new computer -abysmal performance

[dangavel]

I'd appreciate some advice on just why my new windows machine is running TRS 2022pe so badly.
its build 126273
im not using many PBR textures , no HD, screens are 1024X768.
performance settings
Half synch,shadows quality low, shader standard, texture detail normal, post processing and water quality low, detail scenery off, antialiassing 4x.

I have an Acer Nitro 5 laptop with a 1660t1 with 6gb 16 gb ram Intel 9750 2.6 ghz I7 and that ran all my routes in 2019 pretty well on high settings .
I was using 2019 sp4 on that , its only disadvantage was it would not support two monitors. Due to space restrictions on the laptops hard drive i have 2022 installed on a Samsung external drive, but it still worked pretty well with most of my routes as they were not that large, but they are highly detailed.

So I updated to a desktop unit , intel 17 265kf 3.9 ghz with 32 gb ram and rtx 4070 12gb running two screens . so essentially twice the vram and twice the RAM . Theoretically a better processor ? .

The DSP&P Alpine Tunnel route I am building in 2022 is big, around 600 MB in content manager, I installed the Trainz data build on the internal SSD hard drive as well as the Trainz install . However on this new desktop PC once i started adding vegetation things started slowing down greatly. I've removed a lot of pbr textures, thinned down my vegetation, but even after that, I am getting a huge degree of lag, even when adding jvc grass items, I'm clicking and waiting to see just what is going to appear, its that slow .

All settings are on low detail ,my draw distance is 10,000, scenery and tree detail normal, but taking a drive means the track disappears in front of me, if i look back, theres an empty scene for up to six seconds. its woeful performance . In surveyor its pretty much the same stuff is disappearing and taking a long while to return, Ive been suign copy past a lot to save tiem, does that impact performance ?

i just tried the route on my laptop , hardly any difference between that and the PC and thats with it installed on the external drive.So essentially , I've spent $2500 on a unit that so far isnt any better then my four year old laptop.

i've given windows defender permisson to allow the app to access networks ( should I set that to public or private ?

i opened up some other big routes , roys canadian route, 600mb , which doesnt seem to have much in the way of grasses and no pbr textures , a bit of lag, but not nearly as much, west of denver was a bit raggedy , but items were not disappearing, quite honestly that ran better on a macbook air with 2022 installed with an M1 processor than the windows version.

I cant think of anything else I can do , could it be the crud that the Acer or the PC company has installed that is messing things up ? , I have no other antivirus software installed.

i've previously used the grasses and sages extensively in trs2019 and tane routes thst I've made and they did not slow things down like this. They didnt when I used them in the earlier 2019 version of this very route.
Any suggestions would be appreciated as Its pointless me continuing with this route if my computer wont support it. Other than a ( highly expensive ) card upgrade what else can I do ?

 

[pcas1986]

Did you run a prebuild? i.e. Developer menu ->Run Trainzutil with just "prebuild". That may help but you may need to go mow the lawn while its doing it.
Is it doing validation while the game is running? I'm not sure what triggers that and whether it runs according to some game mode but that will slow things down. Reminds me of the old TS12 days when validation started you may has well go on holiday for a while.
Is Task Manager busy? That may give some clues.

The specs look way good enough to me.

 

[dangavel]

Did you run a prebuild? i.e. Developer menu ->Run Trainzutil with just "prebuild". That may help but you may need to go mow the lawn while its doing it.
Is it doing validation while the game is running? I'm not sure what triggers that and whether it runs according to some game mode but that will slow things down. Reminds me of the old TS12 days when validation started you may has well go on holiday for a while.
Is Task Manager busy? That may give some clues.

The specs look way good enough to me.

i agree, it should be able to cope, I'll try the prebuild option. Thanks for the suggestion , not sure what you mean by validation ..... it foen doesnt save properly even though I've saved multiple times. on relaunch it tells me that i have unapplied changes and do I want to apply or revert, but then 2019 does the same all the time.
Would upgrading to sp5 help ? or reinstalling the entire app ? , I am always reluctant to go upwards as it often fixes some issue and then introduces others that didn't exist previously

 

[HPL]

Trainz Plus SP5 runs smoothly on an i9 9900K, 32GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB VRAM) @2560x1440 with all settings to max (with or without PBR textures/HDT). The only glitch is the GPU temperature (but this is Trainz specific). OS is Windows 10 Professional.

 

[johnwhelan]

Try it on one screen and see what happens. Two screens doubles the pixels that it drives and doubles the hardware requirements. The other thing is just use it for a week. I've seen windows optimise itself over a few days. Silly question what sort of disk drives are you running?

Thanks John

 

[AFdude06]

@dangavel If you have GeForce Experience or the NVidia app you may want to consider tweaking some hardware settings. If high latency is your issue maybe the CPU settings for the game need to be adjusted:

A

Thread 'TRS22 and NVidia RTX'

Oct 24, 2024

Good evening all!

I have been a Trainzer for a long time now, and one thing I notice often on the forums, is that lots of posts discuss the performance and optimization issues of the game. I have had my share of these problems and figured I would share the results of a solution I have used to help sort out two of those issues:

First, Trainz often has issues with frame drops and inconsistent frame rates.
Second, Trainz is very CPU bound and that can contribute to latency problems.

The heart of my PC is an NVidia RTX GPU, and with NVidia's app, there are settings I can tweak to change the...

• AFdude06
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Trainz Railroad Simulator 2022

• 
• 

Hope this helps.

 

[paulper]

Did you run a prebuild? i.e. Developer menu ->Run Trainzutil with just "prebuild". That may help but you may need to go mow the lawn while its doing it.
Is it doing validation while the game is running? I'm not sure what triggers that and whether it runs according to some game mode but that will slow things down. Reminds me of the old TS12 days when validation started you may has well go on holiday for a while.
Is Task Manager busy? That may give some clues.

The specs look way good enough to me.

During a session of mine, the logs show that it is constantly validating, which I'm sure slows things down. Any idea how to stop that? Would Developer menu ->Run Trainzutil with just "prebuild" help as suggested above?

 

[JCitron]

During a session of mine, the logs show that it is constantly validating, which I'm sure slows things down. Any idea how to stop that? Would Developer menu ->Run Trainzutil with just "prebuild" help as suggested above?

Go into Trainz settings on the Launcher.
Click on the Dev tab
Check Enable advanced debug tools.

Close the window...

On the Developer menu:
Click on Run Trainzutil Command...

A status bar will open up and another bar will open up where you type in prebuild

Depending upon how much content you have, this can take a while to run with a while being polite.

This may help, I hope.

If this solves this for you, I'll do it myself because I'm suffering from the same issue with my large route. Track disappears, splines in general take a very long time to load. I've lowered the graphics settings and while I see excellent frame rates, I have lousy graphics.

 

[pcas1986]

During a session of mine, the logs show that it is constantly validating, which I'm sure slows things down. Any idea how to stop that? Would Developer menu ->Run Trainzutil with just "prebuild" help as suggested above?

As I understand it, a prebuild precache all your assets and that should make routes load faster. Validation seems to be intermittent and I don't know exactly what causes it. Maybe downloading something like a route with a lot of new assets?

 

[dangavel]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I ran prebuild,which didn't take all that long to accomplish. it did seem to make some difference.


I've never used copy paste to apply vegetation or textures until now , I've done it to save time . I really cant see how this woulld make things worse, but could this be a factor?
Would windows defender be a contributing issue ?, I've set the firewall exception to private, should it be public ?
Would trying a new install of 2022 on my computer which uses the lastest build be an idea ? , I'd want to keep this one in case there was any issues , would installing the program twice cause any problems?


What is so annoying is that I was able to run this route when it was about 30 miles shorter using 2019 on a laptop with half the ram and GPU power on higher settings . it was REALLY highly detailed. I now find that in 2022 it will barely function unless I spend another couple of grand on a better gpu , or split the route into sections and provide portals so people can then run trains along the whole thing. How on earth anyone can make a very long route with masses of HD and pbr textures is beyond me , unless one spends around 5 to 6 grand.I'm not going to do that. Imagine how much of a computer killer Kings cross to Edinburgh would be using PBR and HD ....
it appears to me that with changes made to the various builds, many of the most essential assets needed to make realistic country based routes such as grasses etc which are all old and probably highly inefficient , are making demands on the computer that only the highest specified computers can cope with. My problem is there are no good textures that will represent sagebrush at a distance,or grass for that matter Ive tried using using PBR over wide areas,as it often looks better than tane textures , but once again it brings the computer to its knees. I do blame this directly on nv3 as they have never bothered to provide more than a smattering of vegetation that keeps up with the changes in the game, how they manage to attract new customers when many may experience that is to of substandard game play with mid range gaming computers is beyond me. .
Can anyone recommend any grasses that are single or grouped that are more efficient within the current game that I can use to replace the old JVC vegetation ,as it seems going on as is is pointless.

 

[pcas1986]

Make sure you have the latest NVidia drivers. One recent release would not wake up a monitor after sleep mode so you can re-enter your key and that affected me. The last release I installed fixed the problem. Can't say I noticed any difference in performance.

Maybe the new Treez replacement system will help but its still in beta with warnings to creators not to upload their test objects to the DLS yet. It will take a while before an extensive range of the new flora will be available.

My PC is slowing down and is most noticeable when rendering sample materials in Substance Painter. It's almost as bad as the old GTX780 I replaced with the latest, back then, RTX2080Ti. I've been looking around for a decent "made to order" PC for a couple of months now without finding something I like. I don't really want a gaming machine that lots of flashing lights and rather a workstation that has much the same grunt.

 

[dangavel]

Try it on one screen and see what happens. Two screens doubles the pixels that it drives and doubles the hardware requirements. The other thing is just use it for a week. I've seen windows optimise itself over a few days. Silly question what sort of disk drives are you running?

Thanks John

I've been running this setup for over a month now, the problems kicked in once i started adding vegetation and textures on the additional DEM .i could run two screens on the laptop with no issues in 2019 I don't think that's the issue. The drive on the pc is a kingston snv3s1000g, not a particularly top end performer, in oz it costs around $89 and i have considered updating to something with greater speed and possibly more ram , I suppose i could clone it and then move the system and trainz to a new drive or just bung trainz and the database onto another faster ssd ?

 

[dangavel]

Make sure you have the latest NVidia drivers. One recent release would not wake up a monitor after sleep mode so you can re-enter your key and that affected me. The last release I installed fixed the problem. Can't say I noticed any difference in performance.

Maybe the new Treez replacement system will help but its still in beta with warnings to creators not to upload their test objects to the DLS yet. It will take a while before an extensive range of the new flora will be available.

My PC is slowing down and is most noticeable when rendering sample materials in Substance Painter. It's almost as bad as the old GTX780 I replaced with the latest, back then, RTX2080Ti. I've been looking around for a decent "made to order" PC for a couple of months now without finding something I like. I don't really want a gaming machine that lots of flashing lights and rather a workstation that has much the same grunt.

updated drivers and also played around with some of the settings,seems to render a bit faster. I'll probably update my so so kingston ssd to a much faster one. I took a long time to chose this pc, bought it as it had a 4070 with 12gb vram and the company was local .

 

[pcas1986]

The speed of that drive doesn't seem that shabby but I haven't done a wide survey. Faster drives, such as those by Samsung, appear to be nearly three times the price but definitely not three times the speed.

I looked up what I bought as a "build to order" PC back in 2019 and it had a Samsung EVO 970 1TB M.2 SSD and its read speed is about half of your Kingston drive. It's still working well. I buy my stuff from MWave in Sydney and can still look up old orders.

If you have spare and suitable ports on your new machine you might consider a separate drive for Trainz installations. Trainz will still create an empty, but structured, database on your boot drive but you don't have to use that. Easier to back up as well.

 

[paulper]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I ran prebuild,which didn't take all that long to accomplish. it did seem to make some difference.


I've never used copy paste to apply vegetation or textures until now , I've done it to save time . I really cant see how this woulld make things worse, but could this be a factor?
Would windows defender be a contributing issue ?, I've set the firewall exception to private, should it be public ?
Would trying a new install of 2022 on my computer which uses the lastest build be an idea ? , I'd want to keep this one in case there was any issues , would installing the program twice cause any problems?


What is so annoying is that I was able to run this route when it was about 30 miles shorter using 2019 on a laptop with half the ram and GPU power on higher settings . it was REALLY highly detailed. I now find that in 2022 it will barely function unless I spend another couple of grand on a better gpu , or split the route into sections and provide portals so people can then run trains along the whole thing. How on earth anyone can make a very long route with masses of HD and pbr textures is beyond me , unless one spends around 5 to 6 grand.I'm not going to do that. Imagine how much of a computer killer Kings cross to Edinburgh would be using PBR and HD ....
it appears to me that with changes made to the various builds, many of the most essential assets needed to make realistic country based routes such as grasses etc which are all old and probably highly inefficient , are making demands on the computer that only the highest specified computers can cope with. My problem is there are no good textures that will represent sagebrush at a distance,or grass for that matter Ive tried using using PBR over wide areas,as it often looks better than tane textures , but once again it brings the computer to its knees. I do blame this directly on nv3 as they have never bothered to provide more than a smattering of vegetation that keeps up with the changes in the game, how they manage to attrqact new customers when many may exepeince that is to of substandard gameplay with mid range gaming computers is beyond me. .
Can anyone recommend any grasses that are single or grouped that are more efficient within the current game that I can use to replace the old JVC vegetation as it seems going on as is is pointless.

I wonder since you've moved from 2019 to 22 (and assuming it's the latest build) whether this has anything to do with Process Objects Behind Camera being forced upon us? I noticed a real drop in performance when this happened to me earlier this year. I reviewed and removed a number of assets I suspected were not helping. In some scenes performance jumped 50%.

 

[paulper]

On the Developer menu:
Click on Run Trainzutil Command...

A status bar will open up and another bar will open up where you type in prebuild

Depending upon how much content you have, this can take a while to run with a while being polite.

This may help, I hope.

If this solves this for you, I'll do it myself because I'm suffering from the same issue with my large route. Track disappears, splines in general take a very long time to load. I've lowered the graphics settings and while I see excellent frame rates, I have lousy graphics.

Thanks John. The process completed for me in about 5 minutes. Early signs suggest this has helped with my problem with track splines taking a long time to load as I move from one part of my route to another. As that's akin to your issue I suggest it might be worth a try. It did not help with the 'validating' issue. That is still appearing in the logs

 

[dangavel]

I wonder since you've moved from 2019 to 22 (and assuming it's the latest build) whether this has anything to do with Process Objects Behind Camera being forced upon us? I noticed a real drop in performance when this happened to me earlier this year. I reviewed and removed a number of assets I suspected were not helping. In some scenes performance jumped 50%.

i'm still running 2022 sp4, i turned off process objects as when i tried it, it pretty much froze up !.is it turned on in the latest version ? thats insane !

 

[pcas1986]

The option to "Process objects behind camera" was mentioned a week ago in Trainz Discord and this is what an N3V person had to say:

This feature has been removed in the latest versions, however a bug meant the option appears in some builds in the in-game settings still. As the option has been removed, attempting to turn it off in the settings will not change the setting. This has been done as it can cause issues on some modern systems, has a lot of drawbacks on gameplay and performance, and provides little benefit on current hardware.

 

[JCitron]

Thanks John. The process completed for me in about 5 minutes. Early signs suggest this has helped with my problem with track splines taking a long time to load as I move from one part of my route to another. As that's akin to your issue I suggest it might be worth a try. It did not help with the 'validating' issue. That is still appearing in the logs

That's good to hear. I'll test this later when I get back from my appointments. I noticed a correlation with the missing track and splines and the location on the route. The assets disappear right at the border between baseboards as if the data is loaded in chunks. Pressing pause allows the content for the next group of baseboards.

At the next group of baseboards, the data is then retrieved from disk causing missing content because it isn't cached. The cached data is a much smaller size than the larger assets the program has to load from disk, disk meaning any storage including SSDs. While SSDs are faster than old spinning hard disks, they are still slower than RAM, and still lag when loading large amounts of large content.

 

[JCitron]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I ran prebuild,which didn't take all that long to accomplish. it did seem to make some difference.


I've never used copy paste to apply vegetation or textures until now , I've done it to save time . I really cant see how this woulld make things worse, but could this be a factor?
Would windows defender be a contributing issue ?, I've set the firewall exception to private, should it be public ?
Would trying a new install of 2022 on my computer which uses the lastest build be an idea ? , I'd want to keep this one in case there was any issues , would installing the program twice cause any problems?


What is so annoying is that I was able to run this route when it was about 30 miles shorter using 2019 on a laptop with half the ram and GPU power on higher settings . it was REALLY highly detailed. I now find that in 2022 it will barely function unless I spend another couple of grand on a better gpu , or split the route into sections and provide portals so people can then run trains along the whole thing. How on earth anyone can make a very long route with masses of HD and pbr textures is beyond me , unless one spends around 5 to 6 grand.I'm not going to do that. Imagine how much of a computer killer Kings cross to Edinburgh would be using PBR and HD ....
it appears to me that with changes made to the various builds, many of the most essential assets needed to make realistic country based routes such as grasses etc which are all old and probably highly inefficient , are making demands on the computer that only the highest specified computers can cope with. My problem is there are no good textures that will represent sagebrush at a distance,or grass for that matter Ive tried using using PBR over wide areas,as it often looks better than tane textures , but once again it brings the computer to its knees. I do blame this directly on nv3 as they have never bothered to provide more than a smattering of vegetation that keeps up with the changes in the game, how they manage to attract new customers when many may experience that is to of substandard game play with mid range gaming computers is beyond me. .
Can anyone recommend any grasses that are single or grouped that are more efficient within the current game that I can use to replace the old JVC vegetation ,as it seems going on as is is pointless.

Are you using your sagebrush assets? I ran into a couple the other day that have issues loading and caused an awful redraw, track and terrain issue.

<kuid:44878:115219> DG uintah rwy JVC reskin:sagebrush 9 no 2 for sage group 2

There's another asset with a similar name that also caused the problem.

I discovered the problem on NARM's GILA route. This was my solution.
https://forums.auran.com/threads/narm-new-payware-release-12-28-24-gila-railway.179747/post-2054306

I sadly didn't send you a message. I got involved in a non-Trainz project and totally forgot about it.