear it. It should also make the machine run significantly faster. With the updates XP prefers more memory than it used to get by with if you have less than 4 gigs I'd add memory to take it up to 4 gigs.

Do the reinstall even if you give the machine away. You should be able to get a suitable machine for 600 if you keep the existing monitor.


[h=3]Zoostorm Desktop PC[/h]- Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz
- 16GB RAM + 2TB HDD
- DVD Writer
- Intel HD
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64bitZoostorm Desktop PC Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz 16GB RAM 2TB HDD DVDRW Intel HD Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit reviews

£579.00inc vat

Looks quite a respectable system to me. The CPU is probably more than you need and it has more memory than I think you need as well but its within your budget. The Intel integrated graphics shows up quite nicely on Tomshardware list of graphics cards.

Cheerio John
 
To guarantee that your machine is free of any virus or malware, once affected is a gamble. If you don't get everybit of it you could have a keystroke logger on your machine sending your passwords, acct numbers etc, to some bad guy somewhere. The only real cure is to wipe the harddrive completely, reinstall windows, make sure you run every one of the updates, which will take hours, load the drivers you need and then reinstall everything. A good day's work in most cases. That is the only sure way to make certain your machine is not infected with something. Then get a good AV program and make sure it is kept up to date. Of course, Windows XP will only be supported for less than a year, and then support goes away, so this might be a good time to switch to Windows 7.
 
amigacooke said:
I wouldn't have thought integrated graphics and Trainz was normally a good mix.
Click to expand...

The GPU isn't very important to TRS2004, the Intel 4000 integrated graphics isn't too bad, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html comes in about a 7600 GT or an X850 XT. You're paying for three cores which you aren't going to use running TRS2004 but that's life.

I'm going by the stated requirements and the stated budget, not what I'd buy myself. The Intel 4000 graphics keeps the cost down.

Cheerio John
 
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