Will your DLC, sitting on a disc, work with the version of Trainz you bought to run it if the world stopped turning tomorrow? You have both discs.*
N3V Needs to support pre-SP1 users with DLC
- Thread starter nathanmallard
- Start date
Will your DLC, sitting on a disc, work with the version of Trainz you bought to run it if the world stopped turning tomorrow? You have both discs.*
KingConrail76
Active member
Maybe off the current Trainz of Thought, but I just can not wrap my head around the whole idea and theory that N3V is willing to risk losing 20,000 current users/buyers just gain 10,000 "new" users/buyers.
I "get" that 10,000 NEW users IN ADDITION TO current users/buyers is always a good thing, and profitable, but it very much seems from some of the posts that I've read, that N3V is WILLING to alienate a large portion of it's current RETURN CUSTOMERS just to gain a handful of new ones.
-In business, a "returning customer" is a hundred times MORE LIKELY to spend more per purchase than a "New" customer.
-500,000 current users/buyers MINUS 20,000 alienated customers PLUS 10,000 "new" customers is STILL a NET LOSS of 10,000 users/buyers.
--Those 10,000 NEW customers will spend less per purchase than the exsisting 20,000.
Maybe "business" degrees in Australia are different than here in the USA ( I wouldn't actually think so), but it still makes NO financial sense to "Alienate" such a large number of users/buyers/RETURN CUSTOMERS, just because you THINK you can sell a few more less profitable items, ie "Upgraded" versions with "higher standards" that make all the old DLS content "Faulty".
--Keeping in mind, the wealth of "free" stuff on the DLS from PAST versions is what makes ANY PC version of Trainz so desirable.
N3V's current path for PC products is leading to a deep dark forest of regret, in my opinion.
-I have and use TS12 v.49922
-I did download ALL "SP1" related updates and Hot Fixes
-I DID try "SP1" update, on a completely fresh/clean install of TS12
-I DID have problems and issues that were so "bothersome" to correct, that within 24 hours, I wiped the "SP1" version from my hard drive.
--IF "SP1" had been implemented better, I may still be using it, and my opinion may have ended up 180 degrees from what it is now, but they didn't.
---Perhaps BEFORE rolling out "SP1" to the public, they should have fixed ALL the Built-in and older DLS content to meet the new "minimum standard", such as; adding thumbnails, and fixing the "single color" issues, but they did not, they fixed a few specific items that they "think" people use a lot, and even that was not fixed correctly.
I feel sorry for those that purchase TS12 after all the "SP1" stuff is bundled up in the initial install, and are unable to "un-do" or roll back to 49922, as they will be left in the cold, and probably "turned off" to Trainz, reducing GREATLY the chance they'll buy a SECOND product.
--MOST "Casual Users" will NOT take the time to "fix" broken/faulty Content, they will simply move on to something that "works" right out of the box, so to speak.
-N3V really needs to re-examine their standing and loyalty to their CORE BASE and the "Returning Customer", no matter how few of us are actually "vocal" about it.
NO "In-Game Downloads" Thank you very much, I want to have the Files on my Hard Drive, to install as, and when, I see fit.
I "get" that 10,000 NEW users IN ADDITION TO current users/buyers is always a good thing, and profitable, but it very much seems from some of the posts that I've read, that N3V is WILLING to alienate a large portion of it's current RETURN CUSTOMERS just to gain a handful of new ones.
-In business, a "returning customer" is a hundred times MORE LIKELY to spend more per purchase than a "New" customer.
-500,000 current users/buyers MINUS 20,000 alienated customers PLUS 10,000 "new" customers is STILL a NET LOSS of 10,000 users/buyers.
--Those 10,000 NEW customers will spend less per purchase than the exsisting 20,000.
Maybe "business" degrees in Australia are different than here in the USA ( I wouldn't actually think so), but it still makes NO financial sense to "Alienate" such a large number of users/buyers/RETURN CUSTOMERS, just because you THINK you can sell a few more less profitable items, ie "Upgraded" versions with "higher standards" that make all the old DLS content "Faulty".
--Keeping in mind, the wealth of "free" stuff on the DLS from PAST versions is what makes ANY PC version of Trainz so desirable.
N3V's current path for PC products is leading to a deep dark forest of regret, in my opinion.
-I have and use TS12 v.49922
-I did download ALL "SP1" related updates and Hot Fixes
-I DID try "SP1" update, on a completely fresh/clean install of TS12
-I DID have problems and issues that were so "bothersome" to correct, that within 24 hours, I wiped the "SP1" version from my hard drive.
--IF "SP1" had been implemented better, I may still be using it, and my opinion may have ended up 180 degrees from what it is now, but they didn't.
---Perhaps BEFORE rolling out "SP1" to the public, they should have fixed ALL the Built-in and older DLS content to meet the new "minimum standard", such as; adding thumbnails, and fixing the "single color" issues, but they did not, they fixed a few specific items that they "think" people use a lot, and even that was not fixed correctly.
I feel sorry for those that purchase TS12 after all the "SP1" stuff is bundled up in the initial install, and are unable to "un-do" or roll back to 49922, as they will be left in the cold, and probably "turned off" to Trainz, reducing GREATLY the chance they'll buy a SECOND product.
--MOST "Casual Users" will NOT take the time to "fix" broken/faulty Content, they will simply move on to something that "works" right out of the box, so to speak.
-N3V really needs to re-examine their standing and loyalty to their CORE BASE and the "Returning Customer", no matter how few of us are actually "vocal" about it.
NO "In-Game Downloads" Thank you very much, I want to have the Files on my Hard Drive, to install as, and when, I see fit.
If the world stopped turning tomorrow, Trainz, computers, property, etc. would be meaningless.
You scream and holler about DRM, the cloud and the general direction software is heading. You have two choices. Chase it down the hole for the latest and greatest or get off the ride. You keep buying in some perceived investment scheme for a computer game. I jumped off and let them have it without my investment.*
You are very vocal about N3V supporting you forever. Almost as vocal as you are about everyone buying the new version of this program because N3V can't be expected to support the older versions. You expect everyone yo use N3V and distribute through the DLS for your convenience. Now, the distribution methods change and you scream bloody murder over a piece of content still available to you, just in a form you now don't like.
No poop, sherlock: And I'm walking away with my dollars. Oh, wait, don't other people have a valid reason to "jump off" as you put it, or does that only apply to you?
Yeah, I expect to protect my investment. It's something smart people do. If I can't protect it, I walk, as I have done with Trainz, taking my future content with me (yeah, unlike you, I do actually give back, though I don't expect you to understand that, nor that it adds a level of of involvement, disappointment and unwillingness to support the platform.) So, I am no longer uploading to the DLS or anywhere else. Perhaps if you had paid a lick of attention, maybe checked the DLS, you'd have noticed that, or that I had mentioned that a few times.
If you want to continue to support the platform that you supposedly "jumped off" from, go right ahead. And if you want to host all your content (lol
Then walk. Better yet, run.*
Take your investment.*
You wanted N3V to have everything. They have it. Can you still access your DLC?
I bumped heads with you before. Your argument? Not giving N3V everything and buying new versions or FCTs to download it.
Enjoy your choo choo train investment. Your portfolio should shine.
Oh, fail to add up your time investment?*
Take your investment.*
You wanted N3V to have everything. They have it. Can you still access your DLC?
I bumped heads with you before. Your argument? Not giving N3V everything and buying new versions or FCTs to download it.
Enjoy your choo choo train investment. Your portfolio should shine.
Oh, fail to add up your time investment?*
Without SP1, yes. With SP1, no.
Hmm, gee, where did I say anything about giving N3V "everything"? Did I ever say you don't have the right to do anything?
Funny thing about rights, though...they're a two-way street. But that's probably beyond your capability to understand, based on this and prior conversations. In all fairness to you, that's a common attitude these days.
*P.S. Oh, I am thinking of my time investment! Very much so! All the more reason why I'm no longer investing in this little "choo choo train" investment, as you put it.
And that's something every user and content creator may wish to consider before ever purchasing another version or creating content going forward.
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*rolls eyes* Someone lock this thread before this gets out of hand. And RRSignal, stop the damn DRM flame wars. You're not gaining any friends by keeping on whining about this stuff. And it certainly doesn't impress me. Its damn childish the way you've been whining and hollering about DRM.
I really don't care to impress you. Sorry that you are so full of yourself that you think anyone has to or is trying to.
And, last time I checked, this thread isn't solely about DRM, not by a long shot, and lots of others have had their say about DRM and otherwise.
People may disagree with you in life, kid. Get used to it.
Well to clear that up, I'm actually not so "full of myself that I have to do this". I don't really care what people think about me, if they want to be friends then they'll look past all the stuff on the outside. I don't really care if you or anyone else disagrees with me either. So don't accuse me of being that way, because you don't know me hardly at all anyway and that's not the way I am in real life.
I only know what you post, which gives a lot away. A lot. Based on a prior conversation, you only recently got your first job, so odds are you really have little knowledge of the value of a dollar. Don't feel bad, most of us were that way at one time or another, even if we didn't realize it or won't admit it.
But, at the same time, you had better learn that some - well, most all people - aren't too cavalier about their investments. Remember your complaints about your feet hurting after working your first day, maybe a month or two back? Well, imagine working all that just to have the fruits of your labor going bye-bye. Would you be happy if the car you bought stopped running? Would you be happy if your cellphone stopped working? Difference is we're not talking about stuff breaking on it's own, but stopping working because it was designed to do so.
I'm smart enough to understand what all DRM is and everything, and also I understand what your saying here too. All I'm saying is this topic is enough of a thorn in people sides that seeing it discussed over and over again kinda irritates me. And depending on the situation regarding the cell phone/car, yes and no. And everyone has been through that first day on the job--so that was just normal to anyone. As for what you asked, depending on the situation yes and no. If my phone stopped working for no apparent reason, yeah I'd be pissed. If my car had a sensor on it to monitor the structural integrity of the engine block and I was driving down the highway when a piston rod or the crankshaft was about to break, then yeah I'd be happy it did cuz that would have avoided an accident. And as for this value of a dollar thing and protecting your investments-I do understand that, so quit effing mentioning it. You see this is why I hardly post anything anymore. I end up posting something and then regretting it. Think i'll go back to lurker mode, I don't need to be saying anything on the forums anymore.
That's your deal. The reason why it comes up is it's a big issue for a lot of people. Certainly, I'm more vocal, but I'm far from alone. And, this thread did a decent job showing it. As far as the larger topic, oddly enough, the folks who are happy with SP1 and the way things are going, argue that the people who are happy don't complain and those who are unhappy do not. That's as far from accurate as possible (albeit for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to the DRM.) I've been speaking to a great UK creator who is basically done with Trainz. People are getting fed up.
Ok, so you get it...
Non-sequitur. DRM isn't about monitoring product integrity, and, even if it was, there are way to do that without DRM.
Probably why I (and others) mention it is because you don't get it, and reply (with occasionally foul-mouthed retorts) that make that fact obvious. Like most people, based on your reply above, you "get it" only so far as it concerns you, but not others.
Amen to that. Let us keep such contraptions to mobile gaming, console gaming and Railworks only, please.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Putting aside the perceived rights and wrongs, I wonder if N3V after all the 'investment' they have put into the new DLC system are really going to backtrack?
Then just send me a pm and leave it off the forums if you want to talk about that. RRSignal, you left off a part of my previous post that gives the reason I try not to post much anymore, and its not because I'm lacking an understanding of the 'value of a dollar' issue. Here's the real reason I try and keep my posts to a minimum: "I don't post much anymore because I've stuck my foot in my mouth a few too many times and don't need to do that too many more times either."
Even mega corporations like Microsoft have been forced to backtrack after the Xbox One DRM fiasco. It remains to be seen what steps N3V will take.
jjanmarine3
Active member
perhaps then a poll from N3V ? - who is for and who is against the latest changes.
I guess it would be very important though to state clearly (summurise) what the objective/s is/are
I guess it would be very important though to state clearly (summurise) what the objective/s is/are
wheelsonfire
68 years - still learning
No wonder the world economy is in such a poor state when individuals consider that buying a game/simulator is an investment.
invest - to lay out (money or capital in an enterprise, esp. by buying shares) with the expectation of profit. (Collins English Dictionary)
The only ones making an investment are N3V and, if they get it wrong, then they will lose money. If they go under then we will lose out in the future development of the game/simulator, and access to all the wonderful content on the DLS. If that happened fairly soon I would not lose anything (apart from the DLS Content) - I have all my copies of Trainz and add-on packs backed up. The biggest loss would be access to a community which, for all its faults, shares a common love of railways and has a majority of helpful, sharing members.
We have to ask ourselves why N3V felt the need to change to the DLC system. I wonder how big the piracy problem is. I have certainly noticed a lot of posters in the forum recently without registration and the DLS appears to be getting slower and slower. (I have a FCT)
I accept that I have been lucky. I am running SP1 HF3 and have had no big problems. (No Murchison either!)
invest - to lay out (money or capital in an enterprise, esp. by buying shares) with the expectation of profit. (Collins English Dictionary)
The only ones making an investment are N3V and, if they get it wrong, then they will lose money. If they go under then we will lose out in the future development of the game/simulator, and access to all the wonderful content on the DLS. If that happened fairly soon I would not lose anything (apart from the DLS Content) - I have all my copies of Trainz and add-on packs backed up. The biggest loss would be access to a community which, for all its faults, shares a common love of railways and has a majority of helpful, sharing members.
We have to ask ourselves why N3V felt the need to change to the DLC system. I wonder how big the piracy problem is. I have certainly noticed a lot of posters in the forum recently without registration and the DLS appears to be getting slower and slower. (I have a FCT)
I accept that I have been lucky. I am running SP1 HF3 and have had no big problems. (No Murchison either!)
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