Map Grid Problems!

[steamboateng]

After installing my new NE Mass Route into my newly installed TS12, I found that the 5/10 meter map grid was greatly distorted in Surveyor when in wireframe mode. I had a similar problem in TS10 but found the distortion disappeared if I used Surveyor in conjuction with Open Glide graphics. I switched over to Open Glide in TS12, but no love! Zec Murphy replied to a similar complaint that the problem was a conflict with the anti-alias feature of TS12, which now requires a setting of 2 at minimum (TS10 could be set to 0 ). Unless someone has come up with a workaround, or untill N3V fixes the glitch, it seems we're stuck with it. This is unfortunate, since many of us who use TransDEM with raster map or Google data exported as UTM objects now find that those objects are just about useless in TS12, because the grid distortion nearly blocks all visibilty of the UTM object data!
Fortunately, TransDEM offers the option of trasposing map data directly to the basebords as an overlay, which is complete with all the data the georeferenced maps contain: i.e. trackage, water bodies, streams, roads and terrain contour lines. I reinstalled the route using this approach, and crunched some numbers........
This is a rather large route, so don't be shocked by the numbers. Also I'm building the route from USGS 7.5 minute raster maps, not Google Earth photos.
The TS10 install used 279 mb for the route and 44 mb for 1200+ UTM Objects, which equals 323 Mb for the install.
The TS12 install used 279 mb for the route. but was 43 mb's larger that the TS1010 install, in the actual byte count.
Conclusions: It appears that overlaying the raster map data is no more expensive , in memeory, than creating UTM Objects, which can be discarded at any time. I also recognise that overlaying Google Earth data can take a bigger bite out of memeory because of the incrase in gragpic detail.
I think that applying raster map data as an overlay directly to the base boards is a viable alternative and no more inefficient in resource usage.
Regards

 

[belgian46]

Hello steamboateng,

Would you happen to have a screenshot of the issue in TS10 - quote I found that the 5/10 meter map grid was greatly distorted in Surveyor when in wireframe mode unquote

Thank you

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[misterchugg]

hi steamboateng

how did you get the overlay on?
i cant get that to work in my win7 2010

thanks
ron

 

[steamboateng]

I haven't found any problems with Win7 and Trainz or TransDEM.
Check the setup for TrainzDEM. Remember that 3 items are required to build the Trainz file for export.
1. A TransDEM generated DEM.
2. Raster maps or Google Earth data georefernced to the generated DEM.
3. A defined route using the TransDEM polyline tool.
With these three items complete, open TrainzDEM and select 'Export and Create DEM & Ground Textures. Select how many base boards you want to build to either side of your route. From The 'Overlay bitmap' heading check off your preferences. The 'Ground texture from raster map' box must be checked for the map to be overlayed on the base boards in Trainz. You also have the option to show UTM grid and show route. If you overlay the raster map, overlaying the polyline route you created will probably interfere with reading the raster map. Since the raster map will most likely show the route as trackage, I choose not to overlay the route. Hit OK.
If you are having problems, be specific in defining what precicely the problem is, so we can help.
Regards

 

[Jerker]

G'day steamboateng,

In reality, I believe there are actually FOUR requirements for a route to be 'successfully' created by TransDEM - the three you cite plus the need for the Texture Set that has been used in TransDEM to create the textures on the terrain to be installed on the user's system. Many is the time that I have provided a complete route for someone only to have them report back to me that they do not see any textures on the terrain when it has been loaded on their machine. I soon advise them to download the appropriate textures (the HOG Set in the past and more recently the WebColours Set) and once these are installed the reports indicate all to be as they should be...


...incidentally, the *.dem file does not HAVE to be generated solely by TransDEM. The only requirement is that it be a height file of the 'standard' *.dem format. I have successfully used MicroDEM and Global Mapper generated *.dem files in TransDEM without problems. Secondly, I have found that if I keep the Route Polyline thickness setting to "0" in the TransDEM settings, the subsequent drawn line is but 1 pixel wide on the terrain, making it a mere 10 meters thick on the route (5 if the 5 meter grid is set). The presence of the line delineating the location of the railway line amongst the multitude (and sometimes incomprehensible) other coloured lines on the terrain (especially when using a colourful Topographic map as a reference), will often be an advantage that far outweighs the 'annoyance' which the presence of the line may cause...

...finally, I have been assisting misterchugg for some months (on and off) now trying to 'solve' this problem for him and have, on many occasions advised him of the need for all of the requirements noted above and although Ron assures me that all these have been met, for reasons neither of us can ascertain, he is unable to produce the desired end result. Unfortunately, although we are both willing to make use of the Windows propriety program - Remote Assistant - (to aid in the cause to find the problem), neither of us can find a way, despite our best attempts and many hours of reading on my part, to overcome the block that is our router firewalls. If anyone here knows how this might be achieved, it would be appreciated if they could tell me, so I can then get Ron's problem solved, once and for all...

Jerker {}

 

[misterchugg]

hi steamboateng, jerker

steamboat
i did exactly what you wrote and the below screen is the result
only 1 small part had anything on it

hi jerker
i am getting somewhere the hard way

i sort of have a route down that i have been laying the roads in
hoping to check the track alignment tomorrow,
if i am given the free time

if its reasonably close,
then i will use that to do the route

i think i will have to do a dual boot setup back to win xp sp2
to get the rest of the route down.

jerker
i am positive that its somewhere in win7

i have been googling and studying, but so far nothing.

i can do a fair bit of that while i'm sitting in the car waiting to take them back home

just cannot lay the route on the laptop
its just not powerful enough to run 20910

thanks for the help
ron

By mister_chugg at 2012-03-05

 

[steamboateng]

Under the circmstances, I can see where you would consider the texture set a requirement, which it is. The texture set must be imported into the TRainz database when the TransDEM program is installed. As of TransDEM v.3.2, there are two texture sets; one for TS12 and one for TS10 and below. Since Misterchugg is getting some texture to show, perhaps reimporting the proper texture set into Trainz may help.
As for Win7, I have no idea what the problem may be!
Perhaps Dr. Z has some insight into misterchugg's dilema? He usually is very helpfull when these 'mysteries' occur.
Regards

 

[misterchugg]

hi mate
i have re-imported everything that's needed several times
same result

i will stick with what i have and
when i need to get the next section
i will re-install xp pro sp2
that worked with no dramas

cheers
ron

 

[steamboateng]

Sorry I couldn't give you any more insight into the problem.
Seems a shame to me, to switch back to Win XP! WIN7 is soooo much more stable and not tempermental at all, in my experience.
Just a few thoughts.............switch between Open Glide and DirectX graphics in Trainz; insure your graphics card drivers are suitable for WIN7; check your graghics card settings; check into your WIN7 set-up regarding graphics..........
It just doesn't make sense that you only get a partial uotput of the raster map overlay.
I have pointed Dr Z in the direction of this thread......perhaps he can offer some insight as to how TransDEM interacts with WIN7 graphics!
Regards

 

[misterchugg]

hi steamboateng
everything you suggested has been done several times
all without any further luck
i agree about win7
its much stabler and a lot easier when you get used to its quirks

if i ever find out what causes this
then i will post about it

thanks mate
ron

 

[geophil]

By mister_chugg at 2012-03-05

For all problems concerning the export of data from TransDEM to Trainz: Did you do the "Muengsten" tutorial in the TransDEM Trainz manual from begin to end? If yes, did you encounter any difficulties there, any deviations from the results expected? If yes, where did problems occur and what type of problems were these? Where these specific to a particular PC hardware?

Problems with TransDEM ground textures not being rendered correctly may have to do with "Hardware Texture Compression", an option in Trainz Content Manager which you should switch off. You must re-install any content, including the TransDEM ground textures, after changing this option.

 

[misterchugg]

hi mate
the tutuorial went fine
no problems
hardware texture were always switched off

re-installed a few times.

thanks for the help
i will run with what i have and when it comes to getting more dems
then i will re-install xp

cheers
ron

 

[geophil]

the tutuorial went fine
no problems
hardware texture were always switched off

On this particular machine? With this current installation of Windows?

 

[misterchugg]

hi mate
yes. on this machine with this win7 ultimate
its perplexing as to what is causing this

i ran a tracker a mate sent to me, but nothing shows up as wrong in the way the win7 system is running it.

thanks for all the help though

i will do a reinstall soon when i buy win7 professional

maybe then it will work

cheers
ron

 

[geophil]

hi mate
yes. on this machine with this win7 ultimate
its perplexing as to what is causing this

Not the operating system. If one route project, the Muengsten tutorial, succeeds, and the next one, your own, does not, it will have to do with the route project and possibly changed settings in TransDEM or Trainz. Windows 7 pro or ultimate will not have any influence. 32bit or 64bit versions may make a difference, but only for large projects, where 64bit allows TransDEM to allocate more memory.

Now, how did your project look in TransDEM before you exported to Trainz? Did you have a topo map for the ground textures? Which steps did you take to export? The very same as in the Muengsten tut? Did you change any of the settings in the TransDEM export dialogs?

 

[misterchugg]

hi mate
as far as i know i didn't change anything at all

i have always had dramas with this part
jerker helped me for quite a while until he ran out of ideas

i tried to redo everything today with the same as in the tungsten tute,
but it would not even start today

for now i will go with the route part that i have down

when it comes to getting the next section, i will try again , more than likely on an older xp machine

i found 1 in the sons shed that should do nicely
it has 4 gig of ram in it and xp pro sp3 on it

that wont be for a couple of month at least though

before i start on that, i will reread everything that jerker explained to me

thanks you again for your help
it really is fantastic of you

ron

 

[geophil]

i tried to redo everything today with the same as in the tungsten tute,

It may help if you post a screenshot from your own route project, as it looks in TransDEM before you start the export to Trainz.

 

[misterchugg]

hi mate
i will as soon as i get enough time to set it all up again.
might not be till later this week though
they both have to go for yet more tests
i'll have time to do some work on the laptop while they are in the testing rooms

thanks again for all the help
ron