Just a few questions about TRS 2019

On the other side TANE runs smoothly if I compare :D

I'm not going to buy and ssd just to test TRS but I don't think that is really the problem. How I said it depends also on the people. Some doesn't matter, other considers some stutters, and others like me hate them (but I can consider some I am not a bad guy but not every 5 seconds either). It's like when I play a racing game simulator, stutters are nightmare if they occurs. I'm waiting for the defrag to finish, I make it only on the disk where are the content for now because I would like to test first to see if something has changed.

Other thing to consider : the engine of the game. I'm not saying that the engine is the cause of my stutters, I just say that there are a lot of different rigs and it's not impossible on some of them the engine works less on them. It's a possibility too.

TRS 19 is installed but the content are not downloaded for now because I'm waiting the end of the defragmentation.

Sorry for my english...I know I should make a lot of mistakes, so please apologize for that ;)
 
I really can't understand your stuttering problems. In theory, you have a faster system than mine and yet mine runs very smoothly with the default "High" setting and a few things on "Ultra". I only have the GTX1050 on default NVidia settings. I have Full Screen set on my monitor's optimum resolution (1920 X 1050 60Hz) Vert. Sync. set to full. (Just had a thought - is your resolution setting N3V's default or have you changed it to meet your optimal resolution as that definitely will slow you down?) 16Gb RAM should be adequate, that's what I have - unless you have multiple background applications or file swapping going on.

Wish I could help you buddy!
 
With those specs you should be getting better performance than I do but you obviously aren't.

I've found that the real killer are shadows. On the Ultra setting it just kills my frame rates. And I have Vert. Sync. set to off. Dunno what the V.S. does but I seem to get better performance with it off.
 
I have the same problem as, "CrystalNoir." I have also configured TRS19 in all possible ways, and all without success.
The only way to improve stuttering is to deactivate the HUD with the F5 key.

My computer specs:

CPU: AMD FX-6300 6 cores 3.3ghz, 16Gb RAM
GRAPHICS: RX-580 8Gb
TRS19 load in SSD

Best Regards,
Vicens
 
I just reinstall TRS 2019 stock without changing anything for now. I just tell TRS 2019 at the start that I have "High" config (because the description corresponds with my rig (and the description tells less that I have). And I made a defrag for my HDD. I didn't change anything else and launched the game. The launcher itself setup with not fullscreen and with an half vsync when I choose "High". So in theory I should run 30 FPS smoothly. But it's not the case FPS are 20-25-30-22-20-15 etc...

I made the test with afterburner, I didn't overclock anything but it makes be able to display on the screen in osd some stats and I can see one thing : TRS 2019 use 100 % of my CPU...not all the time but 95 % of the time, that can explain the stutters I have.

I didn't finish my tests because I want to play with some settings to see if I can reduce the use of the CPU. And to confirm that the osd didn't say wrong things, I have ran the task manager and it confirms that this is TRS 2019 that consume all of my cpu (same value as the OSD stat on my game screen).

Now how I said I didn't finished my tests, but that could be a clue. cpu temp and gpu temp are normal. GPU 70-80° that is the factory normal temp (83° to be exact if the GPU goes to 92° it make it itself "on alarm" and stop working). So, temperatures are normal.

But 100 % of the cpu when running could explain a part of the problem (I5-6500 3,2 Ghz 4 Cores).

HDD has been defragmented too, so, it's not related.

@correcaminos : thanks for the tip, I'm going to test that (disable the HUD).

And again, I didn't finish my tests and I'm going to tweak settings to see if something changes or not (especially for the Cpu usage). So I will update you when I will have some other informations.

As you can see I didn't abandoned because I want it to run on my rig and play with it, and it makes me crazy to see that I have these problems and I want to understand why. And if it's necessary I will make a small private video to explain to you with images (and not videos because recording could alter the performances of the game) what I'm seeing when playing and what sort of jerks/stutters I have.
 
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CrystalNoir - Your CPU is a very capable Intel quad-core i5 and shouldn't be running at 100% utilisation (95% of the time) running either T:ANE or TRS19. Something is seriously wrong somewhere there.
What are your Trainz Settings for 'Use multiple render threads' and 'Use PhysX simulation'? Suggest have the first one ticked (ON) and the latter turned OFF.
My CPU rarely gets above 35% during Driver Sessions and mostly languishes in the 20's during Surveyor editing. Really heavily-demanding moments during complicated sessions might see fleeting visits to around 75% CPU utilisation however.
With your GTX 1060 6Gb, it would probably pay to reduce your shadow quality levels to 'High' at best, though the best quality/performance compromise for you might be setting this to 'Medium'.
Suggest set the GPU vertical synch to either 'Half' or 'Full'. The only time I have ever witnessed 100% CPU utilisation of my i7 CPU is when is got itself into a frenzy trying to support my GTX 1070 8Gb running a very buggy early T:ANE beta with Vertical Sync turned OFF.
20% HDD fragmentation is actually very high and would definitely impact drive performance. Suggest run defrag routinely at a minimum weekly interval.
Also, make sure your antivirus/ malware software is set to ignore your TRS19 folder and Trainz executables by creating an Exception.
 
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JZ2CNT

My CPU isn't at 100 % when I'm not running TSR 2019. And in fact it runs at 100 % only when the train is moving and when I navigate around (more often in cab view). If I stop the train and stay static, the cpu runs ok. I already make my HDD defrag yesterday too.

I put all the settings down (all of them) but I let multiple threads on. I run the game and...that was better ! BUT "Vicens" has right, if I turn off HUD (F5) with all these settings, the game runs completly smooth. If I hit F5 again to put on the HUD stutters comes back (but less than the first run because I put all settings all the way down).

But now I don't want to play these game all the settings off, I have just to find wich one make my cpu crazy. PhysX is setting to run with my nvidia card and not my cpu in the drivers.
 
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Ok, I finished all my tests and I let it down.

The only way I have to have something totally smooth is to put all the option down (also texture to low), and get rid of the HUD that causes stutters too (like "Vicens" has mentioned). When I do that all is ok.
Now I just change the texture to "normal" and the stutters start happening at the same as the HUD is off (but it stays reasonable so no pb), but if I activate something else that's finished I have the same pb as before, and my GPU is far away to its capacity limit, but the CPU suffers a lot.

So I know that my rig is not 100 % ok, but I think the engine neither. I have a bunch of demanding games run smoothly with shaders physX and co. So yes there is something but I'm not going to play this game with all off and texture on low with my specs.

I have made all tests I was able to do and the result is this game doesn't want to run smoothly on my rig or I have to make all the sliders down and put off the HUD and I have made all the tweaks possible (defrag, temp verif, drivers updates etc... etc...). I passed my last day to do these tests without a real success, I want to do something else (play a game for example
:D).

Thank you all for your precious help. May be one day I will come back, with a more solid rig. And don't remember stutters are subjectives. Some people are not annoyed by some of them, others hate this kind of effect in a game (like me), it depends of the person. When there are some time to time that's ok but every 2-3 seconds is not possible for me.

See you soon, and thank you again for your help. I'm pretty sure, when I will change some things on my rigs the game will run better and I will give it an other try. But for now, I'm skipping my turn.
 
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Hello everybody,

I'm back, I know, I know I am a real mulish and that's because I know there is no reason that I can not fully enjoy this nice game.

I made some tests and somes things are to take in consideration :

- In term of FPS the game is very very smooth (good point), can have 60 FPS all the time.
- In term of rendering, on my rig streaming textures seems to be more demanding than if I desactivate this option.
- I may be a little too much of a perfectionist, that's why I often search for the best things I can to enjoy my game.
- Windows 10 could be also a thing to consider regarding the tone of games that (at the start) have some difficulties to give great performances.

I think I have find a compromise to have performance and something visual that is correct but I have to choose between shadows and clutters. Turfx is not a great idea on my rig (don't know why however).

Instead of using in game settings for FPS and vsync and I use an Nvdia inspector that make me able to make some better tweaks. I think I can give this game a try without stay in the tutorial mode (that served me for testing purposes) because depending the route the performances can be different. However my CPU always run at 90-100 % when the train is moving don't know why.

Something I would like that devs are aware (but I don't know how to give the message), "Vincens" is right when he says that the HUD has an impact on the overall performances of the game. I don't know witch thing of the HUD eats perf but I didn't test removing some things in it yet but I already know that is not the 3D portrait (I tested it).

I said "I let down" but I'm not because I'm sure this game has a lot to give and how I already said it "I am a mulish" and I don't like to stay on a failure :D

I have a month for now to play with so I don't want to waste it and I am going to play with and I will tell later how I enjoyed it. But, please make something with the HUD it's right, if I desactivate it I have a rendering more smooth and pleasant to look at.

Be aware that I made all my tests in cab view, look at the windows (in third view we have less kind of jerks).

I hope it can help and if a dev see this thread, may be there is something to do with the HUD. I will test to desactive one by one things in the HUD to see if there is something special in it that could cause this performance issue. I'm not saying that is all right but I can play with it and that's a good point.

I wish you a Merry Christmas all !

See you soon :)
 
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I do not see any difference in smoothness running the Driver HUD, but I have supressed the ghoulish animated driver images in the driver pane. Do you have 'Animated Portraits' set to On or off?
Set this to 'Off' and tell us whether you see any difference in HUD performance.
I'm about to test this in a sandbox route with FRAPS to see whether I can induce any framerate instability and will let you know what happens afterwards.

Edit Update: Check out my post in this related thread here: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?149473-HUD-has-a-huge-impact-on-performance/page2

Bottom line is: I get higher framerates in a carefully-contrived test session scenario with the HUD and Menus turned ON than when they are supressed using the F5 toggle! No idea why.
 
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Ok guys I find a compromise that works pretty good for me, but I need to use the settings of the game and Nvidia Inspector. However, the Hud pb is always here but I didn't test to reduce it yet, so I will make the test. I already try to make a 2D portrait instead of 3D but without any improvement. So here's what I've done, be aware that I've made my test with the first tutorial because there are a lot of things here : buildings, animals etc... And to test the better thing is to always take to same scenario.

Note : That will not help you to get rid of these stutters but at least reduce them a few.

Although I use MSI Afterburner to have stats on the game screen with an OSD and see how my rig performs.

Be aware that these settings don't get rid of the stutters but they happen less and they appear more "quickly" (sorry I hope you understand what I mean difficult for me in english sometimes).

On the game settings :
--------------------------
- Res : Full screen 1920 x 1080 60 HZ (important)
- Vertical sync : None (very important I will explain why later).
- Shadow : High
- Shadow Res : 2048
- Shader quality : Standard
- Texture detail : High
- Post processing : High
- Water quality : Low
- Detail scenery : Off (to much demanding for my rig even if I turn off shadows).
- Antialiasing : 4X
- Detail update rate : High

- Use multiple render threads : on
- Use texture streaming : off
- Use PhysX (I have not test with or without so, I will test it later) : off
- Process objects behind camera : off

Now here's the trick. We ask the game to start 1920x1080 at 60 Hz with no vsync that means that the game can run at differents speeds/frequency. Turn Vsync on (half or full) force the game try to get 60 FPS (in this case) that can cause performances issues (on my rig). The problem is that without it, there are a lot of jerks / stutters too because the framerate change everytime (50-55-60-35-40-50-60 and so on). That's why I use Nvidia Inspector that is a program that is more powerfull than the Nvidia Control Panel and let us tweak some things.

There are just 2 things to change. First of all in the Nvidia Inspector :

- Select the right profile that this the "TANE" profile, I don't know why but if I create a new profile for this game that doesn't work so use this one.
- Add the TRS2019 executable to the profile (to make the software apply the settings we are going to make).

Now here's the two tweaks I've done :

- Frame rate limiter : 60 FPS (V2) Choose the V2 option is important because it gives best performances than the 60 FPS regular option.
- Vsync : Fast

And that's all. Very important : click the "apply button" and relaunch totally the game (close the game, and the launcher, and relaunch them, to make the changes applied). Nvidia Inspector is going to tell the game to run max to 60 FPS (to overtake the vsync option we put on "none" in the game settings if you remember, because we don't want to use the "vsync option of the game".

Put "Fast" for the vsync tells the game to use the vsync but in a faster way than (full or half). In this way the game will not try to be to 60 FPS exactly all the time but it will let a "+/-" value that means that sometimes you will be at 60, and sometimes 61-62 or 59, and the vsync will render faster. But be aware that the "Fast" option does not stick your FPS to 60 it's not like a full vsync that's why we use the FPS limiter above that make the job for us, because remember we tell the game settings to do not use "vsync" and without this "framerate limiter" Fast vsync works like a regular vsync (avoid tearing) but without limiting the refresh frequency.

In this way stutters and jerks are always here but happen less often and if they happen, that will be very quick and not should alter you game experience too much.

Now I can profit more and if I have some stutters they happen quickly and they disapear in a second. And in some places of the map I don't have any stutter (I had in these particular places before I make these tweaks).

It's not optimal, it doesn't correct the HUD stuttering problem but it make the game more enjoyable. I've made all these tests without the HUD to not "compromise" the tests because I know that if I display it, I have stutters and jerks. I will look at this HUD pb later and if I can't find anything, may be we will have to wait devs to make a patch for that :)

I hope these tips will help some people who have these kind of problems like me. It's not perfect but already better ;) And if you need to, you can ask me to make a little video to explain exactly how these tweaks can be done if you find my explaination not clear.

My Rig :
---------

- 3 HDD SATA 7200 trs/mns (the game is installed on a disk, and the datas (contents) on another disk).
- I5 quad core 6500 3,20 GH
- 16 GB RAM
- MSI Geforce GTX 1060 6 GB

Have a good day and see you soon !
 
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Just a thought, I was getting slight stutter until I got rid of Win10's game bar.......
Also I don't use Nvidia Experience, it's not installed and I'm not running any tweaking stuff, don't need it with a 1080TI and a slightly overclocked i7 6700K.
 
Adding more to the subject, i also tried with fullscreen and window mode and no diference (still stuttering on both) also i not have the nvidia experience neither any tweaking apps.
 
Just a thought, I was getting slight stutter until I got rid of Win10's game bar.......
Also I don't use Nvidia Experience, it's not installed and I'm not running any tweaking stuff, don't need it with a 1080TI and a slightly overclocked i7 6700K.

What do you mean by "Win10"s game bar ?" We don't have any bar if we play in fullscreen or may be you mean another bar ?

I don't have GeForce Experience neither. For the Nvidia Inspector, it's the same thing as you have in your control panel driver with more options, and, in the nvidia control panel you have a "TANE" or "TrainZ" profile by default, installed by the drivers.

How i said, with what I explained, stutters are always here but less annoying (and how I said without the HUD bar, with this HUD bar "on" that changes nothing).
 
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What do you mean by "Win10"s game bar ?" We don't have any bar if we play in fullscreen or may be you mean another bar ?

I don't have GeForce Experience neither. For the Nvidia Inspector, it's the same thing as you have in your control panel driver with more options, and, in the nvidia control panel you have a "TANE" or "TrainZ" profile by default, installed by the drivers.

How i said, with what I explained, stutters are always here but less annoying (and how I said without the HUD bar, with this HUD bar "on" that changes nothing).

Windows 10 assuming you are up to date to at least the Creators Edition, has a Game bar and messes with things to enable better performance, except it actually doesn't unless you have a Microsoft favoured Game. And it runs in the background unless you kill it off.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3188242/gaming/the-windows-10-game-bar-what-pc-gamers-need-to-know.html

[url]https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-and-remove-game-bar-windows-10-creators-update

[/URL]
 
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Windows 10 assuming you are up to date to at least the Creators Edition, has a Game bar and messes with things to enable better performance, except it actually doesn't unless you have a Microsoft favoured Game. And it runs in the background unless you kill it off.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3188242/gaming/the-windows-10-game-bar-what-pc-gamers-need-to-know.html

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-and-remove-game-bar-windows-10-creators-update

Thank you for the tips, I've just shut it off ! I will try the game again see if it helps ! Thank you for that.

EDIT : I tried but it doesn't change anything in regard of the HUD stutters problem. HUD = stutters / jerks, no HUD = smooth and I don't know why.
 
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What exactly is your testing environment, CrystalNoir?
It is most likely that you have some faulty asset causing processor and GPU loads/ stutters.
Or your output device/ monitor is not set to the correct refresh rate and resolution for the device. (Essential!)
What are your Windows Display settings for Scaling and Layout? At recommended %?

Or perhaps you haven't configured your GPU and/or CPU optimally.
Suggest run all of the above-suggested tests in a clean, New Route (and Default session) environment using only TRS19 Build 4.6 assets to eliminate any possible contamination from corrupted, hi-poly, or out-of-date assets.

To test the HUD performance and framerates empirically, you'll need to have a standardised session environment. Single loco with assigned driver, single stretch of track, etc.
Use the built in Trainz Profiler (Launcher, Developer Menu) to measure the frame-rates before and after setting the HUD parameters and note the impact of each change of settings.

In my tests, I can reliably reproduce a DECREASE in framerates when the Driver HUD is removed using the F5 key!
i.e. I get a steady 93 FPS with the HUD and menus displayed and 73 FPS when they are hidden. This is with all of the Trainz Performance settings maxed out and a draw distance of 15000m.
Zero stutter or instability.
That's your goal - now - what do you need to change to achieve this?
 
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When is the last time that PC had a good cleaning, I.E Reformat? It might just be time to start squeaky clean. I'd really ponder it at this point.

But, that is a cop out, and it really could be a N3V thing, or something playing foul on the side of injection. Sometime tells me the way TR19 overlay for HUD is coded is causing some issues obviously, on practical hardware.

Can you also try NOT running ANY monitoring software, no On Screen Display (OSD), no Geforce Experience, no Shadowplay. Just use Task Manager to monitor usage and loads under Performance. Still do it?

Something just tells me two OSDs are playing a fighting match behind the scenes somewhere. The games, and something else. Just a hunch from similar problems I had in various games in QA days.
 
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