MSTS2 or TRAINZ 2010?

[wholbr]

Hi Smiley And Everybody.
Ah to hell with normal service and the topic. The pictures of the Amstrad magazines really takes me back as I used to buy them. If you've still got them Smiley they could be worth a few bob now.

I have very fond memories of my Dragon 32 and Amstrad 128. As stated the Dragon was made in South Wales, but the company unfortunately went bankrupt after about 18 months of trading. I think there was a Dragon Magazine which informed all Dragon users about the demise of the company but also advised that a rescue plan to very quickly bring the company and machine back to life was being put into place. This was a huge morale booster to all us Dragon users faced with the prospect of having to buy another what where very expensive machines in those days.

Perhaps Smiley living in Wales can tell me if the rest of this story is true. The Dragon never came back to life, and for us dedicated users it was a slow and agonizing death. Rumor had it that while the rescue package was being arranged a disgruntled employee who had not received some of his pay when the company went under took matters into his own hands and burnt the factory down.

If the above is true, how could he have done such a thing? Does he not realize the misery and expense he caused all us Dragon users. If he is alive today he should be hunted down and brought to the most severe justice.

However, after a period of morning I went out and purchased my Amstrad 128. As stated in an earlier posting this this led to the end of my self-taught basic programming period as the machine was soon taken over by my three daughters to do their homework on.

It's funny that anyone who owned one of those early machines always remembers them and the way that they became attached to them. I have bought many PCs since those early days but those two machines I always will remember with great fondness.

Well perhaps we can now get back on topic (what was the topic anyway)

Bill:hehe:

 

[NikkiA]

If the above is true, how could he have done such a thing?

Maybe they took his stapler ?

 

[Vern]

(what was the topic anyway)

The eternal battle between good and evil, i.e. TRS vs Railworks which the OP misinterpreted as being MSTS2!

 

[marlonza]

Tried em.
Trainz wins content and fun wise, and the realism ain't that bad. If you dont crash, the theory works
But Trainz wins hands down for me, 2010 that is.

 

[JCitron]

Oh! Bill don't get me started on these things.

The first Speach to text I had was one made by Phillips, It went somthing like this.

"Mary add a little land at fleas was wheat as no" ..........(Delete,delete. delete.delete,delete,delete.)

I remember those systems too. LOL.

My uncle worked with Kurzweil for the opposite - going from printed word to speech. This system could take any book and read it. It's quite amazing what good things can be done with technology. Trainz is one of them, I think.

@Bill - I agree this is one of the more enjoyable threads on the forums.

The old hardware was great to work with. As a lead technician, I became responsible for the complete Ontel product line. They were some of the early innovators for computer systems, and made what were considered "intelligent" terminals. These terminals came with hard drives, floppy disk drives (8" and 5-1/4"), and various plug-in cards to customize the systems for what they needed. ControlData purchased a huge number of the Ontel OP-1/64 terminals and used them instead of their own. They liked the quality of the Ontel terminals over the ones made by their own company!

What was quite amazing was the discrete logic chips. On the I/O Microprocessor, which was quite a large board, there were rows upon rows of parallel shift registers. These were used to move data around an in and out of the system. Today this is done inside the microprocessor. Back then the processors were 8080s and 8085s.

They also made a Word Mover-Controller. This board was used to move bytes of data around for word processing functions such as cutting and pasting text. This too was sets of shift registers along with with some static memory to help act as a buffer system. It's hard to believe that today we do this with software, and cutting and pasting is part of the operating system. Back then the OS was Ontel-OS, or whatever mainframe the terminals were connected to.

John

 

[Reddog785]

There isn't an MSTS2, but, if there was, it would just be Kuju doing what they did with Rail Simulator; use it to say "Look! We have the ability to make super realistic models and you don't! We've decided thart in order for you to look at our modelling skills, we'll remove any decent route-building tools, bonus content and anti-lag scripts, so you'll only have good graphics to thank us for!" as Microsft and Kuju don't care about gameplay, they only want to flash off their modelling skills and have the newest of computers struggle to play it. I'd go for TS2010. Quite good graphics on there, too.

 

[Alco_P-A]

Maybe some day MSTS2 will come to pass,but for now it's Trainz & Railworks. I like RW for the DETAILED steam locomotives and sound. As far as the rest of the game goes there's no match. Trainz wins. Trying to built a route in RW is a challenge to say the least. I don't know if I would buy another RW beyond my 2009 edition. I'm looking forward to another Trainz version though. I like 2004 & 2010 the best. I'm running 2010 now and i'm happy with it. Whatever train simulator you choose,just enjoy it and have fun.
Alco_P-A
www.bigboytrainsandhobbies.com

 

[Boobless_ed]

Try checking the RW wiki. Covers so much to simplify things as well as techniques we should use for TRS. RW ain't that hard if you can be bothered reading. With Trainz yo can just jump in without a single page of writing, but the results for RW seem much better and more logical.

 

[Vern]

Single hardest part of route building in RW is terrain painting. There's only a few textures with large variations and very hard to blend subtlely. Once your route is set up you cannot add additional terrain textures and even getting these in at the blueprint stage has defied the majority of builders. In addition there's no copy and paste like Surveyor offers so every sq km of terrain has to be hand painted individually. No wonder most routes released are only 15 - 20 miles in length!

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.

RW ain't that hard if you can be bothered reading. With Trainz yo can just jump in without a single page of writing

That is the key to it for me, it's what gives Trainz the undoubted edge. As I found anyone can install Trainz and start laying their own route within a few minutes. Curves and switches can be mastered easily without having to read reams of pdf downloads just to build a one or two frame circular route with a sliding.

I also found that tunnels and gradients also came easily once I had grasped the general logic of route building. It may be true that Railworks can look better graphically (I would not know as I do not own Railworks). But surely for any new first-time purchaser of Trainz, ease of use straight from the box has to be a huge boost to enjoying the program when creating your own content and therefore continued interest in train simulation especially this simulator.

What is the point of having great graphics (if indeed that is what Railworks have) when new customers find it is extremely difficult to create anything yourself and therefore lose interest.

As stated by several members, I have found that this has been a very enjoyable thread with some great humor. It does seem to me that the forum is more settled with hopefully some deep arguments now behind the community. I for one find 2010 a great simulator with hopefully more to come. I also find this forum has again become a respectful and pleasant place to be in.

Bill

 

[sparky15]

I have to agree with Vern on the Terrain. I have RS.

Track laying, though, is a snap once you get the hang of it. Some excellent tools, some of which I wish Trainz would adopt. I like being able to lay more than one track at a time, decent curves without templates, proper junctions and the cross over tool. Right up until the split a weld tools that will aggravate you to no end.

The absolute worse is just setting up a new route blue print to begin with. Another KUJU carry over from MSTS way of thinking.

Trainz is much easier. I do find it funny how the other sim users pass on it because the dependency system drove them mad.

Nothing wrong with having more than one sim. When interest in one fades, I just switch to another for a while. Keeps things fresh. I got route burn out in Trainz, so switched to MSTS for a bit. When I come back, Trainz will seem new again.

Dave.......

 

[NikkiA]

Track laying, though, is a snap once you get the hang of it. Some excellent tools, some of which I wish Trainz would adopt. I like being able to lay more than one track at a time, decent curves without templates, proper junctions and the cross over tool. Right up until the split a weld tools that will aggravate you to no end.

That's the part that always annoys the life out of me, I've only once (among dozens of attempts) managed to get a junction to form properly.

As a real kick in the teeth, that one time I managed it, when I saved and came back into the editor, all the track was gone. RW's Surveyor is just plain awful, IME.

 

[Boobless_ed]

Try checking the RW wiki. Covers so much to simplify things as well as techniques we should use for TRS.

This was probably what I should have focussed that post on

 

[sparky15]

That's the part that always annoys the life out of me, I've only once (among dozens of attempts) managed to get a junction to form properly.

As a real kick in the teeth, that one time I managed it, when I saved and came back into the editor, all the track was gone. RW's Surveyor is just plain awful, IME.

Never had track disappear. Did have it throw track work out of whack for a mile or two in either direction. Best to avoid it at all cost and just relay a whole section instead of trying to "fix" it. Much simpler and easier on the nerves.

Quirky at best.

Dave.......

 

[NikkiA]

Never had track disappear. Did have it throw track work out of whack for a mile or two in either direction. Best to avoid it at all cost and just relay a whole section instead of trying to "fix" it. Much simpler and easier on the nerves.

Quirky at best.

Dave.......

I hate to imagine the hit to the sanity that someone like Shane must have taken putting W&B together, or Jim and Otto with Port Ogden & Chicago... They must be completely bald and look about 200 years older than they are, after persevering for that long with the editor

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
Ah the arguments and battles start again. As one posting puts it

The eternal battle between good and evil, i.e. TRS vs Railworks which the OP misinterpreted as being MSTS2!

Or as I see it and as one very famous Britain would have undoubtedly put it:-
The Battle of 2004 is over. The Battle of 2010 is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of sensible train simulation. Upon it depends Auran, Trainz, and this community.

The whole fury and might of OpenRails, Bve, Railworks and others must very soon be turned on us. For they know that they will have to break us in this Island or lose the competitive war. If we can stand up to them, all Train simmers may be free and the life of the simulator world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States and Australia along with all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Simulator Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the light of perverted programming and sales.

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our route and content making, and so bear ourselves that, if Auran and its simulator lasts for a thousand years, Mankind will still say, THIS was their finest hour.

Winston Spencer Churchill, May 1940
Slightly Edited By WJH, in June 2010. (well I am quite sure he would have some said something like that to us if he was still around)


Bill:hehe:
please don't close the thread Mr. Fox

 

[sparky15]

Wholbr,
That was good.
I don't think anyone's pitting one against the other. I kind of like discussing the different sims available. Any one has some strengths and weaknesses over the other.

I have had all three for quite some time and have been taking some time to really learn each of them beyond try it for a week and move on now that I have more time to devote. Just dabbled in each before.

So far I like Trainz the best for building. MSTS for actual train running. RS is neither here nor there. I built a serious route in RS and Trainz and now going to give MSTS a run. Now that will be self induced psychosis at it's finest. Only way to learn though.

I'm not a heavy gamer and about all I have loaded are train sims and Falcon 4.0. With three available it only makes sense to try them all. I do have a preference but I'll never limit myself to just one. Maybe even give an idea or two for the next release.

Dave......

 

[sparky15]

I hate to imagine the hit to the sanity that someone like Shane must have taken putting W&B together, or Jim and Otto with Port Ogden & Chicago... They must be completely bald and look about 200 years older than they are, after persevering for that long with the editor

If you keep up with RW, it's still driving poor Otto nuts. In his eighties and says it helps keep his mind going. A lot of respect for that guy.

Dave......

 

[meatloaf747]

Hi Everybody.
Ah the arguments and battles start again. As one posting puts it. - Or as I see it and as one very famous Britain would have undoubtedly put it:-

The Battle of 2004 is over. The Battle of 2010 is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of sensible train simulation. Upon it depends Auran, Trainz, and this community.
The whole fury and might of OpenRails, Bve, Railworks and others must very soon be turned on us. For they know that they will have to break us in this Island or lose the competitive war. If we can stand up to them, all Train simmers may be free and the life of the simulator world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States and Australia along with all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Simulator Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the light of perverted programming and sales.
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our route and content making, and so bear ourselves that, if Auran and its simulator lasts for a thousand years, Mankind will still say, THIS was their finest hour. --- Winston Spencer Churchill, May 1940
Slightly Edited By WJH, in June 2010. (well I am quite sure he would have some said something like that to us if he was still around) Bill:hehe:


Bill, You have my vote to become the next Prime Minister... :hehe:
Cheers, Mac...

 

[RRSignal]

Hi Everybody.
Ah the arguments and battles start again. As one posting puts it


Or as I see it and as one very famous Britain would have undoubtedly put it:-
The Battle of 2004 is over. The Battle of 2010 is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of sensible train simulation. Upon it depends Auran, Trainz, and this community.

The whole fury and might of OpenRails, Bve, Railworks and others must very soon be turned on us. For they know that they will have to break us in this Island or lose the competitive war. If we can stand up to them, all Train simmers may be free and the life of the simulator world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States and Australia along with all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Simulator Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the light of perverted programming and sales.

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our route and content making, and so bear ourselves that, if Auran and its simulator lasts for a thousand years, Mankind will still say, THIS was their finest hour.

Winston Spencer Churchill, May 1940
Slightly Edited By WJH, in June 2010. (well I am quite sure he would have some said something like that to us if he was still around)


Bill:hehe:

Lol, that was a good one!