how difficult to replace all speedtrees
- Thread starter steamed
- Start date
Just a little info for you here. On my machine Speedtrees are a lower drain on resources and run better than what you may call regular trees. I have places where up to 7500 trees are shown on the statistics as being visible.
Other people have different experiences which comes down to hardware, OS, software, Drivers differences. You may replace them which is easy to do but the result may be opposite of what you desire.
Other people have different experiences which comes down to hardware, OS, software, Drivers differences. You may replace them which is easy to do but the result may be opposite of what you desire.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Speedtrees have a separate optimised rendering engine for tree display which does not use the Auran Jet engine.
Tomshardware notes that games that use directX 11 use less cpu resources and more GPU resources than those such as Trainz that are direct X 9.
In other words it would not be unexpected to see better performance if you replace the conventional trees with speedtrees.
Cheerio John
Tomshardware notes that games that use directX 11 use less cpu resources and more GPU resources than those such as Trainz that are direct X 9.
In other words it would not be unexpected to see better performance if you replace the conventional trees with speedtrees.
Cheerio John
Wonderful answers to the wrong question. "Would I see a performance benefit if speedtrees were replaced with older trees", many of us have already established that the answer to that question is hell yes. I've cloned some of the default routes and painstakingly deleted every last speedtree and replaced with older trees, and got a dramatic framerate increase. On my system;
Model: Dell DXP051
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2046MB RAM
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp.080413-2111)
DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT 512.0 MB
NVIDIA Driver Version: 6.14.0012.5721
Sound: SigmaTel Audio
sthda.sys Driver Version: 5.10.4823.0000
Hard Drive: Maxtor 6L160M0 147.8 GB
* McAfee Anti-virus
* McAfee Personal Firewall
Any time I'm looking at speedtrees it's a slideshow. I'm not alone in this, I don't know what the difference is but I get fairly smooth framerates without speedtrees, unplayable framerates with speedtrees.
So the question once again, is there a quick way to get rid of speedtrees?
Model: Dell DXP051
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2046MB RAM
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp.080413-2111)
DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT 512.0 MB
NVIDIA Driver Version: 6.14.0012.5721
Sound: SigmaTel Audio
sthda.sys Driver Version: 5.10.4823.0000
Hard Drive: Maxtor 6L160M0 147.8 GB
* McAfee Anti-virus
* McAfee Personal Firewall
Any time I'm looking at speedtrees it's a slideshow. I'm not alone in this, I don't know what the difference is but I get fairly smooth framerates without speedtrees, unplayable framerates with speedtrees.
So the question once again, is there a quick way to get rid of speedtrees?
I haven't tried this but it should work and will change all spedtrees on every route, but does involve a bit of work...
Clone a tree you like that has the same basic size and shape of the speedtree you want to replace.
If the speedtree is <kuid:123:456> call your clone <Kuid2:123:456:1>
If the speedtree is <kuid2:123:456: (x)> call your clone <kuid2:123:456: (x+1)>
Try it on one or two trees first. If it works do them all. If it works I bet a big bag of jelly beans that the 'fix' gets broken next service pack
FYI while I accept that on paper 10,000 speed trees run smoother than 2 alpha trees, they bring my system to a standstill if there are more than a half dozen in view. Not sure what the issue is here, but it is more than disgruntled old codgers not liking the brave new world...
Andy...
Clone a tree you like that has the same basic size and shape of the speedtree you want to replace.
If the speedtree is <kuid:123:456> call your clone <Kuid2:123:456:1>
If the speedtree is <kuid2:123:456: (x)> call your clone <kuid2:123:456: (x+1)>
Try it on one or two trees first. If it works do them all. If it works I bet a big bag of jelly beans that the 'fix' gets broken next service pack
FYI while I accept that on paper 10,000 speed trees run smoother than 2 alpha trees, they bring my system to a standstill if there are more than a half dozen in view. Not sure what the issue is here, but it is more than disgruntled old codgers not liking the brave new world...
Andy...
No, sorry, that is simply not true, it's not possible to mix and match render contexts like you're implying.
Speedtrees generates meshes that Jet renders, anything else simply wouldn't work.
Thanks for the discussion, everyone.
My aging system can run the "less agressive" routes in 2006 and TC (2007). I've read that 2009 is more efficient than 2006/2007 and that 2010 is an improvement over 2009. Ultimately, what I am trying to figure out is 1) why the huge jump in system requirements for 2010 versus 2009 and 2) is there anything simple that I can do about it (such as delete speedtrees). If not, that answers my third question: 3) should I consider purchasing 2010 for a below-min-spec system.
If all I can do is impliment a simple track plan on a single board using the improved assets, thats fine for now.
My aging system can run the "less agressive" routes in 2006 and TC (2007). I've read that 2009 is more efficient than 2006/2007 and that 2010 is an improvement over 2009. Ultimately, what I am trying to figure out is 1) why the huge jump in system requirements for 2010 versus 2009 and 2) is there anything simple that I can do about it (such as delete speedtrees). If not, that answers my third question: 3) should I consider purchasing 2010 for a below-min-spec system.
If all I can do is impliment a simple track plan on a single board using the improved assets, thats fine for now.
Well, the only parts that really leap are the CPU minimum from a blanket P4 to a Pentium D and the video card from a GeForce 2 to 7200+...
TS2010 fails to run on systems that lack vertex and pixel shaders, whereas earlier versions ran 'ok'. So I'm going to make a guess on the video card requirement and say that it's a requirement of Pixel Shader 3.0, which was actually introduced in the GeForce 6x00 product line, but not all 6x00s had it (it was actually added with the 6600 iirc, but some 6800s had PS2.0). So requiring the lowest spec GeForce 7 that was an actual card makes sense (the 71000s were motherboard graphics, and a few *very* cheap cards that used the same chip, it had terrible performance because the 7100s generally had no dedicated memory at all, even when on a card).
The bump in CPU requirements is a little harder to explain, although the Pentium D was the first widely available dual-core chip from Intel, and we know that TS2010 uses multi-core setups, or at least, claims to. It's perhaps possible that Auran are 'playing it safe' here and asking for all users to have dual-core setups, rather than dealing with the fact that it might run 'ok' on single-core setups, but not consistently 'ok'.
Another option is that it's a requirement of SSE3 - the 'Prescott' Pentium IVs had SSE3, but sadly Intel made it very difficult to differentiate Pentium IV production lines, and so it'd be hard to say 'Pentium IV, but you need one that supports SSE3, which may be 3.0GHz P4s, but not 3.0GHz P4s before this date...', saying 'Pentium D' guarantees that you're talking about a SSE3 enabled chip.
That said, I still think the dual-core aspect is the likely reason, and I would wager that all else being equal, Trainz 2010 would run on a non-Prescott P4 at about 3GHz - probably with very questionable quality of operation in places. But Auran wouldn't be able to officially support such a configuration of course
"Use the "replace assets" function in the surveyor menu."
Tried that, doesn't work. Speedtrees are somehow disabled for the user, so you can't use the "get" button to select them and have them in the list to drag into the replace window. Possibly a KUID replacement in the config.txt would work, do we know the exact numbers for all the speedtrees used in default routes?
Tried that, doesn't work. Speedtrees are somehow disabled for the user, so you can't use the "get" button to select them and have them in the list to drag into the replace window. Possibly a KUID replacement in the config.txt would work, do we know the exact numbers for all the speedtrees used in default routes?
johnwhelan
Well-known member
The content has got more demanding. The same content in TS2009 and TS2010 will give roughly the same performance. The system requirements are simply more realistic.
Cheerio John
Just tried replacing speedtrees and works no problem for me. Now their point of origin is off slightly so you may have to hunt around the tree with the GET button to find the tree you are wanting to replace.
Works for me also. Finding the tree, as stated above, can be somewhat tricky. I usually do it by looking straight down on the tree and aim for the center of the truck with the cursor.
ronconnorssr
Member
Don't know if this helps. Try disabling speedtrees in CM. Then load your route/session and choose "delete missing assets" on the main menu.
Then go back to CM and re-enable them.
Yes you will need to manually place new trees, but then speedtree size compared to your replacement trees would be unpredictable anyway.
Then go back to CM and re-enable them.
Yes you will need to manually place new trees, but then speedtree size compared to your replacement trees would be unpredictable anyway.
Nope. 'Disabling' an asset removes it from the menus, but the item will still appear if a route calls for it. Same applies to 'Archiving'.
Also Nope! The config kuid table is like a ready-reference to what's in the route, but assets are actually placed by the gnd and/or obs files which can't be edited. The presence or absence of an asset in the config kuid table has no influence on the object's appearance in the route...
Andy
Bummer, guess there's no manual hacking then.
"Just tried replacing speedtrees and works no problem for me. Now their point of origin is off slightly so you may have to hunt around the tree with the GET button to find the tree you are wanting to replace."
Not working here, altho it may be groups rather than individual trees. Harbormaster is the one I keep trying it on, I can grab one of these groups with the move tool, I can manually delete any one of the groups, but the GET tool won't select it to tell me what it is regardless of angle or distance or how much time I spend trying to click on each individual leaf. Gotta go get a new mouse now, I wore out another left button.
"Just tried replacing speedtrees and works no problem for me. Now their point of origin is off slightly so you may have to hunt around the tree with the GET button to find the tree you are wanting to replace."
Not working here, altho it may be groups rather than individual trees. Harbormaster is the one I keep trying it on, I can grab one of these groups with the move tool, I can manually delete any one of the groups, but the GET tool won't select it to tell me what it is regardless of angle or distance or how much time I spend trying to click on each individual leaf. Gotta go get a new mouse now, I wore out another left button.
Not disabled just off centre.
Never had any problems replacing Speed Trees using replace assets, just click around the outside the edge of the tree, take a bit of getting used to but can be done.
The offset though, means if you do a replace in reverse as I did, in normal to speed Trees they are all off centre and can appear in the middle of track roads house's etc. good fun eh? Luckily undo did actually work in my case.
The Freeware Ultra Trees are correctly centred so it isn't a problem with them.
Off center by how many miles?
Well, I don't know, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, let's see how much a video is worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RmP6zpck9A
These tree clumps are all over the built in Harbormaster route, can't tell you what they are since I can't select them with the GET OBJECT tool. I can select them with the move, rotate, or elevation tools, grab one of the little culprits and drag it outside the scenery area so I have clear space all around it to click, but regardless of angle, distance, or where I click it don't work.
Well, I don't know, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, let's see how much a video is worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RmP6zpck9A
These tree clumps are all over the built in Harbormaster route, can't tell you what they are since I can't select them with the GET OBJECT tool. I can select them with the move, rotate, or elevation tools, grab one of the little culprits and drag it outside the scenery area so I have clear space all around it to click, but regardless of angle, distance, or where I click it don't work.
raildumper
Awaiting...
I suppose it's the asset called "SpeedTreeGroup_01" (kuid:523:10872)
Open it for editing in content manager, and look for these lines:
privileges
{
permit-listing 0
}
Change 0 to 1, that makes it selectable in Surveyor.
Open it for editing in content manager, and look for these lines:
privileges
{
permit-listing 0
}
Change 0 to 1, that makes it selectable in Surveyor.
Ahh groups, I was thinking individual trees......... As said in the previous post it's a config thing, there are a few groups but they were only there to replace older groups used in built in routes and not recommended for general use for which they were disabled.
I'm sure there was a post by Windwalker about this on here ages ago? I think the reason was a performance hit when using Speedtree groups as opposed to individual ones.