Is payware "selfish?"
- Thread starter prre6
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LOL, I was going to say, "Didn't we JUST do this two weeks ago?"
RoysTrainz
Rembrandt van Trainz
Well said Fred
What can i say no more comment I stand for what I do best and feel is fair. I know there are very different opinions out there.
Roy
What can i say no more comment I stand for what I do best and feel is fair. I know there are very different opinions out there.
Roy
Of course payware is selfish, and since when did it become a crime to demand a reward for work you do for your own sake? If I like something and the person who made it demands money for his work, I will pay it if I think it is worth it. If not, I will keep my money and the creator can keep his work. Simple.
Is something morally wrong with this? Or did persons of talent suddenly become obligated to work for the rest of us without reward? If so I didn't get the memo.
And BTW, freeware creators obtain their reward as well. It just isn't money. Probably something private, like a sense of satisfaction, or any one of a million other things that reward their work.
Once one concedes the right of the creator to his own work, one can see nothing wrong in any of this, or any need for justifications, or promises that many hours of work went into whatever was created, or that making the creation was hard, or that the payware is "worth it." I have nothing but respect for both freeware and payware creators and their right to distribute their own work, if they do, as they see fit.
Bernie
Is something morally wrong with this? Or did persons of talent suddenly become obligated to work for the rest of us without reward? If so I didn't get the memo.
And BTW, freeware creators obtain their reward as well. It just isn't money. Probably something private, like a sense of satisfaction, or any one of a million other things that reward their work.
Once one concedes the right of the creator to his own work, one can see nothing wrong in any of this, or any need for justifications, or promises that many hours of work went into whatever was created, or that making the creation was hard, or that the payware is "worth it." I have nothing but respect for both freeware and payware creators and their right to distribute their own work, if they do, as they see fit.
Bernie
I don't know...I used to think payware was selfish, that the people who created it were lazy and arrogant to think that 15 or so hours of work qualifies as being worth $10 bucks or more. Now that i've actually bought a few peices of payware, i can see how the extra detail makes it worth the money. still, (and here comes the part that i might get flamed for) i don't know how all payware qualifies as "good." Personally i think some are better than others. just because it costs money doesn't mean it qualifies as perfect.
Here's my thing. detail to me is important. Usually i'm not terribly bad about it, but the thing i'm a stickler for is steam engines. their my forte, i know them, and if i'm buying one, i expect it to have fidelity to the prototype. that includes looking like the prototype. Call it rivet counting, call it what you want, I'm NOT going to shell out my money for something that doesn't look good or has some other major flaw to the prototype. And all payware steam engines aren't created equal. I'm not naming names, but i'm just saying. Take this for what you will.
there, that's my 2 cents.
Here's my thing. detail to me is important. Usually i'm not terribly bad about it, but the thing i'm a stickler for is steam engines. their my forte, i know them, and if i'm buying one, i expect it to have fidelity to the prototype. that includes looking like the prototype. Call it rivet counting, call it what you want, I'm NOT going to shell out my money for something that doesn't look good or has some other major flaw to the prototype. And all payware steam engines aren't created equal. I'm not naming names, but i'm just saying. Take this for what you will.
there, that's my 2 cents.
A non-issue any way you look at it. I sincerely doubt many if any payware creators make enough to do much more than support their Trainz habit, never mind pay for the hours of work and learning it takes to make their models. Maybe JR does enough business to afford Campbell's soup rather than Ramen noodles but I'd be surprised if they do.
For my part, I'm happy with some thank-yous and the hope that people will use my stuff in routes they'll share with the rest of the community.
Besides, I hate Ramen noodles...
For my part, I'm happy with some thank-yous and the hope that people will use my stuff in routes they'll share with the rest of the community.
Besides, I hate Ramen noodles...
TANSTAAFL!
For those who aren't Robert Heinlein fans and have no clue what Rick said, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Places that offer free lunch get more money out of you other ways, it's not really "free".
Freeware is the same thing, rather than selling it people appear to be giving it away and getting nothing in return - but we always get something in return or we wouldn't do it. Some freeware providers are looking for fawning adoration, but most are simply trading talents. I create a route for Larry Moe and Curly, Larry creates models for me Moe and Curly, Moe reskins Larry's models for me Larry and Curly, Curly creates sessions so all four of us can run Curly's sessions using Moe's repaints of Larry's models on my route. Granted, on the internet there are a lot more people grabbing a free ride than actual contributors, but the principle still stands - freeware creators get other things besides money, we don't actually share our work for "free".
For those who aren't Robert Heinlein fans and have no clue what Rick said, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Places that offer free lunch get more money out of you other ways, it's not really "free".
Freeware is the same thing, rather than selling it people appear to be giving it away and getting nothing in return - but we always get something in return or we wouldn't do it. Some freeware providers are looking for fawning adoration, but most are simply trading talents. I create a route for Larry Moe and Curly, Larry creates models for me Moe and Curly, Moe reskins Larry's models for me Larry and Curly, Curly creates sessions so all four of us can run Curly's sessions using Moe's repaints of Larry's models on my route. Granted, on the internet there are a lot more people grabbing a free ride than actual contributors, but the principle still stands - freeware creators get other things besides money, we don't actually share our work for "free".
All I ever got from anything I put on the DLS were emails from people wanting to know how to use it...
Oh and the emails telling me this was wrong or that was wrong...
And of course the emails from people wanting it changed to their liking...
So you got the satisfaction of knowing that your creations were wanted and used rather than gathering electronic dust on the DLS shelf.
Young Jedi, you must to learn the ways of the witty sarmastic smackdown or the laugidiots mind probe. Do not let the force of the idioside sway you...
I found that "**** off and choke to death" works as well :hehe:
Eaglefan9727
Member
I dont find payware selfish at all.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Judging by the rest of your post, I suspect something is missing here.
I wouldn't go payware myself these days - standards not high enough, too many income tax hassles, getting sacked for "conflict of interest" from £40k job for £250 pocket money etc. However I've bought payware for all three of the big sims though it tends to be either a complete route or loco pack. I would not go down the road of starting to pay for individual scenery items such as trees or houses. Maybe if these were bundled in a large pack of (say) 20 or more assets. That was one thing which put me of Eisenbahn.exe - the extreme micro payware culture where people were selling individual trees for one or two euros. No thank you to that!
Mafe a fair bit...
I have made a fair bit over the few years since I learned to use a creation package and it's all been free, including routes that took several years to put together.
It all downloads well so is getting used but it would be nice to get a 'Thank you' from more than a handful of people for the hours upon hours spent at the keyboard racking my brains about solving problems, that's the only thing that gives me that ich I cannot ever scratch. The pubs I am building right now take days to get together and being retired and disabled I can spent literally all day on the PC.
And because I worry about each piece of content I often get another creator or Trainzer to check them over, moreso lately than in the distant past I admit. Why; because working in a forest you tend not to see individual trees so well and another pair of eyes will soon put you straight, and I will thank that person for that here, a brave step to point out mistakes in another's work.
So from that perspective there are a lot of selfish people out there who grab freeware but can never be bothered to say thanks for all the effort. This of course applies to all freeware creators, not just me.
The difference seems to be for locomotives when a creator will get a lot more feedback that those of us who make static objects. Making any type of rolling stock is beyond my capabilities because I do not know enough about it to even make the attempt, but I admire those that can complete the task both in free and payware and I will say a big 'thank you' right here for all those lovely UK steamers that came out for 2004 that I can still run and enjoy. I don't run 2012 as such so have not downloaded much at all, but I have toddled off and got payware in the past without any consideration that it might be selfish on the creators part to ask a (relatively) small payment for their time and effort.
It must be each creators personal decision whether or not they wish to make a small charge for their models and I have no problem with that decision either way and indeed respect it, something we should all think about doing.
None of these comments are aimed at the original poster who stated clearly they were happy about payware.
My twopennyworth,
Angela
I have made a fair bit over the few years since I learned to use a creation package and it's all been free, including routes that took several years to put together.
It all downloads well so is getting used but it would be nice to get a 'Thank you' from more than a handful of people for the hours upon hours spent at the keyboard racking my brains about solving problems, that's the only thing that gives me that ich I cannot ever scratch. The pubs I am building right now take days to get together and being retired and disabled I can spent literally all day on the PC.
And because I worry about each piece of content I often get another creator or Trainzer to check them over, moreso lately than in the distant past I admit. Why; because working in a forest you tend not to see individual trees so well and another pair of eyes will soon put you straight, and I will thank that person for that here, a brave step to point out mistakes in another's work.
So from that perspective there are a lot of selfish people out there who grab freeware but can never be bothered to say thanks for all the effort. This of course applies to all freeware creators, not just me.
The difference seems to be for locomotives when a creator will get a lot more feedback that those of us who make static objects. Making any type of rolling stock is beyond my capabilities because I do not know enough about it to even make the attempt, but I admire those that can complete the task both in free and payware and I will say a big 'thank you' right here for all those lovely UK steamers that came out for 2004 that I can still run and enjoy. I don't run 2012 as such so have not downloaded much at all, but I have toddled off and got payware in the past without any consideration that it might be selfish on the creators part to ask a (relatively) small payment for their time and effort.
It must be each creators personal decision whether or not they wish to make a small charge for their models and I have no problem with that decision either way and indeed respect it, something we should all think about doing.
None of these comments are aimed at the original poster who stated clearly they were happy about payware.
My twopennyworth,
Angela
colourlight
New member
People like myself are quite happy to take something thats free but when they have to pay for it thats a different story. If a person makes a Trainz item and asks people pay for it is up to them. It,s called "enterprise". I see nothing wrong with that. You do not have to buy it. It,s your choice. It is certainly not being selfish. Funnily enough I bought a pack of Class 66,s once and they were inferior to the free ones I downloaded later.
I have been creating payware for the last few years myself. There is only one thing wrong with that and I am wondering what that could be?
Oh yeah, now I remember, I forgot to charge for my creations. I must be getting old and forgetful, silly me
.
Cheers
VinnyBarb
Oh yeah, now I remember, I forgot to charge for my creations. I must be getting old and forgetful, silly me
.Cheers
VinnyBarb
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