Sorry but you are confused. The tariff, plus any custom duties, is paid by the importing company not the exporter. Once my theoretical product is packaged at the factory and consigned to a shipping agent (including the postal service) it is out of my hands (apart from warranty issues). All costs are then the responsibility of the customer.
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How are Americans supposed to pay the 10% tariff on N3V sales?
- Thread starter johnwhelan
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johnwhelan
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Your biggest export market is Canada, I hadn't noticed any tariffs on US goods here.I was hoping not to get into this, but have you seen the tariffs that other countries have been charging the US ? The tariffs being imposed now by our government are still far less. It needs to happen as we can't keep getting deeper and deeper into the red before an all out collapse.
Cheerio John
Dairy products and lumber are two off the top of my head.Your biggest export market is Canada, I hadn't noticed any tariffs on US goods here.
Cheerio John
johnwhelan
Well-known member
I hadn't noticed we imported any lumber from the US, we do have a fair amount of it ourselves. We could import aluminum from you but your cost of production is much higher than ours even so I don't think we apply tariffs but I could be wrong. I seem to recall Trump saying French in Quebec was a trade barrier. Does this mean extra tariffs on all countries that don't speak English? We do import processed cheese from the US for making pizzas and I don't think that is subject to tariffs.Dairy products and lumber are two off the top of my head.
Cheerio John
Indeed, in the Pacific Northwest, I see plenty of Canadian Lumber coming down by train. A lot of American mills got hit by environmentalist groups blocking every timber sale until they could not stay in business, so now we import lumber.I hadn't noticed we imported any lumber from the US, we do have a fair amount of it ourselves.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Sorry are you in the US or Canada? GST is 5% at the federal level in Canada, additionally the provinces have PST and they are sometimes combined as HST. In Ontario the combined rate is 13%. These are applied to all goods sold in Canada not just imported goods much like VAT is in Europe the nearest the US has is sales tax, in New York you have a number of sales taxes I understand, state ones, county ones and city ones.10% GST on any online purchases from Amazon. That is a tariff. A tax on purchased items. Used to buy DVD's real cheap. Not now.
If you're in the US then GST / HST should not apply to you.
Cheerio John
@johnhelan. I am in Australia.Sorry are you in the US or Canada? GST is 5% at the federal level in Canada, additionally the provinces have PST and they are sometimes combined as HST. In Ontario the combined rate is 13%. These are applied to all goods sold in Canada not just imported goods much like VAT is in Europe the nearest the US has is sales tax, in New York you have a number of sales taxes I understand, state ones, county ones and city ones.
If you're in the US then GST / HST should not apply to you.
Cheerio John
All you have to do is stop buying anything from overseas, Americans comprise 5% of the worlds population, but you are the second biggest exporter with over two trillion worth of income per year, however , you import 3. 2 trillion. Yet, you are only a tiny proportion of the 8 billion folks on the planet. So, it's clear you overspend massively, now no one has ever forced you to send most of your manufacturing jobs overseas, your corporations and businesses did that freely in order to avoid paying decent wages . And your political parties pushed free trade for decades ,again no one forced you guys to repeatedly vote for those policies. You subsidise many items which have given you advantages in many markets since ww2 , for instance Australian farmers receive no subsidies , your farmers receive lots, like E.U.farmers do,I was hoping not to get into this, but have you seen the tariffs that other countries have been charging the US ? The tariffs being imposed now by our government are still far less. It needs to happen as we can't keep getting deeper and deeper into the red before an all out collapse.
The remedy is simple, stop consuming such massive amounts of stuff from overseas , and get your billionaires to pay taxes both in the US and when they sell their crap to us. For instance, in 2018 Musk paid no taxes at all.ow much tax did the US workers on an average wage pay , why can Musk get away with paying no tax , yet the guy on the street has to pay?
You'd swear your country was a persecuted minority , instead of the most powerful and supposedly richest country in the world.
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@johnhelan. I am in australia
Getting back to the original topic - how would the 10% tariff be imposed on American purchasers of TRS22?
With physical products (cars, lumber, cosmetics) it is usually simple. The product is "taxed/tariffed" as it crosses the border and it is paid by the importer. But with modern manufacturing a single product like a car can have parts that cross the borders multiple times before they are added to the finished vehicle. So, for example, a car part may be manufactured in Canada, then sent to the USA for additional processing (e.g. other parts added to it), then sent to Mexico for further work, then back to the USA for more stuff, then back to Mexico before being imported into the USA as a finished car. Each time it crosses a border into the USA it may be subjected to a 20% (or higher) tariff. I say "may" because the exact details can be very difficult to discover.
With digital products it is a trickier question. They have no physical presence and travel via fibre optic networks at very high speed.
So far about 50 countries have imposed taxes/tariffs on digital data. In most cases the company that sells the data to consumers (i.e. the distributor) pays the tax/tariff according to where the data is going - different countries have different rates. The tax/tariff is added onto the price. In the EU, for example, a VAT is added but the exact % varies between countries and can even depend on how many users of that digital product are in that country. As I said above, "it is a trickier question".
This means that the tax/tariff is usually applied at the source and it is the responsibility of that source to record where their data is going and pay accordingly. So N3V may finally have to implement software that determines which country the sales inquiry is coming from, then convert the price from $US to the local currency and add the appropriate tax. It does annoy me that all prices in the Trainz Store are in $US and I have to do the conversion, at the current exchange rate, to $AU.
This also applies to media data from sources such as Google, X (Twitter) and Netflix. Here in Australia it is generally referred to as the "Netflix Tax". These digital media companies have been selling content (e.g. subscriptions) in Australia but often not paying any taxes on those sales. Those that provide local news feeds have been creating their data from local news sources (TV, online media, etc) often without paying the original (local) creators of that news. One or two of these overseas "big data" corporations have announced that they will refuse to pay the Australian tax and the government here has indicated that they may use blocking technology to stop them from selling their data here.
Its complicated!
With physical products (cars, lumber, cosmetics) it is usually simple. The product is "taxed/tariffed" as it crosses the border and it is paid by the importer. But with modern manufacturing a single product like a car can have parts that cross the borders multiple times before they are added to the finished vehicle. So, for example, a car part may be manufactured in Canada, then sent to the USA for additional processing (e.g. other parts added to it), then sent to Mexico for further work, then back to the USA for more stuff, then back to Mexico before being imported into the USA as a finished car. Each time it crosses a border into the USA it may be subjected to a 20% (or higher) tariff. I say "may" because the exact details can be very difficult to discover.
With digital products it is a trickier question. They have no physical presence and travel via fibre optic networks at very high speed.
So far about 50 countries have imposed taxes/tariffs on digital data. In most cases the company that sells the data to consumers (i.e. the distributor) pays the tax/tariff according to where the data is going - different countries have different rates. The tax/tariff is added onto the price. In the EU, for example, a VAT is added but the exact % varies between countries and can even depend on how many users of that digital product are in that country. As I said above, "it is a trickier question".
This means that the tax/tariff is usually applied at the source and it is the responsibility of that source to record where their data is going and pay accordingly. So N3V may finally have to implement software that determines which country the sales inquiry is coming from, then convert the price from $US to the local currency and add the appropriate tax. It does annoy me that all prices in the Trainz Store are in $US and I have to do the conversion, at the current exchange rate, to $AU.
This also applies to media data from sources such as Google, X (Twitter) and Netflix. Here in Australia it is generally referred to as the "Netflix Tax". These digital media companies have been selling content (e.g. subscriptions) in Australia but often not paying any taxes on those sales. Those that provide local news feeds have been creating their data from local news sources (TV, online media, etc) often without paying the original (local) creators of that news. One or two of these overseas "big data" corporations have announced that they will refuse to pay the Australian tax and the government here has indicated that they may use blocking technology to stop them from selling their data here.
Its complicated!
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Tariffs Protect Local Industries and Employment:
This really is a false argument.
Example 1: For decades upto the 1980s my country had tariff protection on all sorts of imports to protect local manufacturers. The result was that the locally produced goods were expensive (because the labour was expensive) and of poorer quality (due to lack of competition) than those you could buy overseas.
Clothing was a particular thorny issue. During the 1950s and 60s I remember my mother making many of the clothes for my sisters and I because the locally produced stuff was just too expensive and the imported stuff was just not an option. Australians who could afford to travel overseas during those protectionist years often came back with suitcases stuffed full of cheaper and better quality clothing bought on their trip.
In the 1980s a change of government finally brought some sanity to all this. They signed Free Trade Agreements (no tariffs) with a number of countries (it is now upto 15, the USA being one of them). These agreements opened up the Australian market to overseas products and manufacturers. The shop price of many items (including clothing) went down and the quality went up. We saw products on the store shelves that we had never seen before because the protected local manufacturers did not want to make them.
Yes, some manufacturing businesses disappeared because they could not compete in a fair market. People lost jobs but retail boomed and more jobs were created there. Some manufacturers survived by going for niche markets and improving the quality of their products. Some are still manufacturing locally today. Others survived by moving their production to cheaper countries.
Example 2: In 2013 President Obama implemented tariff protection on the American automobile industry to "protect American jobs and industries". The result was that American consumers were forced to buy cars that were more expensive than the same/similar model from overseas. The locally made cars were more expensive to run (they were less fuel efficient "gas guzzlers") and more polluting than the foreign versions.
Example 3: In 2024 President Biden slapped a 100% tariff on Chinese made EVs, again to "protect American jobs and industries". The most popular Chinese EV, which would have sold for $US30,000 was now selling for $US60,000 well above the average $US50,000 for a US made EV. The Chinese EVs were, and still are, far more efficient and have more features than the US made EVs. US buyers of locally made EVs are being "ripped off", not by other countries (as is it often claimed in the current tariff debate) but by their own government and inefficient manufacturers. That "protection" comes at a price that is ultimately paid by the consumers.
It is ironic, that the land that worships the principles of "free enterprise" has to resort to "protectionism".
My thoughts.
This really is a false argument.
Example 1: For decades upto the 1980s my country had tariff protection on all sorts of imports to protect local manufacturers. The result was that the locally produced goods were expensive (because the labour was expensive) and of poorer quality (due to lack of competition) than those you could buy overseas.
Clothing was a particular thorny issue. During the 1950s and 60s I remember my mother making many of the clothes for my sisters and I because the locally produced stuff was just too expensive and the imported stuff was just not an option. Australians who could afford to travel overseas during those protectionist years often came back with suitcases stuffed full of cheaper and better quality clothing bought on their trip.
In the 1980s a change of government finally brought some sanity to all this. They signed Free Trade Agreements (no tariffs) with a number of countries (it is now upto 15, the USA being one of them). These agreements opened up the Australian market to overseas products and manufacturers. The shop price of many items (including clothing) went down and the quality went up. We saw products on the store shelves that we had never seen before because the protected local manufacturers did not want to make them.
Yes, some manufacturing businesses disappeared because they could not compete in a fair market. People lost jobs but retail boomed and more jobs were created there. Some manufacturers survived by going for niche markets and improving the quality of their products. Some are still manufacturing locally today. Others survived by moving their production to cheaper countries.
Example 2: In 2013 President Obama implemented tariff protection on the American automobile industry to "protect American jobs and industries". The result was that American consumers were forced to buy cars that were more expensive than the same/similar model from overseas. The locally made cars were more expensive to run (they were less fuel efficient "gas guzzlers") and more polluting than the foreign versions.
Example 3: In 2024 President Biden slapped a 100% tariff on Chinese made EVs, again to "protect American jobs and industries". The most popular Chinese EV, which would have sold for $US30,000 was now selling for $US60,000 well above the average $US50,000 for a US made EV. The Chinese EVs were, and still are, far more efficient and have more features than the US made EVs. US buyers of locally made EVs are being "ripped off", not by other countries (as is it often claimed in the current tariff debate) but by their own government and inefficient manufacturers. That "protection" comes at a price that is ultimately paid by the consumers.
It is ironic, that the land that worships the principles of "free enterprise" has to resort to "protectionism".
My thoughts.
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I'm in the US. The whole tariff argument to protect and encourage US manufacturing jobs seems unrealistic to me in the short term.
Tariffs may work in the long term, but that there's no way for US manufacturing to quickly increase production in the short term. Since production costs are likely higher here, that also means the price of goods will be higher. So the administration's claims of short term pain rings false to me.
The paranoid part of me feels that this is more a goal to grab money than to help US manufacturing.
Tariffs may work in the long term, but that there's no way for US manufacturing to quickly increase production in the short term. Since production costs are likely higher here, that also means the price of goods will be higher. So the administration's claims of short term pain rings false to me.
The paranoid part of me feels that this is more a goal to grab money than to help US manufacturing.
I will agree with much of what @OddRails has stated except that tariffs do not work in the long term - they invariably lead to higher prices (in both the short and long terms) and inefficiencies which often show up as poor quality products.
I also believe that the paranoid part of you may be correct.
I also believe that the paranoid part of you may be correct.
neville_hill
Well-known member
If you're in the USA, I'd have thought paying a bit more for Trainz is the least of your problems right now.
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