Jasonbarnos special thread to discuss things one on one with Tony Hilliam

[rjhowie]

As JCitron said earlier every occasion a new version comes out there is an almost inbuilt negative run on the forums. Even allowing for any individual problems i look beyond the routine moans and think how important tTainz has been to me in my general life. Years ago I used to have great health but have intermittent problems now on health issues and being a lifelong train fan coming across Trainz by accident years ago was a great boon and boost. Where i got any passing issues with a new version I got help and advice on the forums and plodded on. Unlike other train sims you get a far wider working on our Trainz -not just driving a train but a a heck of a lot more.

No matter what the subject in life is be it politics, religion, ways of life how countries are run and so on there are always a lot of automatic groans about some routine issue, etc. Our Forums see that too as we are all human but big epistles like this thread issue make me groan and I concentrate on my rail building and how much Trainz means to me personally. Was Trainz a great find? Yep it was. Does it become an extra help when from time to time I get stuck at home rather than being out, Yes it does. For any passing issues our simulator IS more varied and active than the others and for those occasional passing pains it is great and being positive. Indeed one of the early wider progress people that started my historic tradition said at his trial centuries ago "Here I stand I can do no other." That's me for Trainz (with apologies to M. Luther!

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

I have tidied up a bunch of off topic and anti-coc posts. Let's please continue this thread looking for solutions not trolling.

half of the "new" features don't even work properly.

Please provide detailed examples of the bugs.

you have to use a backwards and annoying way to edit builtin routes, you still can't even edit builtin content properly

Why should content creators provide clonable content for non-owners to share? (It is all or nothing - if you can edit it, you can redistribute it for free).

alpha channels still don't work

Up your AA setting and they do - unless there is a different issue, in which case please explain further with KUIDs and screenshots.

the game is still unoptimized

Works way better than TS12 here comparing apples with apples. Please provide fps examples of what your comparison is to TS12 and ensure that you aren't comparing a 5km set draw distance with an actual 2km scene cull distance (you can turn on the stats in TS12 to find your actual draw distance)

backwards compatibility is shot unless you want to spend most of your free time updating content to "current standards

Less than 0.5% of DLS items show as faulty in TANE - we have no control over 3rd party content - please provide examples of issues and whether you would like to help fix the errors.

we can't use non-DLS content (some of the best out there) in multiplayer unless we hack into the game and change code around...

This is the way it has always been - our policy is that everyone must have the same assets. We have no way of telling if they are the same unless they are builtin in or on the DLS.

Please provide your further list so that other issues can be addressed also.

 

[ATSF854]

Up your AA setting and they do - unless there is a different issue, in which case please explain further with KUIDs and screenshots.

Alpha channel blending does not work at any level of AA. I've reported this numerous times as well

(yay 1000th post)

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

OK everyone, lets stop the personnel stuff, it just winds everyone up and doesn't get us anywhere. Let's do what Tony asked and use this thread to make bullet points on what doesn't work. That way we might get somewhere.

1. Disappearing trains
2. After editing/creating a route surveyor for a long period causes it to crash to desktop

Steve

1. Please provide the reproducable steps to get this occur.
2. Please provide the reproducable steps to get this occur.

With an idea what you do to cause the issue, we can probably fix it.

 

[simtrain]

Hi Tony,
In surveyor I moved a couple of trains from one track to another so as to tweak the track they were on. I then moved them back.on to the original track, went to Quick Drive and they had move to either under a baseboard, or off the boards completely. I can't delete them or do anything with them.

As for the surveyor crashing it happens when deleting lots of objects and baseboards.

Keep your chin up and don't let. The buggers pull you down

Steve

 

[jmann]

Alpha channel blending does not work at any level of AA

*Same here. Still getting the banding effect with AA maxed.
*Running numbers still not showing in TANE that were working fine in TS12.
*Soundscripts for simple scenery objects not working correctly. Sound plays around the clock, at the same volume, and from anywhere on the map.
*Materials that use a reflective texture (m.tbumpenv, m.tbumpgloss). Reflection is off center. I'm sorry, it's a little difficult for me to explain this one
correctly.

At this point, just a simple "Yes, we are going to fix this" or "No, we're not going to fix this" would ease my mind. Stuck in limbo,
Jake

 

[amigacooke]

Remember there's now offline mode for all products...

John

If you mean DRM free, no there isn't. MacTANE only comes in a DRM flavour.

 

[CaptEngland]

People.

Just give it up! No matter what we tell N3V, N3V will do what it likes and promise the moon on a stick to get us to buy the next version. This is now the way of the main computer game industry, and it's getting to a point where plans are afoot to get an industry watchdog set up, to back up the consumer against the now standard bug ridden software that is being released.

All games publishers will soon get a kick up the backside, at least in the E.U. (and hopefully British market). Due to ongoing discussions with certain M.P's (Yes, they do play games now!) and the logistics on setting up an organisation, I'm cannot give more information at this time.

Regards.
CaptEngland

 

[martinvk]

Getting a politician to meddle in a game? Can you say nanny state?

 

[JCitron]

If you mean DRM free, no there isn't. MacTANE only comes in a DRM flavour.

I don't care about Mac products....

To clarify I was told to stay out of Mac discussions because I'm a "PC" user so as far as the Mac product goes, it doesn't exist.

All other PC products have the offline mode.

 

[pware]

All games publishers will soon get a kick up the backside, at least in the E.U. (and hopefully British market). Due to ongoing discussions with certain M.P's (Yes, they do play games now!) ....

If the resulting "Game Control" legislation is anything like what I have been reading about your "synthetic drugs" legislation, that is now before your House of Commons, then not even a pack of cards will be safe!

 

[weevil]

. . .All other PC products have the offline mode.

Are you sure John? I am running T:ANE SP1 bought from Simulator Central. As far as I know my version "phones home" every so often. If for any reason my product can no longer contact the mothership I believe my version of T:ANE will cease to function. I could be wrong though. Any clarification on this appreciated.

Stuart

 

[JCitron]

Are you sure John? I am running T:ANE SP1 bought from Simulator Central. As far as I know my version "phones home" every so often. If for any reason my product can no longer contact the mothership I believe my version of T:ANE will cease to function. I could be wrong though. Any clarification on this appreciated.

Stuart

If you opted for the offline version, there's a checkbox to work offline. Start T:ANE... At the launcher click on the Trainz Settings/Internet tab then check work offline.

John

 

[weevil]

There was no offline option.

Stuart

 

[clam1952]

Stuart, I think you probably got hold of TANE after the emails were sent out to those who already had TANE with the link to register for an Off-line version, there is a patch however off-line needs a serial number which was why the need to register. Not sure if there was a cutoff date or not. One for the helpdesk perhaps? If the PTB don't pick it up from here.

 

[jadebullet]

You have an opinion and yet it differs from the majority of users. Please read the story about Ryan who is over the moon about TANE. Please also review the Survey feedback that shows 75% of users think TANE is the best version ever. If you don't like the product, that is fine, but please don't spend your time on our forums spoiling things for the many thousands of people who do not agree with your opinions and who are keen to see Trainz continue to improve over time.

That Ryan story is not a good metric for if your game is good. I mean, it is a cutesy PR thing, but not really something that should be flaunted as "look, we are doing really well and our product is good." It's a kid saying he liked your game, not a subjective review or anything like that. Also, when I saw that poll, I couldn't help but laugh as I don't remember any poll going up anywhere, and you aren't going to be getting that sort of numbers on which version is preferred, especially when the current release has spawned so much animosity.

Now I am one of the odd people who sees TANE for what it is, and wasn't really expecting anything more. It is just a normal Trainz release. Same outdated physics engine, but now with a new graphics engine. It continues the normal trainz release policy of "same as the last game, with a few improvements, some bugs that will eventually be fixed by SP1 or the next version of trainz, and a bunch of broken assets." I purchased it expecting Trainz 12 with some slight improvements, and that is pretty much what I got. (Though the new Content Manager has a horrible UI) Also, screw that payware tag bullcrap. You have assets that were never payware being tagged, and even some assets where the creator actually encouraged modification and sharing.

As for thousands of people who are keen to see Trainz to continue to improve over time? It took you how long to fix the bell ringing on every engine issue? And I mean, the new graphics engine is really nice and all, but the core engine is still really showing its age, so the simulation aspect of the game has really fallen behind since it is still running on the original engine. I hate to say it, but I have played through every trainz game from 04 onwards and TANE is only slightly more of a step forward than 10 to 12, and is kind of on par with 06 to 09. (Though thankfully it isn't as screwed up as 09)

Also, what is this crap about a subscription? I mean, DLS access is rough enough as it is, but whatever. It is worth it for access to the assets. Some sort of subscription to play the game, or something like that is just really stupid and I hate to say it, the game just isn't worth paying a subscription for.

Edit: Looked up what this next thing is. While multiplayer surveyor mode sounds cool and all, I am sure that it will have the same issues as regular multiplayer. Mainly in that it will be restricted to DLS assets and thus not really be worth it for me.

Edit 2: Can we create some sort of subscription plan based on that little diagram you put up where the "happy customers" that make the content that makes your game function get a chunk of the money from the subscription based on how used their content is? I mean, without content creators, the game sure is lacking and if you are going to force users to put their content on the DLS where it "automatically becomes N3V property" in order for it to be used in multiplayer surveyor you should probably pay them as well.

 

[trackman2791]

That Ryan story is not a good metric for if your game is good. I mean, it is a cutesy PR thing, but not really something that should be flaunted as "look, we are doing really well and our product is good." It's a kid saying he liked your game, not a subjective review or anything like that. Also, when I saw that poll, I couldn't help but laugh as I don't remember any poll going up anywhere, and you aren't going to be getting that sort of numbers on which version is preferred, especially when the current release has spawned so much animosity.

Now I am one of the odd people who sees TANE for what it is, and wasn't really expecting anything more. It is just a normal Trainz release. Same outdated physics engine, but now with a new graphics engine. It continues the normal trainz release policy of "same as the last game, with a few improvements, some bugs that will eventually be fixed by SP1 or the next version of trainz, and a bunch of broken assets." I purchased it expecting Trainz 12 with some slight improvements, and that is pretty much what I got. (Though the new Content Manager has a horrible UI) Also, screw that payware tag bullcrap. You have assets that were never payware being tagged, and even some assets where the creator actually encouraged modification and sharing.

As for thousands of people who are keen to see Trainz to continue to improve over time? It took you how long to fix the bell ringing on every engine issue? And I mean, the new graphics engine is really nice and all, but the core engine is still really showing its age, so the simulation aspect of the game has really fallen behind since it is still running on the original engine. I hate to say it, but I have played through every trainz game from 04 onwards and TANE is only slightly more of a step forward than 10 to 12, and is kind of on par with 06 to 09. (Though thankfully it isn't as screwed up as 09)

Also, what is this crap about a subscription? I mean, DLS access is rough enough as it is, but whatever. It is worth it for access to the assets. Some sort of subscription to play the game, or something like that is just really stupid and I hate to say it, the game just isn't worth paying a subscription for.

Edit: Looked up what this next thing is. While multiplayer surveyor mode sounds cool and all, I am sure that it will have the same issues as regular multiplayer. Mainly in that it will be restricted to DLS assets and thus not really be worth it for me.

Edit 2: Can we create some sort of subscription plan based on that little diagram you put up where the "happy customers" that make the content that makes your game function get a chunk of the money from the subscription based on how used their content is? I mean, without content creators, the game sure is lacking and if you are going to force users to put their content on the DLS where it "automatically becomes N3V property" in order for it to be used in multiplayer surveyor you should probably pay them as well.

 

[pware]

While multiplayer surveyor mode sounds cool and all, I am sure that it will have the same issues as regular multiplayer. Mainly in that it will be restricted to DLS assets and thus not really be worth it for me

Just looking at this point, I am curious as to what alternative you could offer.

I have heard of one game (can't remember the title) where different players have access to different payware assets. For example, one player may have purchased and can use the latest attack helicopter while the others, who have not paid for it, cannot. The other players can see the helicopter but cannot use it themselves. Obviously, this means that all payware assets must be pre-installed in every copy of the game but can only be unlocked and used by those who purchase them from the game DLC site. This would obviously not work for assets created by third parties and hosted on independent web sites - which would rule out all Trainz third party assets.

 

[NIARTcar]

Edit 2: Can we create some sort of subscription plan based on that little diagram you put up where the "happy customers" that make the content that makes your game function get a chunk of the money from the subscription based on how used their content is? I mean, without content creators, the game sure is lacking and if you are going to force users to put their content on the DLS where it "automatically becomes N3V property" in order for it to be used in multiplayer surveyor you should probably pay them as well.

This, is completely on point.... something about paying subscription fees for a game that is 90%+community content based is just ridiculous. DLS? Fine, I got you, it costs money to run that service, so I can shell out some cash now and again for a fast download ticket, but this no.

the game just isn't worth paying a subscription for.

 

[jadebullet]

Just looking at this point, I am curious as to what alternative you could offer.

Easy, don't have the asset? It's a missing asset and contact your buddy for help with it. I mean, that is what is done anyway with assets currently. It isn't like multiplayer where a missing boxcar can royally screw up a consist, it is surveyor. The worst that can happen is that stuff is missing, it won't break the game. And it can be easily rectified with "Hey, where do I get this asset." replied with "Oh, that? Yeah, it is these two russian people going at it. you can get it here [link]"