Is this an AI-only layout I've downloaded?

[AnalogOldguy]

cHello folks,

I downloaded a layout today which is of a type I have never seen before!

There are short bits of red invisible rail all over the place which seem to have no other purpose in life than to crash trains off the track !

Of course, I realize that there must be other purposes, and have found, by searching, that the route is set up heavily for AI drivers (possibly only AI drivers?)...

There are lots of invisible signals also, and these bits of invisible track which draw the trains off the tracks.... no matter how carefully I set the switches.

Do you think I will have to delete all of these? (I've done a couple, and it can really become a pain, often deleting and having to repair some of the tracks) ...to be able to run the trains manually? Or is there some magic method of shutting these things off? Thanks for any help from you.

(Trainz 2004 SP4, Ver.2.4 Build 2370) Bob P.

 

[itareus]

Hi Bob,

.....the route is set up heavily for AI drivers (possibly only AI drivers?)...

Sounds like it was, I also use invisible rail junctions and invisible signals for AI operation especially on complex trackwork, just to make the AI work OK.

I'm not familiar with 2004 but in 2009 you can change the default direction of points (switches) using the "three pronged fork" tool in Surveyor (on the tracks/trackside objects tab). Changing the default direction to the "main" line should sort out many of the problems without the hassle of relaying the track.

The invisible signals should not be a problem for manual operation but you could just delete those that are.

You could be bold and delete the "invisible track" asset but I suspect this will have unforseen consequences.....

HTH

Chris

 

[stagecoach]

It helps if we all knew what route it is? Sometimes extra invisible track is added so that a train does not stop short of where it needs to, but visible track would look wrong or would be in a place that track should not be.

 

[jadebullet]

If the little invisible spurs are near a junction, they are there as a solution to an AI problem. They essencially keep the AI from locking the junction and not letting a train pass them. Set up heavily for AI probably means that it is set up to allow AI operations without the AI being stupid. You can still drive on it.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

Hello back to you guys and thanks for the comments so far. I have printed them out and will have to study them. (I am not a Surveyor type at all)!

First, let me tell you that it's very possible that I am being a little premature here, about these tracks not working, since I am a person who downloads things using dial-up, and it might be possible that I am still missing some important dependency.

The layout is Heartbeat Revisited 2, by Trackplate, who really is the person I have the most routes by. He does them very well. With this one, I think he has gone into extreme complexity with the switching. But at the point I am at right now in downloading, a route is usually driveable.

For instance, there is a five track station at the end of the line called Whitby, and no matter how I set the switches, I can't get a train out of it. I believe the signals are always red, and my train will always derail.

Also, if there is a red signal, even out at a two track country station, the train will always derail. (These red invisible tracks are pointed diagonally to go off the track). I know there are Invisio rails involved, and spline erasers, though I don't know if they are involved with the switching.

Like I said, perhaps I have posted too soon on this, and I am missing some dependencies. If so, I apologize on this one! Bob P.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

(Saturday) ...

Made some more attempts at finding any missing track dependencies last night, and I really believe I haven't missed any......

Well, it's back to Lightrail's original version of Heartbeat 2004 for now, and then slowly working on this "Revisited 2" version. (taking out all the diagonal invisible tracks, unless you guys have a better idea).

But Trackplate's is nicely expanded and has all the stations passenger enabled!

Man, this layout is probably over 200 baseboards....

How about using Trainz Objectz to replace the invisible tracks with something harmless? Ah well, patience is a virtue. Hang in there! Bob P.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

Hello to all again,

I'm going to just let this route sit for a while. I've searched the forums once more, and couldn't find anyone mentioning a similar problem, so perhaps it is my single case. One user said he was having problems loading it. That's about it.

I must say that the creators of all the routes and other wonderful items on the DLS should be thanked very much for all the time and creativity they have put into it for us !!

I'm glad that I've learned enough about Surveyor where I can re-route tracks under a bridge, or replace a station that cannot be made passenger-enabled. Or fix a junction where the track is broken.

So, in a way, this is part of the fun of running Trainz!

PS .. If anybody can tell me if "Inviso_rail" is supposed to be available in the Surveyor track menu (of 2004 SP4), I'd appreciate it. The last few times I looked, it wasn't there. Trainz Objectz had told me I had a duplicate of it, in addition to the built-in, so I deleted it, but have restored it back ... doesn't show.. Thanks much, Bob P.

 

[stagecoach]

Delete all duplicate kuids as they will not show or work in sim. When you are in TO click the map tab then in the small window look for the map you have a problem with and let TO loose on it. It will show all assets you have and also list all the missing bits including any rolling stock.

Edit - have looked at the map and the red invisible track is there to make the signals work in a more realistic way. Without them train arrives at station the signal would be green even if train stops for 5 minutes. With them the signal remains red until train has loaded and is ready to depart. The switch is moved to the main line and signal will go green.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

Hi back to you Stagecoach,

I have deleted the duplicate KUID in Trainz Objectz again and I am hoping things are fine now, thanks.

If you or some other people could help me understand the logic system of this kind of layout... it is not of the usual kind to me.

Usually, in other routes, I place trains all over the place, and jump from train to train, choosing my switches while driving and just continue on in whatever direction I want to go.

In this layout (it seems) I must go switches and switches, miles ahead, setting them properly, for the semaphore I'm at to allow me onward. Otherwise it will derail me right at that semaphore.

Can someone who has this route please try this for me? Find the station named "Whitby", it is an end of the line station with I think 4 or 5 tracks. On my computer, I can only get a green semaphore, (and get the train out of the station) at the track on the extreme right.

If I put a train on any other track, the semaphores will not turn green for me to get out of the station, even if I set the switches way up the line. And it will derail me.

If I can't figure out what the problem is, I'm going to give up temporarily on this route (which really looks high quality to me)... and I'll attempt to "fix" it to the way I like to drive, some cold winter nights..... Best wishes to you all.

Bob P.

 

[stagecoach]

Bob
What you see in driver and what you see in surveyor is the point of this route. All those red lines are used to make the signal work in a more realistic way. In driver you will need to search for the invisible levers that are at the junction of the red invisible tracks, not easy unless you know where they are. Ive just looked at whitby and all works fine. If you are not intending to use AI then check all the red tracks and set the junction lever to the main visible track in surevyor, this will eliminate their use when you drive manualy. You could delete all the red lines and the levers that go with them if you never intent to use AI. Do this with the ones in Whitby and you will see the signals work fine.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

I finally found a thread where Trackplate describes his route... Here should be a link...
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=33434

Here is basically what he said...

"Driveability; This layout is totally set-up for AI operations working from the map, cab users will need to change signalling, points, and the position of speed boards for correct and smooth operations some of the track may also require resetting"....

Trackplate, please, my opinion is, is that you should have put this into the description section of the route on the Download Station!! It really would have saved me much, much, confusion, not to mention stress!!

Right now, I am whipping you with a wet noodle !!!!

The next time you don't warn me, the noodle will not be wet !!!

Stagecoach, I'm just going to slowly delete all those red invisible tracks...... I tried finding and setting the (invisible levers??) like you said, but it is just too much trouble for a novice like me!

Thanks for your good help, everyone! Bob P. :wave:

 

[AnalogOldguy]

By the way ....

By the way ....

I was missing the "junction lever invisible" and also the "stop invisible"

Finally found them, and I can see how the "junction lever invisible" can be set in Surveyor either right or left ...

So those "invisible tracks" won't derail me any more.. (I hope)!!

I've just have to set probably sixty or so of them that are probably in this route! Great route though, I've gotta say!

Cheerio! Robert P.

 

[trackplate]

By the way ....

I was missing the "junction lever invisible" and also the "stop invisible"

Finally found them, and I can see how the "junction lever invisible" can be set in Surveyor either right or left ...

So those "invisible tracks" won't derail me any more.. (I hope)!!

I've just have to set probably sixty or so of them that are probably in this route! Great route though, I've gotta say!

Cheerio! Robert P.

Hi Robert
Pleased to find you found that solution is as stagecoach says, it is totally unnecessary to delete the invisible track if you don’t wish to use the AI drivers simply reset the turnout direction so it is in line with the main track and save the changes
Bob V