Looking into making a Multiplayer-compatible route and session- have questions though

[shaneturner12]

Moderators - if I've put this in the wrong place, please put it in the right place for me.

Hi Trainzers,

Firstly, please bear with me on this, as it's the first time I've looked into the world of creating multiplayer-compatible routes and the associated MP sessions (all route activity I've been involved with so far is not multiplayer-compatible, even though I've been here for a while). I actually feel a bit embarrassed in asking these questions, but it's not an area I've dealt in properly until now.

I do have quite a few questions that those who actively get involved with MP routes/sessions may be able to answer. Note that I'm already familiar with the technical side like adding the Multiplayer Rule and uploading the route/session to the Download Station.

Here are the questions I'm pondering at the moment. You will notice that it's 'What's the general consensus' type questions, but individual comments are welcome.

1.What's the general consensus in terms of route size? Is there a minimum size for a route to be in order to be a reasonable multiplayer-compatible route?
2.What's the general consensus in terms of passenger stations (do other creators include passenger stations in their MP routes/sessions)?
3.What's the general consensus in terms of scenery - is more or less better? It's not one of the areas I get on particularly well with as my main WIP route is fairly plain in most areas apart from ground texturing.
4.What's the general consensus in terms of amount of industries? I know that there should be quite a few, but it's difficult to know how many to include.
5.What's the general consensus in terms of fictional/real locations? In my current WIP (non-MP) route, I do use real locations, but it does make things trickier.
6.What's the general consensus regarding prototypical/non-prototypical operations/track layout? The reason I ask this is because I find it difficult to keep things prototypical.
7.What's the general consensus regarding AI operations on a multiplayer session?

Any responses to any of the above questions are appreciated. In terms of build version, I'm using TS12 SP1 + HF1/2/3 (latest build).

Shane

P.S. This may surprise some, but I'm also no good at driving locomotives on Trainz. Hopefully this will not affect me in terms of Multiplayer on the creation (and hosting) side.

 

[Scottbe8]

I can't speak for the general consensus, but I can contribute my own opinion on what I like to see in a multiplayer session.

1) I prefer at least 100 miles of mainline with up to 50 miles in branches.
2) Love seeing passenger stations in MP routes. One of my favorites is the UMR, which unfortunately is too massive for me to run on SP1.
3) Quantity is not what's important - it's what scenery is used and where. Scenery objects should preferably be low-poly yet still maintain the appearance of the object they are meant to resemble, have a correct LOD tree, and be placed strategically so that they can be seen from the player vehicle. The goal here is frame rates; frame loss can cause the player to desynchronize from the server.
4) Industries should be well-spaced, reload quickly with output product, and be interconnected in terms of a product chain i.e. get oil, ore, and lumber, refine it, create parts from it, combine those parts into a product, and ship it to market.
5) I have no preference one way or another, as long as 1-4 are top-notch.
6) The object of the game is realism. Try to make your route as prototypical as you can without losing all your hair in the process.
7) Multiplayer sessions tend to do funky things with AI traffic, so avoid as much as possible.

And to your PS, you can use DCC mode in multiplayer sessions. It's much easier to control your speed in DCC. Just remember the following rules:
- For US routes, keep right-hand running where possible. Solid green = limit track speed; flashing green = limit 45 or track speed, whichever is lower; flashing yellow = limit 30 or track speed, whichever is lower; solid yellow = limit 15 or track speed, whichever is lower; red = STOP!! On multi-aspect signals, top aspect is for the mainline and bottom aspects are for the diverging routes. Be sure to maintain reduced speed (45) when navigating a crossover in the diverging direction until your last car has cleared the interlocking.
- For routes based on other regions, you may know better than I do about operations there.

Cheers!

 

[JIb228]

Let me take these on from my experience with MRL. I will be blunt with some things, maybe even a bit rude. But to get MP working right I think these things need to be addressed and considered. I will laso be pulling examples form other sims that have MP, such as Run8.

1.What's the general consensus in terms of route size? Is there a minimum size for a route to be in order to be a reasonable multiplayer-compatible route?
This is a interesting thing to take into consideration. Lets look at the two big routes that have/had MP. MRL is over 200 miles long and a point to point RR. And UMR is well over the 600 mile mark. These are nice if you like the long runs, but how many people will be in your session? If on MRL you have a 1 train and have 300 miles of track, with 3 people that means that you have very little interaction with other players. That was the case with MRL a lot. Many times I'd spend 4 hours working a yard and not see any other trains, even though there where 3-4 other people on the route. And this was the same experaince I had on UMR. Id run for hours, and never see another player.

But this is not to say that a small route is a good idea ether. Krashnburn is nice, but way too small for MP in my opinion. Every thing is packed on top of its self that you round a bend and see another player. Wile this is nice, you never lose sight of them, your all ways just around the bend.

Ideally, Id say build for the number of people you know you'll have in your session. But with out knowing how many people youll have in your session, there is no way to gauge that. My ideal route for MP, at the last count of people I had in my sessions would be between 20 and 50 miles long. This gives plenty of main line, while still keeping the players close enough to interact.

2.What's the general consensus in terms of passenger stations (do other creators include passenger stations in their MP routes/sessions)?
Ive never been a fan of passenger operations, so I dont have much to say on this. Though I did have a lot of people ask for passenger service on MRL, so I had to shoe horn it in. Some thing I still regret doing.

3.What's the general consensus in terms of scenery - is more or less better? It's not one of the areas I get on particularly well with as my main WIP route is fairly plain in most areas apart from ground texturing.
Make it look good. There are a few routes out there that would be fantastic to run, if they looked good. They just have one texture put down over the whole thing. Which gets boring really fast. IF I wanted to look at one uniform color for hours on end I'd play a flight sim and fly at 35k feet and look at the blue sky. It really bugs me to see a route, that has potential to be a lot of fun, have just grass001 or snow15 every where.

But at the same time dont go over board. Don't use speed trees, unless the are Mcgurals MP performance trees. And even then use them sparsely. Mix is her billboard trees and you'll have a good looking route with low hit on performance.

4.What's the general consensus in terms of amount of industries? I know that there should be quite a few, but it's difficult to know how many to include.
More is not all ways better, less is not all ways more. MRL has some where in the range of 100+. Which is a lot to keep track of, for both planing and players. But only a few might not only get boring, but might cause troubles when two or more players try to unload at the same power plant. How ever you do it though, keep track of every detail. The name of the industry, what it produces, what it consumes, how much and how fast. What town is it in, what side of the main. All that. And on the industry mark it out. I like to use the white insulated rail joins to indicate where the industry track is. This way some one who has never run be for can see where they need to put a car. The white ones stand out good on the JR track.

5.What's the general consensus in terms of fictional/real locations? In my current WIP (non-MP) route, I do use real locations, but it does make things trickier.
I think its about 50/50. As long as the railroad works and seams prototypical, regardless if its fictional or not, people seam to enjoy them. I for one like the prototypical routes, but those dont all ways make for the best operations, inustry wise. You might have a prototypical route, such as a DEM made to scale roue with a power plant but no coal mine to supply it. This means you have to come up with another way of getting coal there. Portals seam like a logical idea, but they have issues all their own in MP. Best bet is to shoe horn in a coal mine or some sort of coal loading industry.

6.What's the general consensus regarding prototypical/non-prototypical operations/track layout? The reason I ask this is because I find it difficult to keep things prototypical.
Most people are idiots. And CMTMS dose not work in MP. Those two things right there kinda killed operations for me an MRL. I would try to implement train orders and what not with MRL, but people like to do things their own way. And even simple rules like "All ways have a caboose" would not be followed. Or even "Swap car for car" could not be followed. My general idea was, "I'll place the cars that get loaded/unloaded at the industry. Then a player will come along, pick up the car that is there and replace it with one they brought form the yard. Regardless if its loaded or not." But most people seamed to think, "Well I have an empty box car, and that one is empty too. And I am going there to load this one. So I'll load them both and bring back two cars to the yard." Which is not at all what I intended to happen. I tried to remedy this by using protolars industries, so cars would have to sit for X amount of time before loading/unloading. Unfortunately, they didn't work in my case so I gave up on them and went back to MIN's.

Maybe one day I'll experiment with PL's on test MP route

And maybe one day CMTM will work in MP and then operations will greatly improve.

7.What's the general consensus regarding AI operations on a multiplayer session?
No, just no. I disable all AI commands in my MP sessions. Much to many peoples anger. I'm not in an MP session to play with AI, I'm here to play with people.

Also, AI is stupid and ignores what ever is going on. Lets say we have 6 miles of track. Each mile is one block with signals and every thing. The blocks are numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. All are single track except for block 3 which has a passing siding. An AI train is in block 1, and I am in block 6. We both start heading down the main towards each other. The AI train gets to block 2 no problem and proceeds into block 3 on the main, all is well. I enter block 5 and line the turnout into the siding in block 3. The AI, who dose not care that I am on the railroad, relines the turnouts and proceeds into block 4. So now the AI and I meet at the signals between block 4 and 5 and both must stop. I had this happen on one MP session where I was not host, and the host who had issued the AI commands was AFK. So there was no way to get this AI train out of my way. I had to back my train up several miles to a passing siding and let this AI pass. Only to find the AI decided that my passing siding was the shorte4st route and attempted to go down the track I was on. So I had to back my train up and try to put it on the other track. But the AI decided to lock the turn out I needed to get to the main. At this point I gave up and left the session.

So yea, I hate AI in MP, I dont think it should be used at all. Not to say in solo play you cant use them.

 

[shaneturner12]

Thank you for the responses so far. I will take it all into consideration when I start my MP project.

Shane