High Speed Trains In The USA?

TrainzAreTheBest12 said:
France is completely legit :cool:. Also, anyone ever been on a TGV? That would be one heck of ride.
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Sure, I've been on a TGV. It is fast, although one doesn't notice the speed until one looks out the window - then 200 mph IS pretty fast. Swedish high-speed trains are at a more modest 125 mph (but, like in many European countries, there are plans to build new higher-speed lines).

I have never been on an American train, though...
 
Ed: I'm glad that you admitted the Interstate Highway system helped create jobs and the economy..The HSR is no different then the Interstate..It too will create jobs and help the economy..
 
No Bob, not even comparable to the economic boost of the highway system. You have to be reasonable and accept the fact that prior to the interstates moving freight from here to there was not as efficient as it was after. HSR only moves people here to there, and won't have the same impact in our economy. Our transportation system has evolved the way it has because of the highways, not in spite of them.
 
So basically what your saying is, trains couldn't handle the economy without cars, trucks, planes, buses, or ships. I couldnt agree more. Trains are very efficient, but the process is kinda slow compared to other forms of transport. Did you know that almost everything in your house has been on a train at least once? Cuz I didn't. :confused:
 
TrainzAreTheBest12 said:
So basically what your saying is, trains couldn't handle the economy without cars, trucks, planes, buses, or ships. I couldnt agree more. Trains are very efficient, but the process is kinda slow compared to other forms of transport. Did you know that almost everything in your house has been on a train at least once? Cuz I didn't. :confused:
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I'm only saying that while freight trains are an integral part of our economy and transportation infrastructure, passenger trains are not. At one time they were, and would have continued to be, but our nation chose a more efficient and economical passenger transportation system.
 
Ed: This Nation Chose this path because of the oil companies..We had a nice Light Rail system in most of the cities in this land, and they did away with them..The oil companies and wealthy oil Executives Lets push for cars they use our products and we can make more money..So Transportation companies around the U.S.A. jumped on the band wagon and bought Buses why? Well the oil companies told them to and they would see that they were taken care of Monotarily..
 
While it's easy and convenient to blame the "oil companies" for every ill the nation has, the fact is capitalism, and the free market will dictate the course of any transportation system. The profit margin of the "oil companies" is one of the lowest of any industry in the US; they accumulate record profits through volume, not pricing. Is that so surprising? They do not receive any tax breaks that other major industries do not receive and they are not operating outside of the restraints of law. If they were, then they should be prosecuted as any other criminal enterprise should be prosecuted. The "oil companies" remain the rhetoric target of those that don't understand capitalism and the free market.

Of course they support the use of their products through automobiles and buses, wouldn't you? The question is; if there is something better in the terms of efficiency and price...well; where is it? Competition is the lifeblood of commerce. Until there's a better transportation option, the "oil companies" will reign supreme.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed in the way you continue to regurgitate the rhetoric you have been fed. Big Oil is not the problem, except to those that refuse to do the research and chose to follow the party line.
 
Euphod said:
....our nation chose a more efficient and economical passenger transportation system.
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:eek: Hi Ed, I assume you include environmental and social externalities in this definition of "efficient"? I see little that's efficient in thousands of cars piling into urban areas every morning, emitting large quantities of carbon dioxide and noxious fumes, many of them carrying only one person, which then have to be parked and the person then take some form of public transport anyway in order to get to their final destination. This may be the 'American way', but it's hugely wasteful and part of a lifestyle that's helping to kill the planet.

The problem with markets is that they often fail and are distorted by producer (corporate) interests. 'Public' goods exist where markets would underprovide because external costs and benefits are not properly represented on the balance sheet. 'Public' transport is a case in point. The United States has gone down an extreme capitalist road (literally!) and had ended up, almost alone amongst developed countries, with very poor passenger railways and a corresponding over-reliance on cars and airlines - the two worst environmental options (and not very good socially either if you've been stuck in a traffic jam or subject to an intimate body search on the way into an airport!)

On a side-note, China, now the United States' largest creditor and competitor nation, is investing heavily in high speed rail. With a population three times the size and a similarly large land mass as the US, they do capitalism very successfully, but without the ideological baggage that seems to be holding America back!

Paul
 
TrainzAreTheBest12 said:
I don't care what anyone says. We(USA, UK, England) have something not many other countries have, and that, is Freedom!
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MMM I do not know where the freedom bit was when I had to stand with my hands up in the air and expose all my dangley bits to some person looking at an Xray screen. This was SF airport.
 
TrainzAreTheBest12 said:
I don't care what anyone says. We(USA, UK, England) have something not many other countries have, and that, is Freedom!
Click to expand...

MMM I do not know where the freedom bit was when I had to stand with my hands up in the air and expose all my dangley bits to some person looking at an Xray screen. This was SF airport.
 
I know it has been three months but what really killed intercity passenger rail was the airlines. The plane was back then represented the future. But now in this day and age people are now starting to look for cheaper ways of traveling and that is why Amtrak's NEC services are reaching new highs. And that is why Obama was a great choice because he saw that and is investing in the NEC. I know us systems may not be like a european HSR system but at least we are trying to be the best it could be. And American trains just have that certain style to it that makes it great to me. I cannot rail fan european trains just not the same.
 
amtrak2041864 said:
I know it has been three months but what really killed intercity passenger rail was the airlines. The plane was back then represented the future. But now in this day and age people are now starting to look for cheaper ways of traveling and that is why Amtrak's NEC services are reaching new highs. And that is why Obama was a great choice because he saw that and is investing in the NEC. I know us systems may not be like a european HSR system but at least we are trying to be the best it could be. And American trains just have that certain style to it that makes it great to me. I cannot rail fan european trains just not the same.
Click to expand...

Ugh, that alone would be reason enough to vote against him. Look, we all like trains here, but spending $1 trillion+ to support and actual-size version of our hobby is unrealistic even if the country wasn't beyond bankrupt. Add to that the fact that Amtrak is a poster child of government incompetence, and we literally would be better off burning that money or flushing it down the toilet. At least that wouldn't require endless operating subsidies.
 
RRSignal said:
Ugh, that alone would be reason enough to vote against him. Look, we all like trains here, but spending $1 trillion+ to support and actual-size version of our hobby is unrealistic even if the country wasn't beyond bankrupt. Add to that the fact that Amtrak is a poster child of government incompetence, and we literally would be better off burning that money or flushing it down the toilet. At least that wouldn't require endless operating subsidies.
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We wouldn't have to spend that much if the investment was made all along. There is even more money going into the highways and road bridges because of the decades of neglect. Just the other day my windshield got smashed by a piece of concrete. A truck ahead of me hit an expansion joint on Interstate 495. A piece of bridge flew up and cracked my windshield.

John
 
Euphod said:
While it's easy and convenient to blame the "oil companies" for every ill the nation has, the fact is capitalism, and the free market will dictate the course of any transportation system. The profit margin of the "oil companies" is one of the lowest of any industry in the US; they accumulate record profits through volume, not pricing. Is that so surprising? They do not receive any tax breaks that other major industries do not receive and they are not operating outside of the restraints of law. If they were, then they should be prosecuted as any other criminal enterprise should be prosecuted. The "oil companies" remain the rhetoric target of those that don't understand capitalism and the free market.

Of course they support the use of their products through automobiles and buses, wouldn't you? The question is; if there is something better in the terms of efficiency and price...well; where is it? Competition is the lifeblood of commerce. Until there's a better transportation option, the "oil companies" will reign supreme.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed in the way you continue to regurgitate the rhetoric you have been fed. Big Oil is not the problem, except to those that refuse to do the research and chose to follow the party line.
Click to expand...

Sorry Ed, I have to disagree;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

But saying any more would descend into politics which is too disgusting to consider.
 
John, the investments were made years ago. I live in Indiana where we have hundreds of miles of existing abandoned rail lines being ripped out. A small push in shortlines by the state using existing idled equipment would have been the giant leap to lay the foundation for high speed rail. Every little town here was built around a rail line.*
Sure, I can drive 40 miles to catch the old South Shore for the last 50 miles or so into Chicago. Why bother, pay parking fees, etc. when I'm already half way there.
Politicians and pie in the sky voters want shiny new trains. How many billions did we waste converting those old rail lines into paved bike trails? Seems to me that money could have been used upgrading those lines, buying used existing equipment and laying the basic infrastructure to make the shiny new high speed line more attractive. It might also breathe life into idled grain silos and small factories around here while getting semis off our main roads.
 
JCitron said:
We wouldn't have to spend that much if the investment was made all along. There is even more money going into the highways and road bridges because of the decades of neglect. Just the other day my windshield got smashed by a piece of concrete. A truck ahead of me hit an expansion joint on Interstate 495. A piece of bridge flew up and cracked my windshield.

John
Click to expand...

Maintenance of existing infrastructure and capital expense of an entirely new form of transit are two separate things. Maintaining and making slight improvements of the current NEC makes some sense. Rebuilding a new HSR system from Boston to Washington - a total waste.

It would have made more sense to first examine the operator - Amtrak - and determine if they were even capable of benefiting from capital improvements. Given Amtrak's rather (bleeped) call center and reservation system, probably not. Unfortunately, typical of big government, they throw money at issues rather than trying to determine why things aren't working.
 
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