New Desktop for T:ANE!

nathanmallard

Well-known member
Hi all,
You'll have noticed that I have been posting less screenshots here recently. That's because my now 7-year Acer desktop is on the verge of kicking the bucket, and a replacement is needed. Now, I may know lots about trains, but I can't say the same about computers, so what do you guys think to this:
https://www.asus.com/uk/Tower-PCs/K20CE/
At just £229 from John Lewis, I think this little guy is a bargain. But what do you think? Will it run the latest version of Trainz okay?
 
No, you can run away from that one. It doesn't tell you what graphics card or controller it has.
For graphics, an Nvida GE Force GTX 750 or higher is what you look for.
Otherwise you will end up with stutter and unacceptable frame rates.
4GB of ram, not enough, most of us go for 8GB - maybe even 16GB, even if we have to buy another 8gb stick and put it in.
"Intel Quad Core Processor" is a bit vague. What is it? Most would look to an 8 core processor, if we can afford it.

to be kind, look a bit further and be a bit more specific. I take it you want to run T:ANE ?

While £229 looks like a bargain, it is not a games computer and could disappoint you.
 
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I wonder if it would run Trainz 2004 OK. 4 GB of RAM is definitely not enough as stated above. That CPU, N3700 is not meant for anything other than light tasks, definitely not for gaming. What GPU does it have? If it's a separate graphics card again, it needs to be fairly powerful to run TANE. If it's the on board graphics, forget about it. A 65W power adapter? Is that like a laptop charger? Is there just a battery and no internal power supply?

The price translates to $329 USD. You couldn't get a decent TANE capable machine for that over here so I would definitely "run away" from this one.
 
If you read the small print it says it can be specced with...

Translation if you spend a chunk of money on extras it will etc. It's aimed more at streaming blu ray etc than running TANE. It may not have the power supply or cooling suitable for TANE. There are some new nVidia GPU cards expected out in June time frame that should be interesting.

Budget wise you should expect to pay £250 just for the nVidia GPU then you'll need a box to put it in plus CPU,disk drives etc. say 750 for an i5 plus a GTX970 8 gigs of memory and that's not super high end.

Cheerio John
 
Well, I ran away from it! I eventually bit the bullet with this one:
http://www.johnlewis.com/asus-m32bf-desktop-pc-amd-a8-8gb-ram-1tb-silver/p2529667
8GB Ram, AMD Radeon R7 Graphics Card with a Quad-core AMD A8-7600 processor. I had a £300 budget ceiling, so I got the best I could. I googled the graphics card and it seems pretty decent, so it should run T:ANE acceptably even if I do have to turn the sliders down a bit. Should definitely cope with TRS2012.

I wonder if it would run Trainz 2004 OK.

The computer I have at the moment only has 3GB of RAM, of which 2.75 is useable. TS2010 gets framerates of about 8-20fps on average, which is obviously unacceptable, although to be fair it ran much faster when I got it. TRS2004 was much better, averaging about 25-30fps, with the occasional jump to 40 in low detailed areas, but I can't really remember it that well as I uninstalled it ages ago.
 
(apologies for double post)

If you read the small print it says it can be specced with...

Translation if you spend a chunk of money on extras it will etc. It's aimed more at streaming blu ray etc than running TANE. It may not have the power supply or cooling suitable for TANE. There are some new nVidia GPU cards expected out in June time frame that should be interesting.

Budget wise you should expect to pay £250 just for the nVidia GPU then you'll need a box to put it in plus CPU,disk drives etc. say 750 for an i5 plus a GTX970 8 gigs of memory and that's not super high end.

Cheerio John

Of course I would love to build my own gaming supercomputer but I just haven't got the money, or the technical skill tbh. £250+750 =£1000, which is over three times my budget!
 
Anything of the mini PC variety other than a couple of expensive MSI and Asus ones, are not going to be capable of gaming.
Processor is actually a Pentium 1.6GHz, only 2.4 on boost, which is below TANE minimum spec, needs to be a 2GHz i series processor minimum.
There is no discreet card option on any of the ones advertised at any of the well known suppliers, so suspect that's BS, it's Intel Integrated graphics and I doubt an external 65watt PSU is going to be capable of running anything other than the lowest level discreet card, if that was even possible which I suspect it's not. Effectively it's a cheap laptop in a box.....
Only 2 sata ports both used so no expansion capabilities.
500GB HDD, too small if you intend actually using it!
4GB Ram is not enough these days especially if you are loosing some of it to shared graphics.
Afraid Asus as with many other manufactures are quite capable of producing junk as well as high end stuff.
I'm guessing that whatever you have at present is probably higher spec than this?

If cost is an issue you may be better looking at an AMD processor with a decent GPU.

Edit:
See I've been beaten too it re the AMD.
 
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Erm yes lol I got side tracked having a look at AMD rigs and was a bit late posting.

Least you have something you can expand on now if required!
 
Nice small, bookshelf case. That is all I see it good for. You'll want something more substantial than this, honestly.
 
I have run T:ANE on a lot less than an AMD A8 and if that's what the budget will stretch to good luck with your new computer. Peter
 
I think he has done OK.

I have read a couple of reviews of the AMD A8-7600:

Better Competitive Positioning
First, the good news—the A8-7600 is a huge improvement over AMD's previous 45W part. It outperformed the AMD 6500T on every front, sometimes by enormous margins. Single-thread performance for the new A8-7600 is 15 to 20 percent faster, while multi-threaded performance is as much as 40 to 60 percent faster. GPU performance is also significantly improved, by 30 to 40 percent, over the old core. These improvements help explain why AMD wants to position the A8-7600 at a $130 price point—while that's about 15 percent more than the $115 list price on the 45W AMD 6500T, the A8-7600 is a much better deal in terms of its price/performance ratio or performance per watt.


Unfortunately, for all the A8-7600's notable improvements, it's a mixed matchup against the Intel Core i3-4330. AMD blows past the Intel chip in gaming tests and OpenCL support in programs like PCMark 8's Creative suite help close the gap, but in anything CPU-centric, the Core i3-4330 pulls ahead. It's 70 percent faster in single-thread Cinebench and 34% faster in the multi-threaded version. If AMD had kept the price of the A8-7600 at $115, the nearly 20% price gap between it and the Core i3-4330 would have made it much easier to overlook these deficiencies, but at $130 vs. $139, they're a real concern.


Whether the A8-7600 is going to meet your needs depends entirely on what kind of chip you're looking for. If you value the lightweight gaming performance and good-enough CPU figures, then the A8-7600 is a better chip than anything Intel currently offers. If you want a balance of CPU and GPU performance, however, you'll need to look carefully at the kind of applications you want to run. While HSA and Mantle are both solid PR points, neither technology is shipping at the moment and we'll need to see performance figures in final software before recommending you buy into either ecosystem.

The key word is "ecosystem". One day, we are all going to be running our computers off the solar panels on the roof.

With an AMD Radeon R7 Graphics Card, I suspect you you will be happy with what you have purchased. As above, it looks like the chip can drive the game at the fps you are accustomed to, and that will likely take you through the next 2 or 3 iterations of T:ANE and Driver.
 
Thanks for the reassurances! Looks like I actually have got a bit of a bargain! I'm just glad I didn't choose the expensive paperweight I was originally gonna go for.
the chip can drive the game at the fps you are accustomed to
Is it possible to predict what kind of framerates I'd get with, say, TS12? Ideally I'd want no lower than 25fps in heavily detailed areas. With my current PC, I have to use every trick in the book to get "acceptable" framerates. No anti-aliasing, low screen resolution, "game boosters", you name it, I've tried it, and I still get a bit of lag. But I don't suppose it matters now since I've gone and bought a new one :D
 
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There seems to be a range of discreet GPU cards that have the name R7 and a "Onboard Video Chipset: - Integrated AMD Radeon R7/R5 Series Graphics in A-series APU" which is packaged with a complete motherboard for $60 locally.

One wonders what you've brought. An R7 360 looks quite respectable http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html as good as the top of the line integrated Intel GPU which is reported to run TANE with lower settings and shadows off.

Cheerio John
 
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Slightly disappointing that I might not be able to use shadows I guess but hey, it's not like I can't save up and get a better graphics card later! I haven't actually got T:ANE yet, so I will be using TS12 first. One wonders why Trainz games always seem to be more resource-intensive than their contemporarys, this has been noted in several reviews of both T:ANE and TS12. For the next version, N3V should probably have a look at fixing this so that you don't have to buy a £700 custom PC to run it to it's best abilities. ;)
 
Slightly disappointing that I might not be able to use shadows I guess but hey, it's not like I can't save up and get a better graphics card later! I haven't actually got T:ANE yet, so I will be using TS12 first. One wonders why Trainz games always seem to be more resource-intensive than their contemporarys, this has been noted in several reviews of both T:ANE and TS12. For the next version, N3V should probably have a look at fixing this so that you don't have to buy a £700 custom PC to run it to it's best abilities. ;)

It should run TS12 OK, that one depends on the CPU more than the GPU. Shall we simply say with a lot of home built sub optimised content that doesn't help, choose your content carefully and even TANE should run. TANE though has been developed with less resources than many similar simulators and took the decision to try to incorporate as much older stuff ie content as possible. The outcome was fairly predictable.

It's still cheaper than a model railway layout, £700 wouldn't go far.

Cheerio John
 
Don't get to despondent if a survey was carried out probably only the minority actually own anything resembling a 'gaming computer' must are content plodding along enjoying Trainz and making the most of what they have while hoping for something a little better next time they are in a position to upgrade/replace, a bit like owning a car. I think you would also find many have shadows turned off with more sliders to the left than the right, unfortunately the desire for improved shadows, animated points, swaying rolling stock etc, all of which absorb GPU resources left N3V with the choice of moving forward with T:ANE or another iteration of TS2012.

As John has pointed out Trainz is far less resources hungry than the majority of simulators while T:ANE is likely in excess of 95% backwards compatible with TS2012 as was TS2012 with TS2010 etc. and has provided the building blocks for future models.

For the money I think you have purchased well, whats more coming from John Lewis its probably also comes with a two year warranty. There is nothing stopping you from adding a better graphics card in the future to perhaps enable shadows but in the mean time enjoy Trainz while keeping your eyes open for any of those dedicated gamers recycling their old gaming machines. Peter
 
Don't get to despondent if a survey was carried out probably only the minority actually own anything resembling a 'gaming computer' must are content plodding along enjoying Trainz and making the most of what they have while hoping for something a little better next time they are in a position to upgrade/replace, a bit like owning a car. I think you would also find many have shadows turned off with more sliders to the left than the right, unfortunately the desire for improved shadows, animated points, swaying rolling stock etc, all of which absorb GPU resources left N3V with the choice of moving forward with T:ANE or another iteration of TS2012.

As John has pointed out Trainz is far less resources hungry than the majority of simulators while T:ANE is likely in excess of 95% backwards compatible with TS2012 as was TS2012 with TS2010 etc. and has provided the building blocks for future models.

For the money I think you have purchased well, whats more coming from John Lewis its probably also comes with a two year warranty. There is nothing stopping you from adding a better graphics card in the future to perhaps enable shadows but in the mean time enjoy Trainz while keeping your eyes open for any of those dedicated gamers recycling their old gaming machines. Peter

My comment about resources was more about the size and skill set of the programming team. It was / is very small for the size of project, the bug list is still over 200 bugs, and it is fairly isolated in that there aren't that many other groups of programmers locally which in turn means fewer traninig courses etc. Given the very limited programming resources plus the desire to reuse old assets its not suprising that it needs a lot of hardware to compensate. In my opinion it use far more resouces than other simulators but it does have a wider range of content.

Cheerio John
 
Well I decided to go mad and spend some of interest from my savings, ordered a PC Specialist rig as my stuff is getting a tad worn out.
Vanquish Destroyer Pro II
i7-6700K
16GB DDR4
2TB HDD
240GB SSD
GTX980Ti

Think that will run TANE ok? :hehe:
 
Well I decided to go mad and spend some of interest from my savings, ordered a PC Specialist rig as my stuff is getting a tad worn out.
Vanquish Destroyer Pro II
i7-6700K
16GB DDR4
2TB HDD
240GB SSD
GTX980Ti

Think that will run TANE ok? :hehe:

Only 240 gig SSD? I take it you're putting the operating system on the hard drive and being selective about what you download?

Cheerio John
 
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