MSTS2 or TRAINZ 2010?

[drrt4]

im planning to buy a new train sim...i went looking and found 2 games that look good....MSTS2 and TRS2010 witch shuid i get?

i am looking for:
good game play
good detail
low running specs
and user friendly for making routs and loco content ect.
and plenty of locos to use!

thanks for reading and hope you can suggest something...:wave:

 

[steve123]

hi,
I dont meant to sound harsh but ,ARE YOU FOR REAL ,you are on a trainz web site what do you think we would say without question ,of coarse trainz 2010 you cant go wrong.It has all you need plus some.
steve

 

[gfisher]

There is no MSTS2, it was canceled....twice.

 

[UnionPacificRules]

........I played MSTS, and it WAS WAYYY more realistic, but what's the point if it ain't FUN?????


Note: Buy MSTS 2 and make some good crash vids.......
Note: Buy 2010 and enjoy life........

Your pick....

 

[martinvk]

hi,
I dont meant to sound harsh but ,ARE YOU FOR REAL ,you are on a trainz web site what do you think we would say without question ,of coarse trainz 2010 you cant go wrong.It has all you need plus some.
steve

Now, now, it only took him 302 posts to decide to ask the question.

and user friendly for making routs and loco content ect.

That pretty much rules out MSTS but then we already knew that didn't we?

 

[RRSignal]

I'll admit that the original MSTS has some realism that even Trainz almost a decade later hasn't been able to do (doppler sound effects, cab signals, etc.) but Trainz has a lot more content for it.

As another poster pointed out, there is no MSTS2. The company that originally developed MSTS and did some work towards MSTS2, but came up with their own sim, RailWorks, which is supposedly MSTS-compatible.

 

[obo]

The company that originally developed MSTS and did some work towards MSTS2, but came up with their own sim, RailWorks, which is supposedly MSTS-compatible.

Side point, but RailWorks is not MSTS-compatible. It's a completely different platform.

Regards,

Rob.

 

[davesnow]

.... and Railworks "Surveyor" is a terror to try and work with.

Yes, IMHO, Trainz is still the absolute best Rail Simulator on the market. TS2010 is okay in my book. I haven't discovered any problems with it so far.

 

[NikkiA]

As another poster pointed out, there is no MSTS2. The company that originally developed MSTS and did some work towards MSTS2, but came up with their own sim, RailWorks, which is supposedly MSTS-compatible.

Kuju went from MSTS to RailSimulator. RailWorks is a repackaging of RailSimulator with a few (and I mean, very very few) bug fixes by the new owners of the code (A company that was formed to produce payware locos for RailSimulator called 'Rail Simulator Developments LTD' - aka RSDL).

Neither RailSimulator nor Railworks are 'MSTS Compatible' per se, although they do use some of the MSTS tools for content creation, and the keymappings are similar.

Kuju were working on the first MSTS2 (and pretty much completed it, by all accounts), before leaving MS to work with EA on 'RailSimulator', so in some aspects RailSimulator is likely very similar to what the first MSTS2 would have been like, although the Kuju MSTS2 was an expansion of the original MSTS 3d engine, rather than a rewrite.

The second MSTS2 is the one that many run into on the net, as the videos on YouTube and the MSTS2 website still exist. This had NO input from Kuju at all, and was developed by MS's 'Aces' department - who were also responsible for MS Flight Simulator. When MS axes Aces last year, any hope of MSTS2 finally died.

However... Aces Studio decided to go it alone, and may well be working on their own train simulator, they are now 'Cascade Game Foundry', and their press release when they created the new company also announced that their first product would be 'The light at the end of the tunnel - a new simulation project', which rather heavily hints at a train sim. That said, they also said 'keep posted for news in the next few weeks', this was over 6 months ago.

 

[stovepipe]

I'll admit that the original MSTS has some realism that even Trainz almost a decade later hasn't been able to do (doppler sound effects, cab signals, etc.) but Trainz has a lot more content for it.

Likewise Trainz does quite a few things MSTS doesn't. There is a lot of content for both. MSTS is ok for driving, though it's hard to play an activity more than a couple of times before boredom sets in.

The main downside for me is being stuck with your Train, and not being able to interact with anything, or to fly off and do something else. It's all just a bit too sterile and samey. Railworks is little better in this respect I find.

 

[NikkiA]

.... and Railworks "Surveyor" is a terror to try and work with.

Yes, IMHO, Trainz is still the absolute best Rail Simulator on the market. TS2010 is okay in my book. I haven't discovered any problems with it so far.

If only Auran would fix the driving portion Trainz is overall the best, but it's driving experience is still far behind MSTS or RW, even though both are far behind trainz in content.

Most of this is down to the map being near useless for navigation (no indication of current route path), the lack of a built-in track view (the 'TrackView Rule' goes a long way to remedy this, but isn't perfect and often breaks on dual-cab locomotives, which most of the world use heavily), and the poor choice of views (although trainz can support better internal cab views, so few trains have quality cab views, and railworks has much better external views), lack of a quality 'dispatcher' (RW's dispatcher is absolutely awful, but it's still more than trainz has), and trainz's terrible brake controls.

It wouldn't take much for Auran to blow RW out of the water in driving experience, if only they'd try. If they did this, then I predict that RSDL don't have the necessary developer support (1st party code, 1st party content and 3rd party content) to even hope to catch up.

 

[rjhowie]

One man's meat is another man's poison as the old saying goes. However I started with MS then found that to build a route an average non-techy Joe like me had no chance plus what I seen on scenery wasn't impressive. I am no expert now but I am glad I accidentally came across Trainz04 years ago. Now even I (!) can build routes have attractive scenery, etc. You can hop from one train to another, programme them, etc and so on

Frankly for the average person that I epitomise, MTS has no comparison even if we throw in the reality bit. The whole concept of Trainz is sheer, addictive fun and surely a hobby should be a pleasure without being a nightmare to build? The Surveyor idea is great as well as the DLS concept. Nope, for me it is Trainz for ease and satisfaction building routes I couldn't contemplate nor have the same scenery either in MTS wins hands down.

Yours on behalf of Mr Average

 

[drrt4]

boy was i mis-informed i thout MSTS2 was out..... boy im now regretting this topic....well im done i see TRS2010 is the way to go...well I'll see mabby rail works is the way to go...i don't know ill do some more research. you people can tinker with this topic some more if you like but this it the last post for me on this topic.

yours truly, the noob.:wave: (some times)

 

[Originalwelshborder]

Railworks has better graphics perhaps, but nothing like the amount of free third party content.
Trainz has always had it's quirks, in my view that's part of the challenge which is why I'm here after 5 years or so!

 

[RRSignal]

I'm not against owning more than one train simulator. I still play MSTS from time to time because it's the only sim with a good NEC route (and I'm trying to get the PPR Eastern region pack to work without derailing on normal track, with little success.) I've gotten probably thousands of hours of play out of it, for, what, maybe $50? That's 4 movie tickets and maybe a soda or two. $50 buys 2-3 tickets to an amateur sporting event, and not even one to a pro game. For the amount of enjoyment I got out of it, it's next to free. Same for TS2010 - $50 is a bargain considering the amount of enjoyment you get.

FYI, OpenBVE is a promising sim too. However, I do think Trainz is the closest to a "standard" there is at the moment. But Auran had better not rest on their laurels, because the game can change quickly, if they're not careful.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
I agree with RJHowie (Mr.Average) as I too consider myself Mr.Average. We all started with MSTS and then I thought I was moving better with Railsim but found that to be absolutely terrible. I could not even find a way to join two sections of rail together without getting buffer in between, I took it off of the computer within two weeks and the disc has been consigned to the desk drawer ever since.

After a period without a Train sim I came across Trainz 2004 and have not looked back since. I am now on 2010 and without doubt it is a brilliant simulator. It has its quirks now and again as any computer software program does, but as Howie states for Joe average it's the perfect hobby.

Even I can create routes with decent scenery, have my favorite consists running in A1 mode to their destinations, and jump from consists to consists taking the controls of my favorite engines. Trainz has given me a great hobby both creating and driving especially through the long British winter that we have just come out of.

So thank you Auran for the many hours of pleasure that you have given me and I'm sure many thousands of others. I haven't always agreed with everything you have done and have said so on these forums, but overall you turn out a pretty good performance in my view.

Bill

 

[JCitron]

I'm a former MSTS fellow myself. I couldn't wait for MSTS to come out. The prospects of building my own route, customized the built-in routes, and adding activities to the current ones appealed to me. Well the process to do this was far harder than they announced it to be. The program crashed every time I tried to edit anything. When I created an activity, the route manger crashed, and the AI (not real AI trains either) would really do stupid stuff like run switches, etc. Using the program became a real chore.

Around the same time as getting MSTS, I also got one of Auran's add-ons for it. I installed them and then looked at their website. Their own Trainz series was still in legacy stage with the modular design. I was reluctant to purchase it back then, but tried the demo. The demo would crash on my machine because I had an ATI8500. The card would brainfart and the program would black-screen on me.

Well after watching the development of Trainz from the early 1.0 days, I eventually purchased TRS2004. I remember the early days of TRS2004 and the really slow DLS. The forums too were more vibrant. There was little griping and the people were more helpful, and even slapped those around who really were there to gripe and nit-pick rather than be helpful to the community. What I'm saying here is the community was a lot of fun to be involved with. There were many really good people, and it was great seeing John and Greg pop into the forums often too.

Well as time went on, the forums changed, and so did the product. People asked for the great improvements we finally saw in TRS2004, which lead to TRS2006 with its faults. I worked with the Helpdesk on resolving some early typos and things that appeared in the early TRS2006 version, but of course could never get to them all since I was working full-time and working on a Bachelor's degree in IT at the same time.

Now many years later, I'm still here and using TS2010. I gave up on MSTS because of the difficulty and crashing. Microsoft's small patch did squat for the program as far as I could tell. With Auran and Trainz, I've seen this program grow and the support is still there.

Today TS2010 is still by far the best simulator out there. I've looked fleetingly at RailSim and its other relation, but stayed clear after remembering the frustrations I had with the original product. Trainz, like all software has its faults. The main thing to remember that nothing is perfect in this imperfect world, and living and dealing with the quirks and bugs in the program are part of using any software package.

John

 

[Grant_Mo_Miles]

Hey gents,

Nice place this forum is.

My take on Trainz vs MSTS or Railworks is that I like both Trainz and Rail Works, never played MSTS; but I read it's similar to RailWorks (RW).

I actually believe you can't really make a fair comparison of either three of these programs from what I have seen or played. I can't compare MSTS; but as far as Railworks vs Trainz each have good things about them. In RailWorks I get the feeling of driving something with weight and size in it and the way the locos and consist or modeled look "real" in the aspect as the convey weight and size in the way they are modeled. With that said while I like the trains and locos the world is sometimes dry to me and uneventful. And the scenarios are decent; but I have found the sounds the the world environment have and the train sounds just don't add up well. There is this lack of sound for the trains when you watch them go by on the tracks. They should not just have this rolling coasting sound everyso often interupted by a click clack of a truck rolling over some uneven portion of the track. After all most consist have old and creaking rolling stock on them that make all sorts of weird noises as they go by. But no screeching sounds, no other sounds to give the notion that you are driving something that weights 1000's of tons and nearly a mile or so long. Rail Works and I would assume MSTS since they use similar designing programs seems very hard to simply get a train on a track and script it to do anything other than go forward and out through a portal off the map. I am trying to make my own scenario with the SP Daylight 4449 and it is more difficult than I find it should be compared to Trainz 06. Good game with alot of little bugs too, such as the lights on the locos go on; but for me once you turn them off they never can be turned back on.

Trainz 2010 or 06 seems to have modeled their environment much smaller in the size of the models and skins for their world. While I think the game looks much more beautiful as you get closer to the rolling stock the skins or the cars start to dither and get pixelated while in RailWorks when you get in close you see the rivets of the locos and other detail. Not to bash Trainz. I love the DC control system and use it often and there is the immersion that it totally and completely makes you feel like you are in the train environment you are operating with. The sounds for the consist and world are breathtaking and full of life. The trains as you listen to them sound like they are rocking and rolling, clicking and clacking and squeeking over the tracks like they should be. Most trians were not well oiled rolling stock on some top notch rail system. At least in Louisiana where I am from the rolling stock and locos have this noisey atmosphere to them and trianz picks up on this fully as RailWorks seems lacking.

The driving experience in trainz is good; but sometimes the cab skins or incomplete; but that ok as there are alot of content from fans and I like that. Much better 3rd party content than in RW as in RW you have to buy almost everything you see in the 3rd party sites; not so with Trianz. There are some very nice quality models for free use and even their buy to try locos from various people are awesome to see and use when you can get them. My only question about trainz is why do some of the cars simply not stop at the crossing gates and drive right through them and the train crossing the gate. Biggest thing in some of the scenario's that take away from the game. But hey, all programs have bugs..

Trainz route builder and track designing is pretty much straight forward and nice. The ability to build narrow gauge and other non standard track is also a great addition. Something Rail Works seems to have forgotten completely. Adding waybills and getting the model rail road to look and feel alive is easy, even though the human models don't move as far as I've seen. And even the lego like engineers in some of the older locos is kind of humorously romantic.

My take is that all three have some great features as well as some setbacks. And I will be playing both Rail Works and Trainz for some time to come.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
Great post you've written there John especially regarding this forum. I have not been around Trainz as long as you have as I initially picked up a cheap copy of 2004 when 2006 had just come onto the market. However, Trainz 2004 was like a breath of fresh air to me after Railsim so I quickly bought 2006 and then TC3 which became my firm favorite and remained so even after I bought Trainz 2009.

I was given TRS 2010 as a present last Christmas. From the moment I gave it its first trial run I felt it was streets ahead of anything else out there including all the previous versions of Trainz. The A1 trains run far more realistically than previous and this combined with the better graphics and use of layers creates an addictive hobby which anyone can enjoy at a very reasonable price.

My experience in the above I believe adds weight to your argument John regarding being prepared to move forward and overcome the bugs and glitches that affect any software program so that further even better Trainz programs will be brought out in the future. I dream and visualize of a 3-D version of our hobby which would incorporate some brilliant trackside camera action showing our favorite steamers careering toward you in true three dimension. (I believe that this may not be too far away)

However, as stated there seem to be many on the forum which hanker after the past and wish only to stay with what they feel they know and are comfortable with. I have great respect for their strongly held views and can understand their reluctance to move forward. But move forward we must, for if Auran and Trainz were to stay where they are for more than a year or two then some other software producer would step into the market, produce a new Trainsim and take all the new Trainzers out there.

So let's appeal to the forum that they should look to the future, put the old arguments behind them, and go forward. After all the costs of TRS 2010 is no more in Britain than a good evening out. The higher the volume of sales for new versions the cheaper they become. The cost of PCs which can handle 3-D graphics is yet to be determined, but doubtless any future version of Trainz would be able to handle both 3-D and conventional graphics should the initial cost of a 3-D compatible PC prove to be beyond the spending power of the average user when they are produced.

There's only one way we will find out, that is to grab the future press on and see what happens.

Bill

 

[teddytoot]

I was fascinated to read JCitron's post as my experience was almost identical. I started a bit earlier with the Polish forerunner to BVE (I've forgotten its name) which ran only in VGA (640x480) and then graduated to BVE but looked forward to a REAL simulator in MSTS. Like John I found its flawed editing facilities very frustrating. People who grumble at Auran releasing too soon should look at MSTS to see what a REAL too soon unfinished release looks like. I too downloaded the Auran free DD40 model hence my low KUID.

When Trainz did appear I looked at the demo but was not impressed. However by the time SP3 appeared I had another look as I was so frustrated by MSTS's editing nightmare. I was sufficiently impressed and haven't looked back since. At least Auran support their product which was more than Microsoft did after the first flurry.