Help converting bogeys to 2010 format

[tringate]

I have successfully converted the Frisco #1522 4-8-2 Mountain locomotive to TR2010 and it runs very well on my simulator. This engine was used as the source for the FEC #813 4-8-2 Mountain locomotive which I have also converted. It also runs very well on my simulator however when I attempt to convert the bogeys for the 813 engine and tender using the PEV tools and editing the config file I end up with bogeys that will not animate, and the engine rods are broken how they attach.

Here is the original config file for the main bogey for the 813. The package does not contain a .PM mesh so I copied the .IM file from the "Frisco" engine bogey and renamed it, but I end up with bogeys that do not animate.

kuid <kuid:104181:50002>
kind "bogey"
alias <kuid:79097:50002>
obsolete-table
{
}
description "FEC #813 main bogey"
trainz-build 1.5
category-class "ZB"
category-region-0 "US"
category-era-0 "1860s"
category-era-1 "1870s"
category-era-2 "1880s"
category-era-3 "1890s"
category-era-4 "1900s"
category-era-5 "1910s"
category-era-6 "1920s"
animdist 4.66
asset-filename "fec_813_main_bogey"
username "FEC 813 main bogey"
author "Bill Scott"
organisation
contact-email "*****************"
contact-website
license "This is a reskin of Shane (Cowboy) Permann's excellent
Frisco #1522 4-8-2 Mountain locomotive. Thank you Shane for permission to reskin and upload this rendition.
kuid-table
{
0 <kuid:79097:50002>
}

Another problem I noticed is the KUID used in the kuid-table. The working bogey kuid is <kuid2:79097:50002:1> not the one listed in the above config file.

Now I can just leave the bogeys as is and leave the warning messages about the progressive meshes not being supported, but being a pourist, I would like to fix the engine and tender the proper way and have the bogeys also error free.

What is the correct way to repair these bogeys?

My current thinking is to preserve the .BMP files from the 813, and then replace the entire package with those from the Frisco, then overwrite the .BMP files, make a few file name edits in the config file and rename a couple of the files.

But before I keep doing the "try this, try that" approach I thought I would ask the experts.

I'm not a content creator, but I do like to fix things that are broken.

 

[zatovisualworks]

Hi T_G,

Please note that you are dealing with an alias of an original.

So...

alias <kuid2:79097:50002:1>

kuid-table
{
0 <kuid2:79097:50002:1>
}

Forget about adding any mesh on an alias. This asset is going to use the original mesh with the textures on the asset. That's how it works.

As long as it is an alias, the warning message will remain. Nitpicking CM3! :hehe:

As for changing .pm into .im, use the PEV tool PM2IM in the original bogie.

An alias, as said above, never contains a mesh. PM2IM usually keeps untouched the .kin animation outcome.

Change the old Trainz 1.3 asset-filename system to the current mesh-table one:

mesh-table {
    default {
        mesh                    "fec_813_main_bogey.im"
        anim                    "anim.kin"
        auto-create                1
        animation-loop-speed            1
    }
}

Check that the animation .kin file in the original asset it's named anim.kin. If not so, -it is usually- type the correct name of the file on the config.txt

Hope it's helpful to you.

The self alias side of Alberte :wave:

 

[tringate]

Thanks for the guidance. I'm working on making those changes now to see if my bogeys will look and work properly.

I do have a question on the kuid though.

Is it necessary that whenever a asset is updated and the kuid gets a new version number, (like in this case the :1 at the end), all aliased assets must be found and changed?

Does CM do that automaticallyfor me?

One last question. When someone makes an asset like this, do they "clone" the asset they are copying, or do they use some other process? I understand they get permission from the original author to make such a copy.

The reason I ask is I am wondering what the difference is between "clone" and "aliase".

 

[zatovisualworks]

Is it necessary that whenever a asset is updated and the kuid gets a new version number, (like in this case the :1 at the end), all aliased assets must be found and changed?

Does CM do that automaticallyfor me?

It should and usually acts so. CM looks for kuid and kuid2. Sometimes there's an issue if you have both installed (kuid and kuid2) and the config.txt says just kuid, CM would use the latest version but...

One last question. When someone makes an asset like this, do they "clone" the asset they are copying, or do they use some other process? I understand they get permission from the original author to make such a copy. The reason I ask is I am wondering what the difference is between "clone" and "aliase".

• 'Clone' means a copy of all the asset, including meshes and everything. Of course, CM gives it your kuid number. This process is automatic if you use the 'Clone' MRB submenu.
• 'alias' means to create your own asset manually associating your asset containing reskinned textures of another asset with the mesh of the latter.
  • This has to be made manually by opening the original asset for edit in Windows Explorer.
  • Copying the whole folder
  • Pasting it elsewhere on your comp system
  • Changing the config.txt:
    • Your own kuid number
    • Adding the alias <kuid:XXXXXX:YYYYYY> tag
  • Working on the reskinning of the original textures
  • Removing meshes (not needed because of using the original ones)
  • Importing back your aliased folder into T10.

As you have been able to check, aliasing assets is being discouraged and not fostered by the latest versions of Trainz, warning that aliased assets can't be checked. So 'purists' :hehe: like you will have to live with that yellow stigma for years. :hehe:

This system of aliasing was very common in times of Trainz 1.3/UTC/T2004 since it saved repeating unnecessary meshes and creators were also very fond of it when someone asked for permission to make a reskin.

"Yes, no problem, make an alias", some creators used to tell the would-be reskinner. :hehe: That would preserve the honour and glory of both the original creator and the reskinner.

Of course, sometimes the answer was bluntly noooooooooooooooooooooo. "No clone, no alias, nothing. :hehe: How dare you to?"

Trainzy life has always been a reflection of what happens in life 1:1.

Finally, as for permissions:

• If you are using it for your personal lonely and surely better enjoyment, don't worry about permissions.
• For any other usage, please, contact the original creators first. There are many many nice people over here who still think that Raphael, Leonardo, Michelangelo, Turner, Goya, Picasso, Van Gogh, Cezanne, Dali, etc etc were real artists and this is just binary technology and training... reachable by many others.
• But please, always think that there's an unwritten trainzetiquette most of us try to follow to make the crazy world of Trainz more hospitable, enjoyable and funnier.

Ouuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhh, let me breathe in and out... :hehe:

If further questions, just take the forum handset receiver and phone us.

The long speeching side of Alberte :wave:

 

[tringate]

Your help has been very much appreciated.

I decided to move the meshes into the package for my FEC 813 engine just to make things simpler.

I found that by using the mesh table example:

mesh-table
{
default
{ mesh "fec_813_main_bogey.im"
anim "anim.kin"
auto-create 1
animation-loop-speed 1
}
}​

The bogey was animated even when the engine was standing still.

By removing the:

auto-create 1
animation-loop-speed 1

resolved this problem.

Will this cause some new problem having removed those two lines? I noticed in engines where the bogeys were not animated, those lines were not present.

Of course now I have a new question.

When I used CCP to edit and save the config file it automatically converted most everything for me. I discovered that in the old content packages everything was usually in the root folder of the package, but in the new format it was expecting to find the "body" and the "shadow" parts in sub folders and only the config file in the root folder.

It appears not to matter if you do that or not, but is it more correct to place these into sub folders now in TR2010?

I would not make an effort to go do that to all the content, but if I was working on a specific item, and that is the correct format, then I would place it into that format.

 

[zatovisualworks]

Of course now I have a new question.

When I used CCP to edit and save the config file it automatically converted most everything for me. I discovered that in the old content packages everything was usually in the root folder of the package, but in the new format it was expecting to find the "body" and the "shadow" parts in sub folders and only the config file in the root folder.

It appears not to matter if you do that or not, but is it more correct to place these into sub folders now in TR2010?

:hehe: CCP is a very tidy guy! Just a matter of tidiness and paths, dear T_G.

For this matter you can go by the CCP strict path and folder rules or... like many of us who still make and configure our models manually in the working folder outside Trainz... Put it on a root folder and never mind...

As long as the paths are typed correctly on the config.txt and you use the mesh-table container (-that's what Trainz neurons really read-) assets will work properly and everything will be found and read by Trainz. :hehe: You could have a subfolder /dress instead of /body, or /ghost instead of /shadow if you fancy that, making you CCP get

but working properly.

Of late some of us put the config.txt and the rest of the files in the same folder. We are lazy and don't want to write long mesh paths on the config.txt.

Surely CCP is right, but the rest of us too...

How can it be possible? Aaaaaaaaah, The Magical Mystery Tour of Trainz... :hehe:

Have a nice Friday, get ready for your trainzy weekend.

The magical mysterious side of Alberte :wave:

 

[PEV]

Your help has been very much appreciated.

I decided to move the meshes into the package for my FEC 813 engine just to make things simpler.

I found that by using the mesh table example:

mesh-table
{
default
{ mesh "fec_813_main_bogey.im"
anim "anim.kin"
auto-create 1
animation-loop-speed 1
}
}​

The bogey was animated even when the engine was standing still.

By removing the:

auto-create 1
animation-loop-speed 1

resolved this problem.

This does not seem right. You should have removed

animation-loop speed 1 and
anim "anim.kin"

In bogeys the game assumes if an animation named "anim.kin" is present that the bogey is animated, so you don't have to call it up.

If the auto-create 1 line is not present the bogey should be invisible and only made visible by a suitable script.

 

[tringate]

PEV,

Yes, you are correct. I made a error when I copied from the previous post to my reply and put the wrong two statements in.

So others reading this do not make the mistake in their simulator I wanted to reply and say I had made an error in this post.

Here is the actual data from the config file.

mesh-table
{
default
{
mesh "fec_813_main_bogey.im"
auto-create 1
}

shadow
{
mesh "fec_813_main_bogey_shadow.im"
}
}

I guess without the statement the shadow is invisible?

I looked at the engine asset and see that it has the following statement in the shadow part of the mesh table so I have added it to the bogey asset as well.

auto-create 0

Thank you for pointing out the error. In the future, I need to be more carefull when I post to make sure the information is correct.

Another thing I had happen when using the QuickShadow program to generate a good shadow is that because both .IM files are in the same root folder the program first made the shadow.im file for the body but then made a shadow file for the shadow itself and that file over wrote the first shadow file. I did not notice this problem when I ran the program and found I had a rather horrible shadow file once I looked at the engine in TR2010. Of course this does not happen if you have your shadow and body in individual folders. Well yes it does generate the shadow file for the shadow in it's folder, but since the name is not the same as what is in the config file it is not used. It just takes up space.

Once I saw what had happened, I went back and fixed several assets that had the same problem. Some I had not modified myself, so others are doing this same thing when making assets I guess.

I wanted to mention that "user error" so others can watch for it themselves.

 

[zatovisualworks]

shadow
{
mesh "fec_813_main_bogey_shadow.im"
}
}

Hi T_G,

If left so, shadow will appear when your showing shadow option is ticked on.

auto-create  0

should be left for assets needing scripts.

And yes, Peter is fully right ( Nobody doubted it, dear wise Pete) about...

In previous versions of Trainz, the following lines were used in the config.txt file -

anim anim.kin
animation-loop-speed 1.0

These are no longer required. Trainz automatically recognises the anim.kin file for the bogey. These lines if used in the config.txt will generate an error log message about incorrectly specified animation being ignored.

:hehe: I'm really getting older...

The needing-being-fixing side of Alberte :wave: