I'm discouraged

John, swapping out the default trucks isn't going to break anybody's game. Most of the rolling stock and locs out there have nice trucks and they work in 04, no? Nobody was suggesting trucks that produced screeches on curves and glints in the sun.

With all due respect, the default bogies do the job but it's the year 2009, not 2004. :) TS09 stands for Trainz Simulator, not Virtual Model Railroading.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.

OK let's change a low poly non animated bogey to a more detailed animated bogey with bigger textures. Looks a lot better but now you've raised the computer requirements to get to a given level of performance. Translation people who had acceptable frame rates before suddenly find that the extra texture size means that Trainz now starts to swap textures into main memory because they've just gone over the limit on their video card memory. Their cpu is having to work harder so that puts the frame rate down, the extra information coming from the hard drive has to go somewhere, if you don't have the extra main memory available then you start swapping memory.

They have been running Trainz for years and may not be in a position to upgrade their systems but you have imposed a need for a hardware upgrade on them.

That's basically the reason you try to avoid doing this type of thing. For many people it will make no difference for some it will have an impact.

Cheerio John
 
Alright, I hope I'm coming across as being nice because I really am trying to. The (often annoying) thing about technology is that it keeps evolving (yes evolving, nobody's reinventing the wheel). Over time, hardware and software must progress and improve. There's absolutely nothing stopping one from using their current configuration. But if software is limited by it's target audience's hardware then there will be almost no room for improvement. TS09 wouldn't be what it is today if Auran had built that with 2001 hardware in mind.

For example, I've yet to come across anybody who is able to run Crysis and Far Cry 2 on a 24 inch widescreen at maximum settings.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.
 
Alright, I hope I'm coming across as being nice because I really am trying to. The (often annoying) thing about technology is that it keeps evolving (yes evolving, nobody's reinventing the wheel). Over time, hardware and software must progress and improve. There's absolutely nothing stopping one from using their current configuration. But if software is limited by it's target audience's hardware then there will be almost no room for improvement. TS09 wouldn't be what it is today if Auran had built that with 2001 hardware in mind.

For example, I've yet to come across anybody who is able to run Crysis and Far Cry 2 on a 24 inch widescreen at maximum settings.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.

If you add new assets that require more resources you don't hit the problem. The existing users see no change the ones with higher end machines use the good stuff.

The really tricky bit is rating the stuff so you know what's good and what isn't. In some ways TC3 is doing an excellent job because it's assets and add ons are all high quality.

Cheerio John
 
I'll have two penath of this one please,
.............I see TRS2004 a bit like smoking.
More and more people are trying to give it up, but they just can't kick the habit.
They know it's bad for them, but it's so darn good and comforting they can't resist going back to it.

And in a way TRS2004 is the same, it is bad for them, in that it is holding everything back, because it is essayer to build content in 04 than it is with 09 lets say,
But 04 has gone as far as it can go.

If you want to go bigger, better, stronger, faster, you have got to upgrade, even though at times it doesn’t seam that way.
But as this is a massive evolutionary community affair, you can't just start from scratch.

What I think the lads at Auran are trying to do is, slowly wean everybody off using the older stuff.
I know it will be cold turkey now, but the end result will be worth it.
I also know that there are a lot of issues with 09,……. But then,…….No pain, no gain!!!

That should ruffle a few feathers.:o

Jonathan
 
I'll have two penath of this one please,
.............I see TRS2004 a bit like smoking.
More and more people are trying to give it up, but they just can't kick the habit.
They know it's bad for them, but it's so darn good and comforting they can't resist going back to it.

And in a way TRS2004 is the same, it is bad for them, in that it is holding everything back, because it is essayer to build content in 04 than it is with 09 lets say,
But 04 has gone as far as it can go.

If you want to go bigger, better, stronger, faster, you have got to upgrade, even though at times it doesn’t seam that way.
But as this is a massive evolutionary community affair, you can't just start from scratch.

What I think the lads at Auran are trying to do is, slowly wean everybody off using the older stuff.
I know it will be cold turkey now, but the end result will be worth it.
I also know that there are a lot of issues with 09,……. But then,…….No pain, no gain!!!

That should ruffle a few feathers.:o

Jonathan

No ruffled feathers here. ;) I agree there comes a time when we have to move on to something new and leave the older stuff on the rusty siding. Having been in the computer industry for over 25 years, I've seen many changes, which I've spoken about in the forums.

If people stayed with green and orange (pumpkin) colored CRTs, and didn't even consider a GUI and high speed graphics, we wouldn't have anything close to what we have now, let alone at home. It really wasn't until pretty recently that we've actually had the capabilities to actually use a program such as this in our own home. 12 years ago, this hardware, or its equivalent in the day, was only available in university and corporate R&D centers mostly due to the cost.

The other thing too is do we really know what Auran is working on? They maybe working on a new product, a better Trainz version perhaps, than we have now. What happens in their R&D lab is not privy to us and shouldn't be because all they'd need is a lurker to steal the information and spread it out to the the competitors. In my not so recent past, I worked for a small company that manufactured some really interesting stuff. These projects eventually became products. The other thing too is the company was very small and the larger companies were quite surprised when they were released to the market.

I can understand the frustrations with the new product, but instead of fighting and expecting more, go with the flow. So far I have had good results with TS2009. My only real complaint is the draw distance is reduced in Driver mode and doesn't have the depth as seen in Surveyor. Now I'm using the program in compatiliblty mode at this time, and it works fine for me. In fact the screen shots I posted recently were done in TS2009 in compatilbity mode. The native mode is nice for performance, but in due time hopefully the assets will be straightened out.

There is little stutter and the performance is quite nice. I like the way the signals light up the way they do now. The AI act alot better than they did before. In fact I think the overall product is smarter acting and probably due to the underlying changes more than what's visible to us.

What else can I say? I like Trainz because it gives the pleasure of building and enjoying my own environment away from the hubub and roughness that we deal with every day. Trainz also gives me the model railroading pleasure that I used to have with a physcial model in a virtual mode. Sadly I can no longer assemble models nor successfully maintain a physical layout due to my neuro-muscular condition. The N-Scale layout that I love so much has sadly been packed away in plastic crates. This happened after I was dropping more things than I was handling. If only I could have the best of both worlds. The physical layout with the unlimited space and the ability to sit in the driver's seat at the same time.

John
 
I tend to agree with the philosophy that we should move on to achieve higher technology. However, Auran keeps starting and stopping. Coming out with a new products every 2-3 years makes it difficult for the users. I'm sure my view is from the user viewpoint and I'm equally sure Auran has an entirely different viewpoint. Neither is necessarily wrong, just different. In this post I have read several different and interesting views. I don't know if Auran reads the posts but it's good to hear from the users.

Earl
 
I tend to agree with the philosophy that we should move on to achieve higher technology. However, Auran keeps starting and stopping. Coming out with a new products every 2-3 years makes it difficult for the users. I'm sure my view is from the user viewpoint and I'm equally sure Auran has an entirely different viewpoint. Neither is necessarily wrong, just different. In this post I have read several different and interesting views. I don't know if Auran reads the posts but it's good to hear from the users.

Earl

Earl,

I understand your viewpoint as an end-user of a unique produce such as this that requires intimate invovlement of the user community.

The changing course is nothing new in SDL. It's a way of life. A concept is presented to the development team, and then the process begins. Changes happen in the interim and things are added or removed. In our case because of the close end-user involvement, we are caught in the full cycle instead of just waiting for the new product to appear on the shelf such as the way things happen with Microsoft or Adobe.

I think that as TS2009 or TSx develops, the process will settle down a bit. Again we don't know what Auran is doing at this point in the process. With the current SP2, TS2009 is a pretty stable product as far as I can tell. I've had no problems installing and the performance is even better than it was before.

John
 
John, swapping out the default trucks isn't going to break anybody's game. Most of the rolling stock and locs out there have nice trucks and they work in 04, no? Nobody was suggesting trucks that produced screeches on curves and glints in the sun.

With all due respect, the default bogies do the job but it's the year 2009, not 2004. :) TS09 stands for Trainz Simulator, not Virtual Model Railroading.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.

There was a replacement SW7 bogie someone made on www.uslw.net.

Joshua
 
I'll have two penath of this one please,
.............I see TRS2004 a bit like smoking.
More and more people are trying to give it up, but they just can't kick the habit.
They know it's bad for them, but it's so darn good and comforting they can't resist going back to it.

What I think the lads at Auran are trying to do is, slowly wean everybody off using the older stuff.
I know it will be cold turkey now, but the end result will be worth it.
I also know that there are a lot of issues with 09,……. But then,…….No pain, no gain!!!
That's exactly what they're trying to do....remember how many service patches it took to get 04 running decent.....we only got one for 06. I think they are serious about getting 09 to run right....:cool:
 
The idea of TS09 WBS was for content creators not users, that was to be EE, this did not go as planed as we content creators needed a lot more time. Also remember Auran had a big finical loss do to a failed MMO. If Auran came out with a new system for content that made all the old content unusable everyone would be complaining like crazy. TS09 has lower hardware requirements than TRS04/06, you just have to have a newer video card. I am now only making content for 09 as I can now use the detail level that was not possible before.
 
The idea of TS09 WBS was for content creators not users, that was to be EE, this did not go as planed as we content creators needed a lot more time. Also remember Auran had a big finical loss do to a failed MMO. If Auran came out with a new system for content that made all the old content unusable everyone would be complaining like crazy. TS09 has lower hardware requirements than TRS04/06, you just have to have a newer video card. I am now only making content for 09 as I can now use the detail level that was not possible before.

This is a go example that Whitepass has brought out, it’s one more small step forward, and this could have a good follow no effect to other content creators that are still hanging on to TRS2004.
There is no doubt in My mind that, TRS2009 has improved a lot and I fully agree with John, and the draw distance problem, I really do hope they sort this one out, it would be the icing on the cake for me. As for native mode I think TRS2009 has made some good in roads, but I see this still as an on going project more for TRSX than for 09, but then compatibility mode is pretty good anyway as it is now.

The fact is, progress is s….l…o….w.
It’s the nature of the game, and it always will be.

It’s like an udder powered shutter pulling too many wagons, it needs to gather momentum before it can tackle even the smallest of gradients.
 
What I hope Auran are up to,

Designing TrsX so that it will only accept content that 09 will accept in its native mode, in other words only content that is of a reasonable high quality and error free, mainly error free.
Yes it means leaving a lot of content behind, but who said you have to uninstall 04~06 :confused:

Computers have come a long way since Trainz was released, how many people nowadays download all the one poly, 2d buildings to use in the background, those have been left behind and I don't think a lot of people even realised :hehe:

A line needs to be drawn and any content that does not make the grade should be left behind, and I think that 09's native mode criteria for content is as good a line as any, imho this is the only way to take trainz to the next level.

My wishful thinking for the future of trainz, 64bit and multi-platform, but I haven't got 6 or 7 million to throw at Auran.

Cheers David
 
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