I Finally Erased RailWorks
- Thread starter boleyd
- Start date
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
if you can do it too then why do you say it has no draw distance? it either does or it doesn't...
obviously the system is going to change the maximum display based on how many things it has to draw at once, but they key here is to use GOOD content that doesn't needlessly consume resources.
obviously the system is going to change the maximum display based on how many things it has to draw at once, but they key here is to use GOOD content that doesn't needlessly consume resources.
If the objective is to avoid using stuff that needlessly consumes resources they should reprogram TADDaemon.exe to stay the hell out of the way until it's needed.
Took a quick surf at UKtrainsim in the new RW (whatever it's called now) 2013 forum, usually full of polite Pollyannas, precocious puppies, pretty ponies, precious posies and Derek's biscuits (tee hee hee), but now they're hollering about the update breaking all the existing freeware by eliminating or relocating old default stuff. I thought the main excuse for not fixing the AI and dispatcher was it might break existing scenarios, and here they broke most existing scenarios including payware ones? Did I miss a memo, and this means they're intending to finally fix the AI after all?
Took a quick surf at UKtrainsim in the new RW (whatever it's called now) 2013 forum, usually full of polite Pollyannas, precocious puppies, pretty ponies, precious posies and Derek's biscuits (tee hee hee), but now they're hollering about the update breaking all the existing freeware by eliminating or relocating old default stuff. I thought the main excuse for not fixing the AI and dispatcher was it might break existing scenarios, and here they broke most existing scenarios including payware ones? Did I miss a memo, and this means they're intending to finally fix the AI after all?
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
as someone who has been interfacing with TADD lately in programming, i can tell you it doesn't do anything until it is needed.
Hee-hee, well SOMETHING is doing SOMETHING, I run TS2010 in a window with task manager open to processes with the most CPU usage at the top, every time I get that 3 to 10 second "pause" I look at TADDaemon and it's popped up near or to the top, anywhere from 10% to 50%.
If it's not doing anything why does it need 133 megs of RAM and 20% of the CPU cycles?
If it's not doing anything why does it need 133 megs of RAM and 20% of the CPU cycles?
I guess it depends how you define 'needed', but it must be 'needed' a lot - it runs almost constantly and really chews huge holes in perfomance. I recently did exactly what Snipe has done and ran the sim with taskmanager on top and Snipe's experience is exactly mine. The 'demon' appears to get computer rescources in preference to the sim. It's rescources spike and the sim stops dead. I'd really like to know just exactly what 'the demon' is and what it does...
From what I've been told it's some kind of new asset manager that replaced a bunch of different little asset managers, altho trainzutil.exe occasionally pops up in the processes as well, particularly when the program freezes completely forcing a reboot. TS2009 SP4 introduced the Daemon (Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here) and I was gonna do a head to head performance comparison with TS2009 SP3 (last version without it) but all versions of TS2009 up to and including SP3 were so hopelessly broken I couldn't get any of my usual benchmark routes or sessions working at all in anything earlier than SP4.
Anyway back on topic, what was the topic? Oh yeah, all hands abandon Railworks, every man for himself and devil take the hindmost, women and children will have to look out for themselves. Warts and all I'm stuck with Trainz simply because the ugly old clunker has the operational capabilities I need from a train simulator, none of the others do.
Anyway back on topic, what was the topic? Oh yeah, all hands abandon Railworks, every man for himself and devil take the hindmost, women and children will have to look out for themselves. Warts and all I'm stuck with Trainz simply because the ugly old clunker has the operational capabilities I need from a train simulator, none of the others do.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
without the daemon trainz would not be able to load anything at all from the database. that is what it does, along with some other small tasks. Trainz Asset Database Daemon - meaning the go between to the trainz database. when trainz does not call the database it isnt doing anything. so what i said stands. if your particular machine happens to be outdated and requires multiple trips to the database for your toys you cannot blame that on the daemon, doing what it is supposed to do. you cant really say it gets resources in preference to the sim because it is feeding the sim all the items it is using. if your trainz program freezes momentarily when it does that, it is because it is unable to do it fast enough to keep the game going! now i do recall some cases long ago where it could get stuck and suck up a lot of cpu, (bugs) but i have not heard or experienced any instances of this when the software is up to date. i run 3 copies of TS12 and 2 copies of TS10, none of them suffer from problems in that area.
i will try to explain as simple as possible, if you are in surveyor like the above image, and you open that spline tab the daemon has to populate that tab with items to select, the time this takes depends on how much garbage- er content you have there. so that is one of the times it is needed. if any of those assets are new or modified and have not been validated, trainzutil will also activate and might take even longer to populate the list, but that only happens once unless an asset changes. those things might be slightly annoying on the first go-round but trust me when i say you need them. this takes quite a load off the core program to do other things, like runtime calculations for trains. once the freezing on opening tabs happens for me i dont ever have issues again until i install or modify something else. far as i am aware on my system i only ever notice this in surveyor, and the route selection menu, and only when some content has to be validated.
I am not poking fun at anyone, but iirc (here and other forums) you both have said you run outdated hardware.
i will try to explain as simple as possible, if you are in surveyor like the above image, and you open that spline tab the daemon has to populate that tab with items to select, the time this takes depends on how much garbage- er content you have there. so that is one of the times it is needed. if any of those assets are new or modified and have not been validated, trainzutil will also activate and might take even longer to populate the list, but that only happens once unless an asset changes. those things might be slightly annoying on the first go-round but trust me when i say you need them. this takes quite a load off the core program to do other things, like runtime calculations for trains. once the freezing on opening tabs happens for me i dont ever have issues again until i install or modify something else. far as i am aware on my system i only ever notice this in surveyor, and the route selection menu, and only when some content has to be validated.
I am not poking fun at anyone, but iirc (here and other forums) you both have said you run outdated hardware.
jjanmarine3
Active member
I only run trainz, so I can't talk about other programs, but trainz seems to have found a happy medium for high and low spec systems, if one is lucky enough to be able to afford the best available system one can expect the best performance I guess. I am happy with my system and can only try and save some bucks to get the best available...and not long after that the best is replaced by better 
Which is, I believe, exactly where Dick started this thread!
In all fainess though Trainz is better than an 'ugly old clunker'. It does what it does pretty well - for the most part very well! I have loved Surveyor for years and I would not know how to begin to count the hours that have been spent utterly enraptured by creating routes. On the other hand 'Driver' is something I pretty much use only for screenshots, in fact (I should probably hang my head in shame!) I'm damned if I can really see the appeal in driving pretend trains on pretend routes, about all I ever do in Driver is set something running and hit '3' on the keyboard and sit back and watch the train roll by...
On the Railworks thing (speaking of where Dick started this) I am not qualified to comment. I do own a boxed copy of R'works, but I have never acually gotten around to installing it! MSTS is the only other sim I have actually got to using, and the best thing I can say for that is that the install disks did excellent duty as coasters.....
To each his/her own I guess, but for me Trainz pretty much works and works well - at least it works as well as I need it to work...
Andy...
Mine is no Cray, but it is way over min specs, the old clunker unit got scrapped 12 months ago. Anyway the issues I have with the demon are not in Surveyor but in Driver. Since I went to an SSD for Trainz the opening-menu-lag thing in surveyor is so close to nothing it doesn't matter (and subsequent openings are instant), it's when the demon starts running in Driver it just sucks the cpu dry. And is isn't loading new assets, or at least it does not appear to be tied to significant screen changes. I expect a slow down, stutter, stall, whatever where the assets list changes dramatically, but taddaemon (or whatever) just seems to take it into it's head to run NOW, no matter what else is going on. Every time it starts, huge CPU spike, huge stall in-game. It is much worse in TS12 than 10, which is one of the main reasons TS10 is my platform of choice and TS12 is uninstalled...
Well, that's what fries me;
Operating System: Windows XP Media Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3
Model: Dell DXP051
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.40GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2GB Crucial Ballistix
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GT430 1GB
Sound: SB Audigy
Hard Drives:
C:Western Digital WD5000AAKX-001CA0 462.0 GB 7200rpm
F:SanDisk SDSSDH120GG25 114.5 GB solid state drive
CPU meets minimums, everything else is at or better than recommended specs.
I'm running off the solid state drive and it's STILL horrible, even when I'm not changing tabs - move the camera over a few yards, PAUSE start to stretch out a spline PAUSE select another asset from the same menu PAUSE turn right to look at something else PAUSE take hands off keyboard and mouse to pick my nose for a minute PAUSE it has to consult the database to see what's in my NOSE?! Start driver and it takes 1 to 2 minutes before everything loads even from the SSD - would an SSD less than a year old be wearing out? It seems like it's a lot worse now than it was when I got the SSD, but being senile I can't remember for sure, can't even remember how long I've had it. Anyway cruising along at 40FPS PAUSE stop the train and look to the left PAUSE here comes an AI train PAUSE what is it doing, looking on the download station for those trees PAUSE don't this thing have a local cache PAUSE whatever it is it's irritating as hell.
Anyway, back to the topic:
"On the Railworks thing (speaking of where Dick started this) I am not qualified to comment"
I am, I got railsim in October 2007, finished the last MSTS version of Port Ogden & Northern and proceeded to start the railsim version of Port Ogden & Northern. Which the developers used at a 2008 game show in the UK to demonstrate what was possible with user created content. I made a couple other routes, did some reskins and hacks, including cabview lighting effects, then went to Railworks when that came out and did more routes including Chicago Metro. Which was easier to build in Railworks and looked a lot better, but once it was done it was completely, totally, and hopelessly impossible to even fake the kind of AI traffic you need for Chicago railroading. Phil Skene, Mike10, Justin, and a few others mentioned some of the potential of Trainz AI traffic, so here I am now. Having lived and breathed and developed for the other two trainsims for 9 years I think I am qualified to have an opinion on the difference, and after 2 1/2 years of Trainz my opinion is it ain't pretty and waddles along instead of running smoothly, but it's a lot more versatile for simulating railroad operations than the other two.
Operating System: Windows XP Media Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3
Model: Dell DXP051
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.40GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2GB Crucial Ballistix
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GT430 1GB
Sound: SB Audigy
Hard Drives:
C:Western Digital WD5000AAKX-001CA0 462.0 GB 7200rpm
F:SanDisk SDSSDH120GG25 114.5 GB solid state drive
CPU meets minimums, everything else is at or better than recommended specs.
I'm running off the solid state drive and it's STILL horrible, even when I'm not changing tabs - move the camera over a few yards, PAUSE start to stretch out a spline PAUSE select another asset from the same menu PAUSE turn right to look at something else PAUSE take hands off keyboard and mouse to pick my nose for a minute PAUSE it has to consult the database to see what's in my NOSE?! Start driver and it takes 1 to 2 minutes before everything loads even from the SSD - would an SSD less than a year old be wearing out? It seems like it's a lot worse now than it was when I got the SSD, but being senile I can't remember for sure, can't even remember how long I've had it. Anyway cruising along at 40FPS PAUSE stop the train and look to the left PAUSE here comes an AI train PAUSE what is it doing, looking on the download station for those trees PAUSE don't this thing have a local cache PAUSE whatever it is it's irritating as hell.
Anyway, back to the topic:
"On the Railworks thing (speaking of where Dick started this) I am not qualified to comment"
I am, I got railsim in October 2007, finished the last MSTS version of Port Ogden & Northern and proceeded to start the railsim version of Port Ogden & Northern. Which the developers used at a 2008 game show in the UK to demonstrate what was possible with user created content. I made a couple other routes, did some reskins and hacks, including cabview lighting effects, then went to Railworks when that came out and did more routes including Chicago Metro. Which was easier to build in Railworks and looked a lot better, but once it was done it was completely, totally, and hopelessly impossible to even fake the kind of AI traffic you need for Chicago railroading. Phil Skene, Mike10, Justin, and a few others mentioned some of the potential of Trainz AI traffic, so here I am now. Having lived and breathed and developed for the other two trainsims for 9 years I think I am qualified to have an opinion on the difference, and after 2 1/2 years of Trainz my opinion is it ain't pretty and waddles along instead of running smoothly, but it's a lot more versatile for simulating railroad operations than the other two.
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Although not related to the passing and funeral for RailWorks it is interesting to see the comments on the TADD thing. I agree its the thing that gets stuff from storage. What find very interesting is that an SSD DOES NOT make a big difference with stutters/pauses. I almost bought one for that reason. To me it appears that the priority granted to the TADD hickey is too high., or the linkage to the queuing code that passes the stuff to the main program is faulty. I can easily tell if I am going to get stutters somewhere. I just pan the camera around, forcing data load, and stutters happen. The only other program that I now use, Lockheed Martin's P3D (old FSX) pans very smoothly. I am guessing that the horrible stuttering is a fixable item and may take some effort to recode the either the acquisition of the data or its queuing to the main program. Thanks for the SSD info. I saved money and shocking disappointment.
I have to admit that I am disrespectful since I no longer visit the grave of RailWorks aka, the RailSimulations page on Facebook.:wave:
I have to admit that I am disrespectful since I no longer visit the grave of RailWorks aka, the RailSimulations page on Facebook.:wave:
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
According to sniper297, the reason that TADDaemon causes quite a few stutters is actually because of it's network capabilities.
Shane
Shane
Wandering off topic, but i wouldn't write off the benefits of an SSD!
I have two installs of TS10/44088 on my system. My 'Working' copy is a huge, fat and very very content heavy install. It has every asset i think I might ever use. My 'Proving' copy is used only to verify non-DLS content and is as lean as I can make it, it contains built-in content plus ONLY the DLS/3rd Party content for my current route.
The 'Working' copy is on an SSD. The 'Proving' copy is on a standard drive. Both drives are dedicated, they contain nothing but the TS10 install. The OS is on its own dedicated SSD. All three disks have identically sized page files. The performance of the 'fat' TS10 install on the SSD absolutely kills the lean, mean install on the traditional HD. It is faster, smoother, and imho the best Trainz investment I ever made....
Andy
I have two installs of TS10/44088 on my system. My 'Working' copy is a huge, fat and very very content heavy install. It has every asset i think I might ever use. My 'Proving' copy is used only to verify non-DLS content and is as lean as I can make it, it contains built-in content plus ONLY the DLS/3rd Party content for my current route.
The 'Working' copy is on an SSD. The 'Proving' copy is on a standard drive. Both drives are dedicated, they contain nothing but the TS10 install. The OS is on its own dedicated SSD. All three disks have identically sized page files. The performance of the 'fat' TS10 install on the SSD absolutely kills the lean, mean install on the traditional HD. It is faster, smoother, and imho the best Trainz investment I ever made....
Andy
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Yeah, I copied Silent Hunter IV and Oblivion over to the SSD to check it out, both load faster and have no pauses or stuttering at all on the SSD. Forgot to mention the internet, since I got Trainz back in the spring of 2010 the two things that have NOT changed are the motherboard and the ISP.
375 watt ps / 550 watt ps
Pentium D 2.8 / Pentium D 3.4
1gb RAM / 2gb RAM
Nvidia 8400GS 512mb / Nvidia GT430 1024mb
SigmaTel Audio / Soundblaster audigy
Maxtor 6L160M0 / WD500 - SSD
Just the change from the Maxtor to the Western Digital made a whopping difference for most games that load files from disk, since it has twice the hardware cache and lower seek times. One exception was Trainz, no improvement. My ISP is AT&T DSL (charter cable cranked the price up to $50 per month a few years ago, which won't fit in the budget) and that gets a max of 68kBps when it's in a good mood. So if the theory that TADDaemon checks the internet during its file hunt is correct, that would explain why one guy says there are no pauses, a guy with an identical system gets frequent pauses, and nobody thought to check that the first guy has cable broadband while the second guy is on a cheapskate DSL or even dialup.
375 watt ps / 550 watt ps
Pentium D 2.8 / Pentium D 3.4
1gb RAM / 2gb RAM
Nvidia 8400GS 512mb / Nvidia GT430 1024mb
SigmaTel Audio / Soundblaster audigy
Maxtor 6L160M0 / WD500 - SSD
Just the change from the Maxtor to the Western Digital made a whopping difference for most games that load files from disk, since it has twice the hardware cache and lower seek times. One exception was Trainz, no improvement. My ISP is AT&T DSL (charter cable cranked the price up to $50 per month a few years ago, which won't fit in the budget) and that gets a max of 68kBps when it's in a good mood. So if the theory that TADDaemon checks the internet during its file hunt is correct, that would explain why one guy says there are no pauses, a guy with an identical system gets frequent pauses, and nobody thought to check that the first guy has cable broadband while the second guy is on a cheapskate DSL or even dialup.
I have DSL with zero problems. Actually DSL may not have the same download rates as some cable or FO connections, but the rates are more consistent. When people come home at night and start streaming movies and Netflix on a cable modem, the download rates can skid into the dumpster because of high usage.
I guess my question is, if internet communication is what causes TADDaemon to slow your system down, what happens if you shut off your network connection while running Trainz?
Didn't change anything, which is what you would expect if the program is looking for something on the internet - takes a while to find it get a pause, can't find an internet connection and times out, get a pause. As for you having DSL, it comes in many flavors and prices - AT&T packages range from mine (the slowest and cheapest) to 6mbps with various speeds between. My youngest (autistic 23 year old) got a part time job recently so we'll have a little more in the budget, so I might look into how much they want for faster DSL next year (not now, coming into winter heating bill season!) and see if that changes anything. I still think they could do some reprogramming to tweak it.
