multiplayer woes

Nope.

64698438.jpg


That's what I got, still insists on reverting or unmodifying and updating or downgrading or whatever it is on launch. Is it possibly saving all that nonsense to a temp folder someplace, and deleting it all on exit?

I should mention I'm running Windows XP Media Edition SP3, so this ain't one of them screwy Windows 7/Vista UAC problems.
 
Hi Jim

The message can mean a few things.

1) There are updates available, you'll need to grab these. This will occur with a 'clean' install of TS12.

2) One or more of the items used by the session/map (or the session/map itself) have been modified in some way.

Or, if you are the original creator of the map/session, then you might have to 'delete' and then download the map from the DLS to ensure that you have an 'original' copy. This is to ensure everything is the same.

TS12 should re-download modified items if they are on the DLS.

3) As has been discussed, there are some cases where an asset will 'open for edit' on it's own. That said, under TS2009+, I've only seen the issue with enginespecs opening reported (I've only noticed this with the RailDriver installed).


Now, a few things. First, after downloading, check there are no items open for edit. If there are, select them all, then press 'CTRL' + 'R'. This 'reverts' the items to their form before they were opened for edit. Do not commit them manually, as this will cause Trainz to mark them as modified.

Next, try setting the 'When launching Trainz:' setting to not automatically commit. As if it commits items this way, they will also be marked as modified.
 
All the people who claim TS12 has improved performance are deluding themselves, it's the same as TS2010 native mode when you're not comparing apples to oranges.

Woah now hang on a sec. Having developed the Mojave sub in ts2010 and seeing the results in TS12 I can say that you are mistaken in that claim. Not only could we see more of our scenery, but the operational performance at least doubled. I call seeing 3 times the depth of the scene and an increase in fps overall improved performance.

Again not trying to be a cheerleader, but from a development view the changes and performance increases are very noticeable.
 
Better watch out aardvark, scuzzy has his own BLOG and he might use it on YOU! :eek:

Don't go writing checks that you don't have the capital to cash.

Now unlike 99% here I won't go crying to mods, but you first call anyone who gets tired of your constant bellyaching "cheerleader weenies" then go on to make a derogatory spelling of my username while making wild accusations about my site (once again).

Well snippy sounds to me that your just miffed and a bit jealous that

1. I have my own site

2. I do and create more everyday than you ever have and NEVER have an issue (not to mention the multitude of issues) that you have with various trainz versions.

3. If I do have an issue I solve it using proper channels and not just bellyache day after day on a public forum blaming only the software and never looking inward.

My original suggestion still stands, if you feel that TS12 is so "unfinished" you should remove it and wait till it is "finished" in your mind. Being a chronic complainer and going above and beyond to disparage the software while relaying your issue seems to be the only way you know how to communicate and that shows a lack of proper upbringing always blaming others for what most of the time is a self inflicted issue.
 
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3) As has been discussed, there are some cases where an asset will 'open for edit' on it's own.

For the record, the game itself never does this. If you're having such a problem, you should be looking at third-party software (raildriver or otherwise.)

chris
 
I dunno Justin, on my system comparing same routes, same locations, same trains, same camera angles, same quality settings I get zero difference in FPS between TS2010 native mode and TS12. And I think if the developers had actually changed the graphics engine for TS12 one of them would have corrected me by now. I could be wrong, I often am, possibly they did some tweaks that are only observable on high end systems like your Alienware (wanna trade systems so I can find out? :hehe: ).

Zec, lessee;

1) There are updates available, you'll need to grab these. This will occur with a 'clean' install of TS12.

Tried that, of the 280 some odd updates available in the list, none are dependencies of the route or session. I will try downloading them all tonight, the first attempt I got a bunch of faulty Russian updates for some reason.

2) One or more of the items used by the session/map (or the session/map itself) have been modified in some way.

Wasn't me, I never touched any of the assets with the green triangles in the above list, and if they're "locally modified" wuffo they won't revert? Cripes, when I delete them and download them again they get the green triangle as soon as the download helper installs them, so it can't be anything I'm doing.

Or, if you are the original creator of the map/session, then you might have to 'delete' and then download the map from the DLS to ensure that you have an 'original' copy. This is to ensure everything is the same.

Exactly what I did, started with a copy that had nothing in it except built in assets, then downloaded my route and the multiplayer session into that. Took about 2 hours, grand total for route and session was 312 megs of downloads. None of my content is in the "locally modified" list, or the "needs an updated version" list, see this;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=856091&postcount=15

for the list of everything that gets a green triangle every time I delete and redownload it.

TS12 should re-download modified items if they are on the DLS.

That's the problem, when I launch the session it does all that, but the next time it does it again, and the next time and the next time ad infinitum. Somehow somewhere it's making all the changes it considers vital to national security long enough to run the session, then erasing everything when I exit the session so it has to do it all over again. I noticed that with Phil Skene's Downtown Traction multiplayer, but that's not as big of a PITA because it's only two files that it repeatedly fixes.

Somehow somewhere there's some kind of cache that's not clearing or files reloading from somewhere after the multiplayer session launcher does its thing, because by all that's holy it should only have to fix it once, so the next time you run the same session there's nothing to fix.
 
I think if the developers had actually changed the graphics engine for TS12 one of them would have corrected me by now. I could be wrong, I often am

You're wrong. Happy now? :)

TS12 isn't a massive restructure like TS2009 was, but it still has numerous tweaks and improvements over TS2010. It's not simply a case of us slapping some new content in.

chris
 
That works. :wave: Sure doesn't perform any better than TS2010 on my system, so git crackin' on the tweaks for low end specs! :hehe:

Missed your other post, I'll install a new copy of TS2010 without Raildriver and do some destructive testing over the next couple weeks, see if it's even possible to duplicate the glitch without the raildriver software loading. If it IS raildriver it's time to light a fire under them, Amber promised me last October they were working on a solution for the steam loco specs, and supposedly a new macroworks interface that would improve operations for all train simulators was coming out "early next year".

Any guesses on why this thing has to repeat the same fixes over and over? Don't need to download my route and session to check it out, try Downtown Traction multiplayer, I can duplicate the same problem with the two files every time in that one too.
 
Okay, let's walk thru this, since it's user error tell me what I'm doing wrong.

94128759.jpg


That could be a clue, somehow have to find out how to make this little culprit fix the "local modifications" permanently.

77049059.jpg


First in the list is the Spadina Ave Bridge, which I have never ever ever opened for edit since I never had any reason to. AFIAK I never opened any of the others either.

50109044.jpg


Off and running after several minutes of downloading. After the session starts, wait a couple minutes, then exit the session - this time I do NOTHING ELSE, don't even exit back to the routes menu, just click the Drive Session button again - and it repeats the entire process. :'(

Okay, so exit game, open CM 3.6, change the settings;

19597811.jpg


No more autocommit. Find Spadina Ave Bridge and delete it, click the X to exit content mangler, open task manager;

48213450.jpg


Wait until the Daemon is exorcised before starting CM 3.6 again.

53678835.jpg


There she be, ready for download, checking asset versions this is the only version, so right click and download;

82534515.jpg


And there she be, freshly installed 2 seconds ago, fastest local modification in history.

So what am I doing wrong here?
 
The Green triangle means you either installed it from the 3rd-party site or you've modified it, so it's not the system, it's user programming

Jamie
 
Sniper,

A quick check by me:

WIN 7 64 bit

1nstal 1 - TS12 + raildriver HW and SW - espec open

Instal 2 - TS12 + raildriver SW only - espec open

Instal 3 - TS12 only minimum config no raildriver - no espec open

Instal 4 - TS2010 SP4 + raildriver HW and SW - no espec open

XP SP3

Instal 5 - TS2010 SP4 + raildriver SW only - espec open

I've actually used the same raildriver software version on all of these.
 
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Sniper,
Just downloaded and ran your MP map and session and had no problems ran without a hitch.:)

Now just need more people to download it to get a session going.
 
Just downloaded and ran your MP map and session and had no problems ran without a hitch.

What build number, what operating system? Can't see why that would make a difference, Win7 and Vista are the ones with all the UAC mysteries with making automatic hidden changes to files, and I have XP which don't have UAC.

Green triangle means you either installed it from the 3rd-party site or you've modified it

3rd party doesn't apply here, these are all on the DLS, and I never modified anything, my son don't mess with my computer since he has his own, and I doubt the cat could have modified anything without me knowing about it in the 2 seconds between downloading and seeing the green triangle.

Let's focus on one file, nobody else is getting this with the Spadina Ave Bridge? Delete, clear cache, shut the system down to cold iron and restart, download, it's locally modified.

Trying something completely different now, since clearing the cache\internet folder and redownloading doesn't work, EDR didn't work, I'm now installing a fresh copy of TS12 in an alternate folder, see if that works. If there's something wrong with the copy that I'm getting this on I can't figure it out, and all the built in tests aren't showing anything either.

Now just need more people to download it to get a session going.

MIA stuff that needs to be downloaded since it don't show up in the dependencies;


40ft Stockcar Union Pacific 48155D Ant,<kuid2:56063:104500:1>
50ft up flatcar,<kuid:58422:100244>

grayballast,<kuid:522774:100376>

Dunno why the ground texture isn't in the list, the two freight cars aren't because they're in an AI consist spawning from a portal and don't have actual physical copies on the route. I'll fix all that for the KUID2 version, assuming that having AI in multiplayer actually works, I've heard a bunch of conflicting stories on that. I have confirmed that out of the box the host will see the commuter trains spawning from the downtown portal every 20 minutes, and the freight train (A) will not spawn from the Proviso portal if those TS2010 freight cars are not installed, (B) will spawn every 20 minutes if they are installed.

Remaining unanswered questions, will joiners be able to see AI trains? One thread says no, they're invisible except to the host. Second question, assuming AI traffic is visible to all players and not just the host, what kind of framerate hit or connection speed lag will we get with 4-8 players and a dozen AI trains scurrying around? Get all the bugs squashed and 4-8 people together at the same time, we'll find out one way or the other.
 
QUANG!

Installed and patched new TS12, currently downloading route and session. Usual glitches with "incorrect username and password" on first and second launch of content mangler - if it doesn't know who I am and wants to run in offline mode, how does it know I'm Author #522774 when I click the My Content tab? :hehe: After rebooting and restarting it a few times got that kickstarted, so then I get My Content on the DLS with all the latest uploads not in the list. Select version 1 of the route, view asset versions, and that shows 1, 1.1, and 1.2, somehow doing that and changing tabs and setting date installed to 8/30, 8/31, and 9/1 kickstarted the search 'bot so all the new stuff including the multiplayer session were listed. Downloading route and session now, gonna be a couple more hours before I find out if the new install has the same problem. Got to wondering if this is a factor;

71894597.jpg


QUANG! Hit the top, 100% CPU usage! :cool: As you can see by the spikes it varies from 2% to 100% depending on when it's downloading or installing, wondering now if the CPU load could have anything to do with the original gripe.
 
Nope.

Brand new fresh clean virgin install ain't the answer either, don't even need to wait for it to finish since I click on the Today tab and get this;

10576912.jpg


While it's downloading, something somewhere is locally modifying these files, or at least applying the locally modified triangle to them. AT&T/Yahoo DSL internet connection if that's a factor.
 
Tumbleweed

Well, as expected same results, same reverting locally modified stuff and downloading missing or obsolete assets on the new install. Scathingly brilliant idea #243, this bot appears to be downloading from the DLS to overwrite what's already installed but "locally modified", then restoring the locally modified files from a backup - what happens if there are no locally modified files to restore? So set filter for locally modified = true, select all delete all. Now the route and session both show missing dependencies, let the bot sort that out by downloading the official consecrated sanctified files that it approves of from whatever magic secret server it uses, that way the changes will be permanent! :cool: Tried that, different because it skipped the need to revert changed screen went right to missing dependencies and downloaded them. Ran the session for about 30 minutes, exited game, fired up task manager to wait for TADDaemon to quit, fired up content mangler;

98486640.jpg


Same list, locally modified. Question, were they locally modified while the game was running, or does the bot have some temp folder it installs the special approved (no artificial sweeteners or preservatives) versions of these files into before launching?

An aside here;

56695415.jpg


No Raildriver software installed in this version, whatever opened these for edit it was not the Raildriver interface.
 
Alrighty then!

Backsteinhaus1,<kuid:68787:22116>
Backsteinhaus2,<kuid:68787:22117>
Backsteinhaus3,<kuid:68787:22118>
Bahnhof Freital,<kuid2:151900:100253:1>
Barleyfactory,<kuid2:151900:100037:1>
Betonbridge 2 tracks,<kuid2:151900:100290:1>
Boarding House 2story,<kuid2:77573:24171:1>
Bridge-Supp-Gider-01,<kuid:82412:71031>
Bridge-Supp-Gider-04,<kuid:82412:71036>
Building Tower 3,<kuid:-1:100445>
Cab QuietEngineSound,<kuid:60349:53001>
C-41 Driver,<kuid:43955:50048>
C-41 Pilot,<kuid:43955:50049>
C-41 Steam,<kuid:43955:53004>
C-41 Tender Truck,<kuid:43955:50050>
Dummy Truck,<kuid:43955:50017>
ET-Platte4,<kuid:68787:1311>
ET-Platte5,<kuid:68787:1312>
ET-Platte6,<kuid:68787:1313>
Green coke HP,<kuid:46162:60003>
HP Track Tunnel,<kuid:46162:1125>
HP Xing lights 1t no traffic,<kuid:46162:1231>
K-27 Whistle,<kuid:43955:54003>
Locomotive Sand,<kuid2:86105:60601:1>
Maple-Beech-Birch 200m-wide Cover spline,<kuid2:33404:500902:3>
No Cloud 01,<kuid:523:110014>
Scott Street Tower,<kuid2:87145:28006:1>
Signal Rail End USA,<kuid:-1:110007>
Signal USA 05,<kuid:-12:214>
Station Metro,<kuid:-1:100502>
Station Union,<kuid:-12:314>
S-Town-Building-1025,<kuid2:82412:6001425:1>
Through Plate Girder 3 Span Bridge 2 Track,<kuid:61119:23190>
Tside Cover station,<kuid:-1:101150>
Tside Switchtower LPC,<kuid:44797:28017>
Tside Watertower NYC,<kuid:44797:28001>

Anyone who is saying this is on my end bother to download any of these files to try to duplicate the gripe? Anybody notice what all these files have in common?
 
Sniper

Just dl/d no missing or broken assets - Well Done!!!

Ran the session - got the modified asset warning. I let it do its thing and the session started up.

My views:

1) Starting out I was in mapview to get my bearings and saw that there are a lot of consists showing red.

2) Running around checking things out I kept seeing messages about consists derailing, clicked on the link to view but nothing showed on the track or in mapview. Also went into quickdrive to delete derailed consists and nothing showed. Kinda strange...

3) A custom HUD would sure be helpful. As would a track map - I got lost numerous times while on tripple and quad track segments and ended up reversing to switch onto the correct track. The AI was having hissy fits because me.

Overall: Nicely done route, and the session seems to work without a hitch, saw alot of AI Trains doing their thing. Had to wait on a few before I could proceed, but that is part of rail operations. It appears that at least 2 or more dispatchers would be required to handle the traffic and get everyone to there destination. Especially with max # of players.

Cheers
Steve
 
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