HOW DO I SIGNAL THIS ??

E

edion2

New member


IF, I did the Image Shack thing correctly, the diagram should show up above.

This is a double track branching off to another double track line.

Train "T1" is traveling from "A to C" - Junction "J1" is set for "C".

Train "T2" is traveling from "B to A" - Junction "J2" is set against him.

Train "T3" is traveling from "C to A" - Junction "J2" is set for him.

PROBLEM #1 :

IF train "T2" arrives before "T3" and sets junction "J2" for "T2" (against "T3"), AND if train "T1" arrives, The signal "S2" is displaying "green/clear" for train "T1" even after train "T2" has passed signal "S4" . . . COLLISION between "T1" and "T2" !!

I placed the signals "S1" thru "S6" as shown . . . assuming that signal "S2" will stop train "T1" as soon as train "T2" passes signal "S4" and into the intersection . . . but "S2" remains GREEN !! I also thought signal "S4" will stop train "T2" if "T1" passes "S2" first . . . but "S4" remains GREEN !!

I must have missed the lecture in "Double track diverging from Double track". I'm sure I'm doing something wrong or I'm missing something . . .

This is a typical thing that happens in many people's routes.

"T2" and "T3" only stops when the junction is set against them. If "T2" arrives last at the divergence, no problem. BUT if "T2" and "T1" arrives at the divergence around the same time . . . BANG . . . cause they both have "GREEN/CLEAR" at "S2" and "S4".

What is the correct way to set up signals in a double track divergence to protect the intersection ??? Someone has got to have solved this loooooong time ago. I'm a relative newbie learning about signals.

Please . . . point me . . . or rather signal me in the right direction ! :eek: :(

Thanks
 
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Hi Edion2 - welcome to the Trainz Diamond Crossing Dilemma!!!

Trainz has a glitch wherein the alternate routes through a diamond crossing are NOT seen as conflicting.

Numerous 'fixes' have been proposed, but AFAIK none of them are universally successful. A forum search for "Diamond Crossing" (including the "quote marks") will yield numerous threads on the topic....

Andy :)
 
The trigger multiple signals rule can work for you. Place triggers on the track that T2 is on and use the rule to set the S2 to red and S1 to caution when a train is detected by the triggers.
 
Dermmy,

OMG ! ! To call this a "glitch" . . . is like saying "its sprinkling outside" in the middle of a category 5 hurricane !! This is a MAJOR FAUX PAS on the part of the software writers !! Has it always been this way since the first version of Trainz ??? Wow . . . thats all I can say.


stagecoach,
I'll look for that rule on DLS. I'll try to avoid diamond crossings as much as possible in the future. . . but some are necessary.

________

Is there an EVACUATION RULE to evacuate residents in a 2 mile radius in case of collision at a diamond crossing ?? :hehe:
Do we have to wait until Easter to resurrect DEAD DRIVERS ?? :hehe:


I guess its not REALLY PROTOTYPICAL WITHOUT AN OCCASIONAL COLLISION !! :hehe:

Thanks guys.
 
edion2 said:
Dermmy,

OMG ! ! To call this a "glitch" . . . is like saying "its sprinkling outside" in the middle of a category 5 hurricane !! This is a MAJOR FAUX PAS on the part of the software writers !! Has it always been this way since the first version of Trainz ??? Wow . . . thats all I can say.


stagecoach,
I'll look for that rule on DLS. I'll try to avoid diamond crossings as much as possible in the future. . . but some are necessary.

________

Is there an EVACUATION RULE to evacuate residents in a 2 mile radius in case of collision at a diamond crossing ?? :hehe:
Do we have to wait until Easter to resurrect DEAD DRIVERS ?? :hehe:


I guess its not REALLY PROTOTYPICAL WITHOUT AN OCCASIONAL COLLISION !! :hehe:

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
Been there since the commuinty version - funny thing is the trainz just pass through each other like ghosts, do not crash or derail, try a grand union on a tram route - now thats crazy
 
Why not just use 4 left hand switch's in that spot. You would have the same thing but the trains would be able to see each other. I could draw it out for you you but I think you will see what I mean.
 
Diamond Crossing.

Look for the rule 'Diamond Crossing' on the DLS. It allows you to set-up the signals to behave properly. It has two problem...if you have more than one diamond you will have to repeat the rule..and it is session specific. The easiest way to get around the second problem is to set up a template session that you then can use as a start point for other sessions
 
Ok - here's a potential fix with which I have been experimenting. It works (most of the time) and I had planned a bit more experimenting before 'going public' but in an attempt to ease edion2's grief, try this.....

Download atilabarut's 'Wait for Junction Permit' and 'Release Junction' rule pack from the DLS here.

The procedure is to create a junction NOT connected to the route - I place it near the diamond, but bury it a couple of meters below the ground. Give it a name. The theory is that as an AI train approaches the diamond it completes a 'drive via Trackmark' command. The next driver command seeks the junction permit for the 'dummy' junction. If the permit is available, the train proceeds without pause and runs through the diamond. Some distance down the line another 'drive via trackmark' command is followed by the 'Release Junction' command.

All possible approaches to the diamond are protected in this manner. Since only one driver at a time can hold a junction permit, any driver approaching the diamond while Driver 'B' has the permit will come to a stand before entering the diamond.....

It takes a bit of thinking through, but works. Placement of the 'drive via' trackmarks takes a bit of fiddling, but protecting a single diamond is fairly straightforward. Trying to protect complex station approaches with multiple diamonds and slips is a nightmare. I stumbled on this trying to get 'proper' driver behaviour on the western approach to Belen yard on my Clovis Sub route where two double-track main lines cross through several interconnected slips. It ain't working yet.....

Andy :)
 
The reason why the trains are unable to detect each other because the tracks are individually laid. Which means that in theory, a diamond is exactly the same as a track bridging another. In this case, the tracks are just on the same level as each other. This problem can be easily alleviated using custom/ scripted fixed track pieces, as the two crossing tracks are ONE COMPONENT instead of two individual tracks, although I do not know of any.
 
I know it’s an old chestnut and apologies if it has been suggested before but this method for signalling a diamond crossing is simple and works every time (so far anyway!).
Lay the crossing with track A and track B and place the four signals.
Place one trigger on each track as close to the point of intersection as possible.
Use TrainzMap to adjust the radii of the triggers: The circle for Trigger A should extend well beyond the signals on track A whereas the circle for Trigger B should pass just behind the two track B signals. (This is most important and is what makes this arrangement work under all circumstances)
Now use the Trigger Multiple Signal rule to link Trigger A with the two track B signals and Trigger B with the two track A signals.
And that’s it.
This arrangement can never lead to a collision or to a hang-up (where both trains are stopped). If two trains approach at roughly the same time, the one on track A will have priority over the one on track B. To ensure that it works under these circumstances, the distance between each track A signal and the Trigger A circle should be equal to or greater that the stopping distance of trains using track A.
I originally used this arrangement to signal a section where a SG and a NG track merge to a length of dual gauge track and then diverge again – and realised that this is identical in practice to a diamond crossing.
 
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K I have several of these crossings on routes and first of all
trigger signal rule works great I know diamond rule is suppose to be good but harder to set up and align in a lotta cases at least in 2006

second signals S2 is good use a 02 type........
signal S4 is good use a 04 type
siganl s6 is good use a 04 type
remove the others cause theyre gonna give you a yellow or green due to
the S2 ,4 6 that follow...........
Why 04 and 02 some may wonder ?
I found theyre more effective in stopping the trains than allowing the coast through effect you get with 03 and 05 in these situations......
Should be fine after..........
Place 2 triggers 1 after S2 after the jct point and the other just after signal S6............trains will stop!........dont forget to name each signal and trigger in that area of control...........
 
Wow, some options to pick from. . . Gotta try them.

Good to know that there are solutions to this problem. :)
 
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